Drifting apart from DM. I never saw this coming

[Flyg]

I used to have the easiest most natural feeling great relationship with my mum and i never thought that would change.

Im mid 40's now and i would say this change has been happening probably over the last 4 years or so, but its getting harder now to spend time together for me (i honestly dont know if shes feeling it to the extent i am).

I do think she has been captured a lot by stuff she's seen on youtube. She does repeat some questionable right wing stuff and said she voted Reform last time, despite always being a labour voter before that. I'm not sure how much this has played a part in me finding it uncomfortable to talk to her. She bigs up Trump and Musk a bit and even Tommy Robinson FGS. She also claimed people were arrested for "nothing" following the Southport riots - which i just feel is surely a stretch. I dont really want this to become a political debate, its just all of these viewpoints are brand new from her and in the past we have always pretty much seen eye to eye politically and as everyone knows political disagreements are hard to navigate, much like religious ones.

She also realised over the last few years that one her her sisters was a total narc (she really, really is, ive always seen it) and i feel like because she didnt know what her sister was doing for so many years, with gaslighting and making her feel bad - its like she is now on the defensive with everyone, myself included.

I sense an anger under the surface with her a lot of the time too.

I suppose im wondering if anyone else has hit an unexpected sticky patch with their mum and hoping there might be some advice or wise words for me in managing this? Its making me lose sleep lately as my tummy is a bit in knots when she is here. She does lots to help with the kids and ive always appreciated that and still do, its just that spending time together now has started to feel really fraught.

No advice OP, but that sounds so tough. It must be a big adjustment for her about her sister, are they still in contact?

No she has gone NC which is a decision i think is 100% right for her.

We are in a similar position with my MIL who has also fallen down a YouTube conspiracy hole. Fortunately we are able to limit our contact because any attempt by DH to challenge her view with evidence (“they’ve banned dogs
from parks in Wales cos of the Muslims you know”) just ends in her being very defensive and it’s all very uncomfortable. She’s currently sharing stuff about grooming gangs and I fell down my own rabbit hole looking up the person she was sharing it from. I was on the brink of posting a counter view and then realised it’s pointless and exhausting. Better to just hide/mute her and check in when we have the energy. But I know that’s easier for me as one step removed - if it was my own mum I’d find it much more difficult to detach.

Has anything triggered this slightly odd political shift? My mum died before my dad, but to be honest, if he had died first, this was a worry for me - that mum would be far more likely to go down rabbit holes and conspiracy theories. Dad was always there to tell her to stop being so silly. I know an older lady who isn't terrible on this, but the COL crisis has really impacted her and her family, exacerbated by some bad health for one of her DC that wasn't, at first, treated well via the NHS, and it's made her a lot quicker to buy into the anti immigrant rhetoric.

I think depending on your relationship can you either gently challenge her on some of these statements or just direct conversations away from the political?

Can you have a frank conversation and tell her that you think it would be best if no political views are shared by either of you as you don’t agree and can’t see each other’s viewpoints, but nevertheless you love her very much and don’t want anything to come between you? I am in a similar position with a family member who is very sensitive to perceived criticism of his views (ie someone sharing another view) but has no problem at all spouting his. I feel like this conversation is coming for me too.

Actually, to add to my post above - has your mum got on social media recently? A lot of people - nothing to do with age - really struggle to understand how to filter social media content. I got into a debate just last week with someone on FB who posted an article that led with a 100% fake claim (that is super super easy to check - think "The NHS does not provide chemotherapy anymore") but even when she acknowledged the claim was fake, she still thought the article made lots of "interesting points and presented some interesting research" about the underlying issue. How could she believe a word from that article is beyond me.

I would try to ignore or skate over the controversial stuff and change the subject to something innocuous, and sometimes compliment her (that colour really suits you!). If you don't engage with someone then they can't argue with you! Also, when you've had enough, leave. I used to visit my mum in another city but two hours was long enough each time.

I have said i dont want to talk about world affairs anymore as it worries me a lot at the moment. This was in response to her saying "Kier Starmer has promised boots on the ground, what are your thoughts on conscription" - an idea which, as someone with 2 children, makes my blood run ice cold. So i told her i missed how we used to be and didnt want to spend our time talking about things we cant control. She did reply "say no more" and agree to stop, but then a week later she described choosing to undergo the transition from female to male as "that one next step" for lesbians - which cuts right to the core for me, ive had same sex relationships in the past, she knows this, and a good proportion of my closest friends are lesbians. That comment made me feel sick, that all gay women would change sex if they could, just such an awful view to hold.

Then a week later I mentioned that the pay grade above me at work got a much higher salary than i think some of them merit (i work in the public sector) and she started gleefully telling me how Elon Musk has emailed everyone in the US government asking them to tell him 5 things they did last week or they'll be fired.

So it feels like shes going all in on the "everyone who works in government does nothing" myth as well - not saying there isnt waste in government by the way, but its not as bad as is made out by some people.

