Was this emotional abuse?

[LucyLou96]

I broke up with my ex of many years 3 months ago. Logically I know the answer is yes, but what I'm struggling to comprehend is the severity of it and keep downplaying it to myself. Here are some instances:

I was lying on his bedroom floor crying and he became more concerned with his parents hearing it and was fed up with me being upset and not telling him why, and even though I told him not to touch me he grabbed me and picked me up aggressively and put me onto the bed to try and make me calm down.

When my depression was bad he'd tell me my moping around was making him miserable. One time he said me wanting to end my life made him want to end his too. Another time he said that me being suicidal was me saying I wanted to leave him.

Sometimes when I expressed a desire to self harm he would threaten to take away things like days out to make me not do it.

He told me that he was worried me being so shy (I'm neurodiverse) would cause his friends and family to dislike me.

He once said that he doesn't know if he should stick around in this relationship if I just end up killing myself.

One time we had an argument late at night and he said he was fed up with me acting how I was (miserable due to being in chronic discomfort/pain) and made me feel guilty for crying, but wouldn't let me go downstairs so he could sleep. Instead he lay in bed listening to music to block out the sound of my crying

Another time I was keeping him awake by crying, he kicked and pushed me in bed and grabbed me and shouted at me to just stop.

He had a go at me to 'find a solution' for being shy around his family, and got mad when I said there may not be one because I'm autistic and can't help it, then we had a huge argument which lasted two days and he told me that I was making it all about myself instead of how he feels by having to think of reasons to his friends & family why I'm shy (I refused to let him tell them I was autistic at the time)

When I was crying late at night he said if I kept him up by crying and he had to drive home on only 4 hours sleep he'd be very pissed off with me, but then went on his phone and did not respond to me when I told him why I was crying

One time when I was overwhelmed and had been scratching to self harm, then tried to stop myself by holding onto the bed to give my hands something to do, and he got angry with me for keeping him awake. He didn't comfort me when I cried, then when I tried to seek comfort from him by snuggling up to him he kept pushing my head away

When WFH, during a work call I had an anxiety attack and was crying on the floor as I got so worked up about my part during a weekly meeting. He shouted at me how I should just quit if I can’t handle the job and get a lower paying less stressful job. I felt even worse so I crawled into the spare room so he couldn’t see me crying anymore as I didn’t want to make him more pissed off with me

When we were struggling to put a piece of furniture together, whilst I had covid, he got annoyed with me. He called me useless, but wouldn’t let me help, then told me I should at least do something useful. He said things like: "Get out of the way, Shut the fuck up, Whatever princess wants, Do something useful for once, Useless, You’re not helping"

I think everything has become so normalised to me that I struggle to see my own situation, so I'd really appreciate some outsider's opinions on what I've described. Thanks in advance

Was about to say this – therapists don’t (or shouldn’t) diagnose third parties in their absence based on second-hand information

It must have been incredibly hard for him dealing with you crying all the time but he shouldn't have kicked you.

It was my idea to show her texts, she only looked because I wanted to show her to better understand situations that happened and even then she double checked if I was okay with it.

She didn't diagnose him she simply said he is displaying narcissistic traits.

It is helping me to stop hating myself for being previously suicidal and causing what I believed was every argument. Because every time I expressed feeling suicidal it would end with my ex arguing with me and me having to apologize for feeling that way and making HIM feel upset.

Ok, you didn't mention the stuff in your last paragraph before but it sounds like splitting was the right choice

Then you have your answer. I wonder why it felt important to get the views of Mumsnet posters as well. Perhaps it is hard to get your head round it.

Depression, suicide and self harm are very difficult to handle in a partner. Since you are the primary ‘support’ and generally a partner is thought of as a big factor in the happiness or contentment of someone’s life, if your partner displays constant distress it’s hard not to take it personally. You were both very immature. Your behaviour was disruptive very difficult for a partner to handle well. He handled it badly and yes he was abusive in some of the things he did. You should not have been in a relationship at the time and one of your mistakes was not realising this and getting out of the situation sooner.

