Drifting apart from DM. I never saw this coming

[Flyg]

I used to have the easiest most natural feeling great relationship with my mum and i never thought that would change.

Im mid 40's now and i would say this change has been happening probably over the last 4 years or so, but its getting harder now to spend time together for me (i honestly dont know if shes feeling it to the extent i am).

I do think she has been captured a lot by stuff she's seen on youtube. She does repeat some questionable right wing stuff and said she voted Reform last time, despite always being a labour voter before that. I'm not sure how much this has played a part in me finding it uncomfortable to talk to her. She bigs up Trump and Musk a bit and even Tommy Robinson FGS. She also claimed people were arrested for "nothing" following the Southport riots - which i just feel is surely a stretch. I dont really want this to become a political debate, its just all of these viewpoints are brand new from her and in the past we have always pretty much seen eye to eye politically and as everyone knows political disagreements are hard to navigate, much like religious ones.

She also realised over the last few years that one her her sisters was a total narc (she really, really is, ive always seen it) and i feel like because she didnt know what her sister was doing for so many years, with gaslighting and making her feel bad - its like she is now on the defensive with everyone, myself included.

I sense an anger under the surface with her a lot of the time too.

I suppose im wondering if anyone else has hit an unexpected sticky patch with their mum and hoping there might be some advice or wise words for me in managing this? Its making me lose sleep lately as my tummy is a bit in knots when she is here. She does lots to help with the kids and ive always appreciated that and still do, its just that spending time together now has started to feel really fraught.

Well, she has a point on that one. My family is Iranian and they feel the same way after having to flee following the revolution.

Sometimes reality is important.

I wish. Personal experience. Before Covid, ‘and by the way, I’m a lesbian’. Partway through lockdown ‘I’m trans.’. On 18th birthday, started testosterone and saving currently for a mastectomy.

Lucky you, if you only see it on TV.

I'm an older Mumsnetter. I think very differently about some subjects now than I did, say, five years ago. I used to be Guardian/BBC/Labour and now much less so. But this is because I believe that the Guardian and BBC and Labour have changed.

I don't really seek to inflict my views on those who I know won't share them - unless it seems really important to me to provide an alternative viewpoint eg if someone says that Israel is committing genocide, I might ask, well what is a country supposed to do when its citizens are massacred.

I do think people of any age can go slightly bananas if they spend too much time alone and online - where algorithms generate more and more one-sided content.
If a parent is doing this, there's something to be said for encouraging a bit of socialising and/or outdoor activity - U3A, voluntary work, community activities, gardening a book group.

And perhaps children don't have to be close to their parents in the sense of approving of everything they say and do. It's hard when relationships change, but if an older parent is basically well in body and spirit/doesn't have unmet care needs, perhaps one can ease off a bit if you find their company irritating.

Sorry if I’ve conflated posts- and certainly don’t want to upset anyone. My DM has always been significantly further right than me, and I coped by just changing the subject. There was no way she’d learn anything from me!

However I have moved a little in her direction over the years but am a bit alarmed by how much further she has gone in the same time. It doesn’t bode well 🤣. 21 year old me would probably want to deny the vote to the future 65 year old me!
Which is why diversity is so important. We really need alternative perspectives and the courage to voice them!

Thank you for replying, part of the reason I said about doing things outside of her looking after the kids, not to accuse you of anything just to ask if what the extent of your interactions are as it seems most of them are based around her coming to you or you go to them and you 'chat', rather than doing anything outside of chatting or her having the kids, it doesn't seem like you do anything together that takes you out of your homes etc, have fun or distract you from your lives?

With kindness, do you think she also has slight narcissistic tendencies? It would explain the martyr complex you referenced, she wants to be the one you have to rely on (with the kids for example) but you currently aren't showing her the correct level of appreciation for it in her mind, in fact it seems to be the opposite, you don't really want her there after she has done what you need her to do, because of how she is being. But she thinks you don't want her there because she has served her purpose and she is only welcome round because she is being paid so it's become all very awkward? She is definitely spoiling for an argument, like there is something going on behind the scenes which isn't being left unsaid.

My own mum would do this occasionally, she used to get passive aggressive though when she was ready for a 'air clear', rather than spout bullshit political opinions.. I used to have to say quite bluntly 'right, what's up, you may as well just come out with it!' then we would have a chat, an argument or maybe a little cry and a bit of space then things would be okay again after getting everything out in the open, you both seem stuck in that awkward phase, neither of you wanting to say anything or rock the boat, both skirting around your problems, but both obviously unhappy with the current setup. I could have left it and tolerated a fraught tense relationship with my mum but life is too bloody short to be honest.