I just feel like i dont know when the next barb is coming. And I wouldnt care at all if anyone else held these views, its just heartbreaking that its all coming from my own mum and shes just so confident in all she says.

I don't talk to my mum about politics, race or religion. Our views are very different and she watches a load of bollocks on facebook etc. She also seems to need to add the person's colour eg, this black woman served me in the shop today. I call her out on it, my kids call her out on it. She never used to be like that. My step dad also pulled the n word on a day out with the kids, they were livid.

...and its all hateful and angry stuff, she doesnt seem to enjoy anything anymore, she just absorbs all the reasons to be angry and bitter and i dont know why? No attempt at being happy or positive, and when she is like that i even feel like shes faking it. I know her well enough to know when shes plastering on a fake smile. Shes so short tempered. Its all really awful and im spiralling now as i type so i will stop for a bit. But thank you for all the replies because this does actually feel very therapeutic.

Yes she scrolls through reels on youtube and I feel like they are 90% GB News/similar. Not saying GB news is the worst thing in the world but they are absolutely, 100% NOT a balanced news broadcaster.

Does she have stuff going on in her ife that gets her out and about adn engaging in the "real world"? I think this sort of thing is particularly prevalent when people find themselves isolated - I don't mean stuck at home necessarily but perhaps not being out and about in the same way. DH's cousin is a good example - she lives in another country in a small city and within that city she has a life that is very much contained within a very small area - she literally does not travel beyond that. She's busy enough within that, but she's just not exposed to AMYTHING or anyone outside of her immediate comfort zone, ever. And on top of that, based on the fact that she posts and shares things (mostly just resharing other posts) on facebook multiple times a day, I can only assume she spends a lot of time online too.

Just saw your response to me - yes, this can be difficult. Try sending her links to more balanced news sources. This not only expands her mind but also will start to shift her algorithms so that she doesn't get quite so much of the echo chamber effect. Also news about different things - if you have a chat about hair styles for example, send her a link to a fun youtube video with hair styles or an article you spotted about celebrity hair stylists so that again, her algorithms will start to shift.

It's a bit of a fake approach but shifting those algorithms and mindset can be helpful.

My DAunt started coming out this type of "othering" paranoid talk about anyone who was slightly different - she just lost her filter and spouted idiotic embarassing crap in public. I stopped offering to take her out for coffee/lunch as she would start loudly exclaiming right wing stuff. Looking back I do think it was the start of her dementia and it alienated her from friends and her remaining family.

@Sunat45degrees she retired 4 or 5 years ago and it has got worse since. She does have a few different friend groups and does 2 school pick ups for me per week and runs my dad around a bit as he doesnt drive. So I feel like she has a bit going on and isnt just sat online all day long. I dont know how much politics comes up with her friends.

I think the sister realisation did rock her to the core. But its so sad if thats made her angry and mistrusting of everyone and everything.

Some of that sounds very odd.
Since she is interested in politics, have you maybe ever tried sharing any alternative online/social media material with her- not commenting but just sending a link and saying ‘hey this is interesting’? Maybe something like Gary’s Economics, or Jimmy Dore, on YouTube - some of their stuff might be kind of aligned with her thinking in some ways but from a very different perspective. Just to provide an alternative to GB news etc?
Sadly I think it is very difficult to maintain a good relationship with someone who has - & expresses- strong views of which you disapprove.

I think it's the "smallness" of the world if she's recently stopped working. Same with DH's cousin - she works, she has family, she does stuff... but it's all within about a 2 mile radius with exactly the same people day in and day out.

Try my tip about changing her algorithms and/or not arguing directly. You can be subtle about it. eg you could send her this: https://news.sky.com/story/how-donald-trump-has-upended-millions-of-lives-in-his-first-50-days-in-office-13323230

Or, like I said, if you both like cats, send a few cat videos or siilar!

Its making me lose sleep lately as my tummy is a bit in knots when she is here.

Is that the only time you see her OP when she is at your house? Do you do anything together, as in going out shopping, cafe's, meals out, bingo, holidays etc etc? It does sound like everything that has happened is making her feel angry then everything she is reading is feeding that dynamic, it also sounds like she is almost baiting for an argument.

Are you sure she isn't feeling resentful of just being round when doing the school pick up and you don't do anything else together? It is so easy to get caught up in our busy lives, but not having a job anymore and suddenly being NC with her sister who has basically brainwashed her all her life has probably left her feeling a bit lost and despondent. I have to remind myself to make time for people in a meaningful way other than what i do for them or what they do for me otherwise thing start to feel purely transactional.

It sounds like she needs something to look forward to or at least enjoy, is there anything you could do to help with that do you think?

