Ex re-writing our relationship to our child and everyone else.

[Peppasparty]

Why do narcissists re-write events? Is this because they believe they happened differently or do they actually know that they are lying. We share a child and our child says to me at times that daddy told me this happened like this. It’s a complete fabrication and he must know that he is lying. For example he showed our child my engagement ring and said that I gave it back to him so that he could show our child. This is not the truth what he did was forcefully remove it from my hand whilst shouting and swearing that I didn’t deserve the ring anymore.

He’s moved on and living happily which I find so difficult to understand considering the things he has done to me and previous girlfriends. Does he just lie to himself because a normal person would be eaten up. He also practices a faith, I don’t understand how he can sit and pray when he has done all these terrible things unless he really believes he has behaved well. Everyone knows shouting, screaming, pushing and throwing things at someone isn’t great and can’t be justified.

Because they cannot for a second be even slightly wrong, do not try to understand them or their motives instead arm yourself with how to handle it. There us going to be times you have to grit your teeth and bite your tongue from telling dc stuff but try remember the facts can sometimes hurt dc especially when having a manipulated input from elsewhere, be assured that your dc will see through it themselves one day.

So why not tell the real event but just say they deserved it if they can’t be wrong. They must know it’s wrong to have to change the event? Very confusing.

Not sure how old your child is,but I have a family member in a similar situation, the child was around 11/12 when this started happening.
She just said that daddy sometimes had problems remembering events, and if they were concerned with anything daddy told them, they should let her know, as she would never lie to them. And she has correct the father's version of events in an age appropriate way on several occasions. The child no longer blindly believes the father's version, and has said that daddy said this, but then said this and they both can't be true. So they are now able, to a degree, to see through the father's lies.

This is normal for them.

Their ego is so fragile that they just can’t ever be the bad guy or wrong in any situation. I’m told narcissists have a huge sense of entitlement - so they think they can’t be wrong and that they always deserve to have or do whatever it is that they want.

I think their moral code is very ambiguous and needs to flip often to keep them feeling they did no wrong. This must be very uncomfortable for them.

I believe even if they do know it’s a lie at first - they quickly forget the original circumstances and then believe their own lie - they must always blame someone else.

I think because they exist with this aching void in their ego, they are never truly, deep down happy. They are always chasing something to fill this void - but it never does. Because they are always searching for something, they often change their mind about what they want. One minute they have a list of reasons why doing X is a good idea, the next they have a different list of reasons why doing X is NOT a good idea. This constant changing of mind and facts makes rewriting history seem quite normal to them.

They are like a miser who never has enough gold - they want everybody’s love and admiration - always, constantly - and it’s never enough.

If you leave them, it tells the world they are less than perfect. They can’t bear this so you are the one at fault, you are the one who must be blamed and you therefore deserve punishment. Ergo - you deserve to be lied to.

As you can probably tell, I’m recovering from a long relationship with a narcissist. I don’t feel sorry for him (yet- I’m trying do), but god knows I wouldn’t like to be him or sit inside his head, it must be fucking awful in there.

There is nothing you can do about this so you need to get your head around it and find a way to support your child as they navigate a narcissist father.

I have been exactly where you are, with 2 kids. I won't deny that it was awful and there were many times when I felt like burning him to the ground because of his lies.

They will never change, and are incapable of taking their child's feelings into account.

I made a pact with myself to never say anything bad about him. I would listen to my children as they told me about whatever he had done/said, and would try to comfort them as best I could and deal with whatever it was in an age-appropriate way.

Hang on in there and learn as much as you can about narcissists and how they operate.

Narcs lie.
Why they lie, who really knows.
You need to warn your children that Daddy tells lies and not to trust him in this respect. Because narcs don't care who their lies hurt, including their children.

Exh told such shite with such gusto when he died 2 of our ds's got huge DAD tattoos.. I was actually physically sick when I saw them...
The man who didn't feed his dc.
Never kept them /their stuff clean. And who only stopped hitting them when disabilities took hold and he couldn't chase them upstairs.. Ime best dc have an idea their df is a cunt if he is one.. One day when my ds's are df's the truth will dawn. Left on a pedestal isn't healthy.

@Imgoingtobefree has it spot on.

I’ve come to regard my ex-narc as having a serious mental health issue, albeit a kind of upwardly-mobile one that I don’t feel moved to pity. It is abnormal, why he’s doing it. You can’t make it make sense because he has disordered thinking. All we know is that, as pp have said, they have to keep contorting reality and their moral baseline to ensure the character they’ve created for themselves is never at fault.

I don’t understand how he can sit and pray with a clear conscious. But then like you say he must be mental. If there is a god would they really let go all he has done. The worst beating his ex gf.

Because @Peppasparty for you and me to pray would be to connect with an authentic core of yourself, which relates to conscience and truth etc, and a continuous sense of identity (that identity which enables you to be reflective or morally accountable).

But narcs do not have that inside place I am talking about. They do not have a core self or an inner, consistent core.

My narc too has a set of extremely ‘moral’ seeming activities that seem to bespeak (to the public) deep conscience. It is just a performance, though.

I’m sorry that that is frightening, but you already know how frightening they are.

If there is a god I’m pretty sure they’d see this for what it is. There are plenty of descriptions of evil as a void, an emptiness, that seeks to fill itself with energy stolen from the good. To steal light to fill the darkness. I’m not religious, but the descriptions of evil are an uncanny match.