I don’t think a person in their early 20s can be expected to handle the mental health issues you described. Did you have any professional treatment back then? If your symptoms have gone untreated all this time I imagine he is overwhelmed and suffering from compassion burn out.

If you have had professional treatment I am surprised they didn’t advise that you were not best placed to be in a relationship. And that you shouldn’t have been staying at his parent’s house overnight when an episode of crying was a possibility .

So no, I don’t think what you have described is emotional abuse. I think you have been failed by the mental health service and he has too, by default.

In children we call that behaviour a tantrum.

Even autistic adults can recognise that isn't normal op, your behaviour is negatively affecting him, could be seen as manipulative and abusive.

Most people on this thread seem weirdly antagonistic towards OP and I don't get it. Crying when upset is not an unusual behaviour for a young woman and you don't need incredible powers of empathy to deal with it in a more appropriate way than this boyfriend managed. And if you are genuinely thinking about killing yourself then talking about it with the people closest to you is a healthy thing to do, it's not manipulative in the least.

I had therapy on two separate occasions whilst in the relationship, a year of off and on sessions with my university counsellor then CBT with an NHS therapist a year later due to the significant mental health issues I was experiencing and how it was affecting the relationship. We both agreed to get help because he too would threaten suicide or to jump off the roof or out of a window or crash his car during arguments. My mistake was not telling my therapists these facts about him because I was afraid they'd tell me to break up with him (rightly so) and back then I did not want to do that despite the toxicity of the relationship.

I had months of sessions and he didn't even bother to call the doctors, when I suggested I could call on his behalf he refused.

Later down the line he said if I couldn't handle his angry outbursts where he would throw objects and break stuff then I should break up with him as he couldn't control it.

He sounds like he couldn't cope with your extreme depression OP. That doesn't make him emotionally abusive. However constantly crying, threatening self harm and suicide can be manipulative and controlling behaviour so on the surface it appears he was overwhelmed by your emotionally abusive behaviour.

Thankfully you are no longer together.

I can't edit my above post re your behavior being 'tantrum-y'.

I'd not read the massive drip feed that your ex then went on to display some absolute abusive behaviours towards you.

That still does not mean that your behaviour was unacceptable from your op. Telling your dp repeatedly that you wish to kill yourself is abusive. Putting pressure on them to support you while you feel like this is abusive. Kicking and screaming and lying on the floor is manipulative at best. You should have sought medical and professional mh support at that time and not relied on your dp to do this - this is not normal in a relationship.

I would have walked away in his shoes op. And you should have walked away if he was abusive to you at that time and afterwards. It's not always that simple though.

You need professional support before you enter into another relationship - even if it's only recognise what a GOOD, HEALTHY relationship looks and feels like.

I think you were both locked in a relationship where you abused each other.

Your inability to emotionally regulate at all, keeping him awake with loud crying, threatening suicide even after a fun day etc - incredibly high drama and impactful, and would make anyone feel shaken and agitated; and his aggressive reactions. You didn’t deserve his reactions but the whole situation, including your contribution, was mutually toxic.

It’s best you’re apart and it’s best you pursue more therapy. In the end we all need support from others sometimes but that is never enough unless we first learn to take responsibility for our own emotions. It’s hard at first but you can do it @LucyLou96 Good luck.

You were both abusive. He should have been strong enough to leave you years ago.

It is devastating to hear that a loved one is suicidal. Absolutely devastating. Of course it doesn’t excuse him attacking you but he will have had huge feelings about it. It wasn’t just about your feelings.

Your therapist confirmed he was narcissistic and abusive from some texts without context and your version of events?
No reputable therapist would comment this way on a third party - find a new one.

I also don't understand the desperation to prove that he definitely was abusive? Focusing on this isn't helping you move forward, but neither is failing to accept that your behaviours weren't acceptable either.

I've been seeing my therapist for 6 months and given her extensive accounts of situations that have happened and shown many texts.

I've never said my behaviours were 'acceptable' but to say that I'm abusive for telling a partner I feel suicidal is outlandish and ridiculous.

