Ex re-writing our relationship to our child and everyone else.

[Peppasparty]

Why do narcissists re-write events? Is this because they believe they happened differently or do they actually know that they are lying. We share a child and our child says to me at times that daddy told me this happened like this. It’s a complete fabrication and he must know that he is lying. For example he showed our child my engagement ring and said that I gave it back to him so that he could show our child. This is not the truth what he did was forcefully remove it from my hand whilst shouting and swearing that I didn’t deserve the ring anymore.

He’s moved on and living happily which I find so difficult to understand considering the things he has done to me and previous girlfriends. Does he just lie to himself because a normal person would be eaten up. He also practices a faith, I don’t understand how he can sit and pray when he has done all these terrible things unless he really believes he has behaved well. Everyone knows shouting, screaming, pushing and throwing things at someone isn’t great and can’t be justified.

I’ve taught my children (aside from their ‘dad’) to think about how people make them feel — in their body as much as what they say. Is it ok to feel sad around the person? Can they tolerate different moods? How about when you don’t agree with them? That’s all you can do. Try and give your child a good radar and good taste in people. As they grow they will get a sense Dad isn’t quite normal.

Yup. Classic covert narcissist behaviour.

However, I've read that over time, as this behaviour becomes more and more entrenched and more and more difficult to defend, many of them really struggle in later life.

So, for example, we all felt terribly sorry for our friend's boyfriend whent hey first got together - he'd had a terribly abusive relationship, she'd cheated on him and then screwed him up financially. This meant he had to move in with her quite quickly and also that he struggled with trust issues. Aaah, we all said, he just needs to realise that things are better with you and time to get back on his feet.....

and then 15 years later, he wasn't back on his feet and he was accusing her of cheating on him etc etc.

And then he tried it on another woman. But she clocked it much more quickly because, I imagine, he was pitching her the whole, "I've been so unlucky with not one or two but three abusive relationships" that I imagine a part of her was a bit uncertain and then, and this is just a guess, I suspect that the very first time he did one of the many many shitty things that he does instead of being able to pitch it as, "I'm just really struggling' she probalby thought, "why the fuck haven't you dealt with this stuff you wanker" and tossed him out.

How could he possibly be living happily? People like him can’t do happiness. They literally can’t.

@Peppasparty - they make up stories and repeat to themselves till they genuinely believe their lie. You can show them proof that they are lying but they will still lie to themselves and anyone else who will listen....
They always have to be the victim or the good guy.....even when they the biggest arsehole.....😂

I've talked to my son about his friend's mum having a tricky relationship with the truth, that I don't think she means to lie, but she gets muddled, so he must always think for himself. It was interesting how that went in as something else came up that he said she'd said, and I asked him to cast his mind back to when he'd been in a situation like that, and did he think that was really what happened? And he said no, and since then applies more critical thinking to things he hears from her. So I was trying to tread a line between not being seen to badmouth her, but just getting him to think about things and he's very quickly noticing to take what she says with a pinch salt. I know this is different for you as it's their father and his behaviour has impacted you more directly. But just think where you can and use phrases like "now does that sound like something mummy would do?" And gradually help them learn to assess things, rather than pit your story against theirs?

Lots of wise words above though, and yes, don't let a desire to understand eat you up, it won't make sense to your healthy functioning mind. And I think narcissists are often drawn to empathy, so they know how to twist what should be your strengths.

If you don't keep telliing your children they'll only have his version, and that could really damagevtheirvrelationship with you.
The children need to know he is a liar and positions himself as the victim always because one day they will be on the receiving end of his complaints. When he tells his family the children don't ever visit him, forgot his birthday, never said thank you for whatever.
And the narc rage. They need to know about that, too.

‘Recollections may vary’ sums it up adequately I think!

I've read a lot about narcissists and in my opinion, yes they genuinely believe things happened the way the narcissist believe things should have happened. Otherwise they would need to take accountability for their actions and admit they may not be perfect.

This is exactly what happened for my kids. As soon as they started to clock the signs themselves I made sure I didn't dismiss them. I completely took their side and validated their feelings. I told them some of my experiences with their dad too but left out the worst ones. Once they understood who their dad was he could no longer lie and manipulate them and that made him panic so he went after me once again and when that didn't work he turned his family against the kids.

The kids are so much happier without him in their lives but they are at the advantage of being able to choose to see him or not as they are adults now. It's more difficult if they have to also spend time with him whilst they are realising who he is so your course of action will depend on the age of the kids.