@Imgoingtobefree agree completely with everything you said. I divorced a man like that too 3 years ago after 22 years and two kids together. Our kids are now young adults and don't see or talk to him at all. None of them ever really trusted or liked him growing up but couldn't quite put their finger on why. As they have become adults they can see who he is much more clearly and we can now talk openly about him. I no longer try and protect him but instead I validate their feelings because I don't want them to have relationships as adults thinking what their dad does is in any way normal or acceptable.

Whenever they or I have tried to call him out on his manipulative and hurtful behaviour he just deflects and turns it around on us. He is always the victim. He even minimises being physically abusive towards our DD because he was abused much worse by his parents.

We have all been to therapy and have landed in that there is nothing more we can do for him. We can't change him so we can either just accept him as he is (we don't) or remove ourselves from his life. It has meant that his family don't want to have a relationship with the kids though so he is clearly spreading some horrible things even about the kids to make himself look like a victim.

It's quite liberating when you have made that decision and you no longer care what he is telling other people about you or the kids. But it's hard to get to that point before the kids are old enough to deal with it or understand what is going on.

A performance for who?

I believe it's a type of disordered thinking. They really do believe it in most cases. In the case of your ring, for example, it's possible that if he was really pushed, he might agree that he grabbed the ring from you, but he would still believe it was because it needed to come back to him.

My favourite example of the disordered thinking - vs outright lying - is the man who, post break up, is STILL angry that her family and friends were not inviting him to events and occassions. He still does not understand that no, he did not need to attend her father's 70th birthday party or her BFF's wedding. On the family events, it's because he seems to think that wherever his DC are invited, he should be too.

The thing is that he will tell anyone who will listen about it and if they express any disagreement, he gets more and more angry. The only plus side is that this particular issue was the thing that pushed a lot of people to see who he really was and to stop giving him "the benefit of the doubt". It's very very hard to believe he was as hard done by as he says he was when he's sending aggressive, sweary texts telling you that you had no right not to invite him to your party/wedding/child's christening etc.

That’s very entitled and delusional. I do not have anything to do with mine and Im NC apart from child arrangements re his contact. It’s bad enough he twists the past.

Please don’t waste any of your precious head space or time on trying to understand this

it’s hypocritical nasty bollocks

the fact your child brought it up to you suggests they knew it was crap
i would tell your child the truth or a reasonable version if it
but d keep a written document going where you write down your ex ‘s claim and then your full and complete un sugar coated version of events this can be for future reference if your child ever wants to know the full version

I would tell your ex you won’t bad mouth them and ask them to do the same ( maybe pointless but at least you have said it )

but defo stop waiting your life in raging and wondering and trying to rationalise this BS

Thats the issue with this kind of abuse, there is little evidence. I can’t prove he pushed me, threw things at me etc. I can’t prove the ring incident. It’s just him saying one thing and me saying another with me knowing the truth but with no evidence who’s to say. They win really because on the outside they are popular, wealthy, new relationship and part of faith group. I am the jealous ex making up stories (not that I say the stories) he’s got their first with his spin anyway. His family back him up despite his mum witnessing him verbally abusing me. I feel for our child.

The performance is to garner sympathy from whoever they need it from. They must be the main character at all times be that victim, hero, saviour…doesn’t really matter just as long as they’re the centre of attention and everyone is doing what the narc wants them to.

Everyone in their life is supporting character who needs to make them look good. Children by getting good grades/being excellent at football/being a brilliant thief or whatever the narc values. Wives/GFs by being gorgeous/keeping a fabulous house/doing exactly as he wants etc. You start acting outwith your role and breaking character you will be punished. That’s the phase you’re in at the moment. You will never get to the bottom of the why (e does it because he’s a narc) so don’t waste your energy on him. Concentrate on your DC because growing up with a narc for a parent can be brutal. I’d research how it can impact children so you can counter his impact (speaking from experience here!).

Your ring…were you married? Did you get divorced and was the ring valuable? Men don’t get to take the ring back. It’s a gift. You can keep it and sell it if you want to and if he’s taken it against your will then that’s basically theft.

@Peppasparty It's potentially outing so I won't give the details, but a more similar example to yours with this same man and woman was him doing something objectively AWFUL to her. Not physical abuse (although the police did subsequently tell her that it was illegal). He doesn't even deny it. He sent a message to another person about it in which he said some version of "she deserved it and perhaps she'll learn her lesson". He honestly, 100% thinks it was fine. He was, unsurprisingly, livid, when the police called him in for a chat about it.

Oh, and the religion thing is just something to make him look good. He won’t really believe it, he just likes the attention being a fine, upstanding member of the community gets him. His character has “Man of God, pious & religious” as part of the script.

Lots of narcissists are religious. Religiou is easy for them because they can make it fit their own view.

It's all about projected image to narcs. They will do and say almost anything to protect their image.
So the faith and praying isn't for spiritual means, it's because he wants to be seen as a moral and good man.
The ring story is to cover up his anger, violence and loss of control.
Every story they tell will be manipulated to make them the main focus of the story and to reinforce whatever image they want people to see.

So he is purposely manipulating our relationship so that he comes out as the victim and the hero to our daughter? I know that’s how I’m portrayed to his gf and family etc. It works as they all believe him. He did the same with me, I felt so sorry for him for a long time.

Not a good idea to say this to a child. They will end up unhappy and confused and insecure - the proverbial football between estranged parents.

That’s the issue. The things that they come home and tell me he has said are complete distortions of the reality. Where he is a hero and a victim of me. I was the victim of his abuse but if I keep telling our child they are going to be so confused. It’s my word against him. I have many horrible msgs etc but I would not share those with a child ever.