I don't understand why commenters are so adamant on villainizing me.

Ah yes, saying 'I can't do this anymore, I want to hurt myself and end my life', such an abusive thing to say to a partner.

I have had this discussion over suicide. When it comes up on a TV discussion the advice is - tell a friend or loved one, don’t hold it in.
A lot of people do hold it in, and when they pass away their loved ones can be genuinely shocked.
It is also shocking that the first port of call on the NHS website is to ring Samaritans. A great organisation, but not the same as trained MH professionals.
There is a differences between being suicidal, and divide ideation, too.
Most of us are going to struggle if a loved one tells us they are suicidal. We feel helpless. And sadly people do turn away because they can’t cope.
I read recently that Caroline Flack’s mother is angry that her friends didn’t do more to help her. That’s absolutely not fair, even though as a mum she is grieving.
I think the OP here is clearly unwell and should not be in a relationship right now. But to be fair to her she does recognise that.
The young man in question is also unwell and sounds exceptionally volatile.
I feel for OP in that she wants to be loved, she clearly wants to be cared for, but her current state and diagnosis means she struggles with things we take for granted.
But looking to put together a case against someone means you don’t engage in self reflection and that’s what improves your wellbeing. It doesn’t mean ignoring the wrongs done by this boyfriend, but looking at what makes you want to cry to this level, of constantly move back to feeling suicidal, these are the things in therapy to investigate and find new and better ways of coping,

OP, the fact is that the relationship is over now. What you are left with is yourself and the chance to look at how you might have contributed to the toxic relationship you were in, and how you might find different ways of being in future.
Sometimes it is a lifesaver for a woman to be assured by other women that she was being manipulated by a man and her head was messed with until she didn't know which way was up, and that none of it was her fault because this man was deliberately and cleverly setting out to destroy her sense of herself. We see this on Mumsnet sometimes.
However, from what you've shared here, I don't get the impression that being assured that this was the case, will necessarily help you move on. What is more likely to help is looking at how you were thinking, feeling and behaving with this man; looking at it carefully, with your therapist. We don't know you or your ex so we can only give you our impression of what happened. For what it's worth, this is mine.

That is still not ideal even if she isn't purporting to diagnose him formally. If it's a therapist that you feel is helping you I don't want to shake your confidence in speaking to her because you need to speak to someone. but she's only heard your side, your context to the messages and shouldn't really be suggesting mental health traits or diagnoses in his absence. Certainly not in this delicate situation. It's not appropriate or necessary.

Anyone can sound like they have traits of most personality disorders in a given set of circs. Narcissism is a pretty popular one that comes up. I would suggest that potential traits on his side shouldn't have come up at all.

What are her qualifications? Is she a counsellor or a therapist?

Yep agree. It’s clear the OP’s severe MH issues at the time placed an enormous amount of pressure on the other person. OP has come back since with various other details, although it’s not clear why these other examples weren’t mentioned in the OP. I’m just responding to the OP here and the question asked in the OP.

The examples given do not indicate a pattern of emotional abuse, they suggest a relationship under enormous strain from the extreme MH issues the OP was experiencing at the time.

OP self reflection is your key to greater happiness here.

You want to villainise your ex, but that could give you a place to park your thinking, to stick in victim mode and have an excuse to avoid further self-exploration.

He was abusive to you and that wasn’t ok. Your behaviour sounds incredibly difficult to deal with. Both things can be true. So focus on unpicking your stuff.

Jesus christ you sound hard work OP. You have clearly made your mind up he was abusive so why are you here looking for affirmation? You won't accept any counter point, which I imagine played into issues in your relationship too. Just be single and take at look at yourself for a while.

Exactly - it's not that there's a Goody and a Baddy in this story.
Your ex certainly behaved badly towards you at times, and maybe as your therapist suggested, he had some narcissistic traits. But that's not all that was going on. To be honest I think the best thing he could have done was end the relationship much sooner, because he couldn't help you, and your constant, uncontained distress must have put an unbearable strain on him.
I do hope that you find something that helps and can move to a steadier place.