I don’t have any real advice but I’m going through a similar shift with my mum. It’s been for the last 2 years I would say and I have gone low contact, I don’t think she has noticed because I am mirroring her effort.
She never texts or calls me anymore, she doesn’t bother with my child at all, she’s never been to my house. She is completely engrossed in negativity, believes everything she reads online and would rather stare at her phone for the most part but I have felt like I’ve grieved for our relationship enough now. She can miss out.

I'm wondering if broken record technique would help to reinforce the message. And then change the subject.

I agree with other posters who say about people with certain right wing views being very vocal! And even saying suff about how they feel censored. I don't share my views with people uninvited.

This sounds so upsetting. I hope you find a way to navigate this.

Edited this post away because this thread is already ridiculously outing.

Its not just her helping me when we see each other, to summarise.

I am 💯in the same boat with my mum and
Our relationship is very similar to what you describe. Previously so close and now so weird and fraught ... which by the way is exactly the word for it.

my mum is obsessed with X and sends some really out there stuff to the family WA

She is also massively oversensitive and ask things so strangely or turns up at our house and is already annoyed / gives curt answers.

i just dont get it.

She's very vocal about her wanting to be helpfulness with kids... but the helpfulness is very limited, very weird and very difficult these days.
Something that should be as simple as can you do X?
Yes / no / yes but...
is instead hard work and shes either sooo awkward about it
OR
she says yes but its a 15 min chat with load so of confusion due to forced extra help she doesnt actually want to provide.

Her: so will i collect dd?
Me: no like i said I'll pick her up but could you just watch her for 2 hours and ill do bedtime
Her: are you sure? Blah blah ill bring a dinner
Me: no you dont need to
Her are you sure? Blah blah ( offended tone)
Me: (conciliatory) okay do you know what dinner would be great actually thanks so much i love you. Thank you thank you
Her: will i pick dd up too?
Me 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ you dont have a fucking car seat

So i trust she will actually bring normal food and then she turns up on the day 20 mins late with something insane like (true story) a spag bol but she added gravy juice and it has pieces of potato and turnip it in. When it comes up she'll say "oh i dont know what you lot like to eat 😵‍💫 so i made spag bol but then when it was cooked decided to add in potato/gravy. It tastes awful doesnt it? It's not nice at all. Its bad isnt it?..."
And dh and i have to go " nooooo hmmm so yummy. You are amazing" and choke it down while i frantically scrabble around to find food for the kids who will not touch it.

Orrrr i ask her to arrive at 10.30 so we can comfortably leave at 10.45... she arrives at 10 and is visably angry we havent left by 10.10 but when i try and ask whats wrong she tells me shes fine

I am at the point i now use paid childcare and if/when she is mortally offended and makes "hurt" faces like it cuts her deep but i cant face how fraught and weird a normal easy conversation is. It makes me feel terrible inside.

if i am telling her about something difficult (struggling with poor sleep and baby annnd sickness) she CANNOT respond to what i am saying with anything resembling empathy for me or kindness. She will say "that must be hard for your DH... pooooor dh. How is he?" or " you need to stop trying to control everything." Or she will just say a random statement totally unrelated to what i am telling her "oh did i tell you aldi have nice soft fruits this week"
😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫🤯
When i explain it hurts my feelings and why can she just say "awww that sounds crap" before criticising me 😅 she tells me she cant do anything right and gets in a huff

9 times in 10 any convo becomes this weird fraught exchange that both of us walk away from feeling awful.

I sense an anger under the surface with her a lot of the time too
I get this vibe too and when i ask she cant articulate whats going on. Insists she's fine and i am accused of thinking the worst /badly of her...all she does is love me and everything is for me yadda yadda.

I actually got therapy to try and work out what I was "doing wrong".

The therapist seemed convinced it wasnt me and i actually stopped after 6 months because it wasnt going anywhere i wanted some magic sentances or tactics i could use to change how i am and "fix things".
the therapist was firm in her view it was my mothers issue and i had to accept it and her because she wasnt going to change...i just had to change my response and not get upset because this is how she is / will always be.

Sorry its so long 🙈
it weighs heavy on me
i feel like a terrible daught and reading this has been helpful as i dont know anyone else experiencing this

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower

Sorry you are going through similar 💐

I considered therapy as well, i might still give it a go as just writing it out in this thread has helped how i feel.

My mum is similar and increasingly so. It's GB news on repeat and even though she is an intelligent woman, it's like she doesn't really question anything she watches now.

We actually hold similar viewpoints on many issues but I get quite frustrated with the endless conversation (monologue actually) about the same few topics and these days I try to steer clear of political debate as she just won't entertain different viewpoints.

I'm guessing that because of the experience with her sister, she wouldn't be receptive to any suggestion that all the anger merits a checkup with her doctor?

How is her sleep, is her blood pressure ok, and does she feel her normal zest for life?

Is she lonely? Could you suggest fun things for seniors to get involved in locally, so she'd be able to get out more, meet people, stay very busy, and have less time for the rabbit holes?

Are there any volunteering roles in the area, or gardening clubs, etc?