@Peppasparty i would be telling the child the truth. dont let your ex lie about you!

He then tells them then what I say is a lie. He has a new gf and money and good health and his family all backing him up unlike myself now. It’s seems pretty pointless me saying what really happened, it’s just me.

Trying to understand him will tie you in knots. He doesn't think or function like most people.
Where we would feel bad about lying or manipulating, the narc doesn't feel that.

For example he showed our child my engagement ring and said that I gave it back to him so that he could show our child. This is not the truth what he did was forcefully remove it from my hand whilst shouting and swearing that I didn’t deserve the ring anymore.

"well yes, it went back to Daddy as he wanted it. I would have preferred to keep it as it was a gift, but he felt strongly about it so he took it."

I don’t think it’s because they do or don’t believe what they say, or that they believe a different set of circumstances happened. They simply prefer their narrative and will tell everyone the story they prefer.

Such as your ex telling your dc that you gave the rings back, it suits him better and he’s chosen to spin that story, probably believes it to a degree now also.

It’s difficult but you have to ignore this, don’t try to make everyone believe the truth, especially your dc. Tell them that’s not how you remember it, but you need to decide if it’s a hill you’re going to die on, and does it benefit your dc to know the truth. They will work him out eventually and if they want to know they can ask you when they are old enough. Age appropriate answers are your friend in these circumstances

Your child doesn't have to bring that information back to their dad. It's just for you and them to know. There will most likely come a time when they are confused by their dad's actions towards themselves when they are older and it's good for them to know that they can come to you when it happens and you get it.

My mother is a classic narcissist & my father enables her. Her behaviour sounds very like your ex's, she also rewrites history and ends up being surrounded by fields of roses while everyone else must have misunderstood. As a child, and now as an estranged adult from them, I would have really benefited from someone who had a constant version of things. He's not doing it to her yet, but it's inevitable. As soon as she starts to step outwith his accepted norm, he'll do it to her too. All you can do is present your version or say 'well that's not quite how I remember it.'
The faith thing? Very much public vs private persona. He goes to mass/synagogue/wherever. He does whatever it is for charity. Oh look, he's a good upstanding citizen. He probably doesn't do it because he believes in it, but because it's what you do to be a good citizen.

Thank you for the backup.

I don't believe in badmouthing your ex to the children. But children really need to be clued in if one of their parents is a narc so that they learn how to recognise and deal with the lies and drama.

I completely agree. The line between badmouthing and being honest is actually really thick and easy not to step over. And this is true whether we're talking narc behaviour or just wanker, entitled prat.

I was in this situation as a kid except with 2 narcissist parents and never knew which to believe (usually they were both lying).

Narcissists lie and lie and lie. They rewrite history. They have to look like they are the best and the other person was flawed/wrong. In many cases I feel the Narcissists genuinely believes what they are saying because they truly believe they are superior beings who are never wrong.

My friend's ex behaved appallingly, had an affair then when she forgave him (he actually wanted the marriage to end because he was bored with her) he decided she was a bully and emotionally abusive, had given him a breakdown etc. He basically made her so unhappy and gaslit that she started the divorce and he went around being all poor me, she's ended the marriage and I'm mentally ill etc. He actually wrote a self help book describing her as a narcissist. I think he actually believes his own hype.

If you want to know what a narcissist is guilty of doing, listen to what they accuse others of. Projection, projection and more projection. Do they know they're lying? Yes, but their pathological desire to be viewed as without fault and the 'victim' in any given scenario overrides any conscience about dishonesty.
Your ex is playing a dangerous game. My mother re-wrote history when my parents divorced and painted my father in the most negative way imaginable. I was 8. My dad, to his eternal credit, never said one bad word about her. I grew up resentful at having to listen to her vicious tales about my dad and she was still banging on about it when I was in my late 20s, even though she was in her 3rd marriage by then. She did it once too often and I cut all contact with her.

Imgoingtobefree has described it perfectly!
I am currently going through a divorce with one. It’s awful, you have my sympathy OP.

I think you should try and get some therapy to help you deal with your ex-husband. A therapist would help you with your response to his lies and distortions of the truth and how to frame it to your daughter.

They need to convince themselves that their story is true to justify how badly they treated you and still treat you and to get supply off their new friends or partner, they need to be the hero or victim.

Read 'it's not you' by dr ramani

Ps I have one of these baby daddies too you have my empathy xx