Do you really need her for childcare? Could you knock that on the head and just see her purely socially instead, because you both actually want to.. not because you have no other choice? That way you can clear the air and it doesn't matter if you don't see each other for a couple of weeks.

It sounds like you are never going to agree so you need tactics for changing the topic of conversation.

Just a random thought, is there anything your mum is a bit of a specialist at where you can ask her for advice? As in, mum I can never get my apple pie as good as yours, any tips /when is best to plant lavender/I'm getting into those classic films you used to watch, what was the name of the one with the jewel thief (totally random examples lol).

My feeling is that without work, politics has become your mum's 'specialist subject' and main topic of conversation. She has all this knowledge (from her perspective) which you don't want to hear. Maybe finding something else she has a lot of knowledge in that you are interester to hear about will give her a sense of being useful and heard.

Also good if you could find a (non-political) TV show that you both like as a conversational fallback

Oh honestly, where do you get that from that i cant stand hearing viewpoints other than my own. Thats total nonsense. This is a sudden and drastic lurch to the right and is coupled with her watching youtube all the time and coming out with homophobic comments to her bisexual daughter - this has an awful lot to do with me feeling devastated that my mum all of a sudden thinks i may secretly, desperately wish i was a man, and nothing to do with political debate, which i dont take issue with.

i stated in my post its awful, I dont know how anyone can see it as anything other than awful, that wasnt my point - i agree with her on that.

Ahh. So you can't ge on with someone unless they share your political views? Tbh best just to change the subject and roll your eyes. One thing though is to limit how much time you spend with her and secondly try to engage in other topics. I found researching the family tree useful plus I read the news local to her area which helped with conversation. At least she's IT savvy! Not talking religion or politics is a thing for a very good reason!

Agree about trying to redirect the algorithms - cats, dogs, British countryside, music of the 70s or whenever she had her dancing days, haircut videos, make up tutorials for women over 50, animal.rescue, live feed of eagles in their nests...

My mum is very similar and over the Christmas period she ruined an otherwise lovely family day by spouting off her views. I've always know she has these views, but she has got worse over the years. She is an avid Daily Hate reader and buys it every day. She says she has looked into what ever view she is talking about as if that makes it better. It's very difficult to have a sensible conversation about it as she jumps all the over the place, and has info on part of the subject but mixes it up with other things.
The crazy thing is she and her family were brought over to the UK as, well, immigrants!
We have agreed to not talk about the subject again but it has made me withdraw from her a lot which makes me sad.

Oh dear, sounds like YouTubeitus!
My friend completely transformed by all the dodgy facts on there and husband addicted to American news broadcasts which he listens to on head phones at night.
Has made certain areas no go now and I don't meet up with friend so much any more as our walks were spoilt...

I can sadly relate to a lot of this. DM is in her 70s, used to be fairly liberal but the last 5-10 years or so have seen a sharp swerve to the right. Which is fine - to each their own and all that, but she’s so aggy with it and seems
to be looking for a fight much of the time. We’ve fallen out a few times and I’ve had to leave. Each time I’ve reached out and smoothed things over as she will give me the silent treatment for weeks and I cba.

It’s hard to stomach and I find myself avoiding her a bit. But we are close and live nearby and they do a day a week childcare for us. They’re generous and love us and I don’t ever want to cut off from them but I wish it was different. She seems so angry. I think she’s spending too much time on her own and too much time on her phone. It’s X for her rather than YouTube.

I think being retired has this effect, and social media must make it worse. Pre-internet, a relative retired and immediately had less social contact, and it seemed to open up lots of time with not that much to fill it. He went from being an interesting person to telling you in huge detail about very boring things - like the best bus route to somewhere you’d vaguely mentioned.

Many, many years ago I had a friend who dragged the Holocaust into everything. She was sliding deeper and deeper into depression, it turned out, and she was like a magnet for everything horrific from history or from the news. She could not appreciate positive aspects of life at all, or live in the moment.

Your mother's symptoms may be different in form, but it is very possible that she's experiencing depression. Sometimes the news can provide a handy proxy or a hook to hang anger or other emotions on, when actually a person is experiencing grief or fear or trauma from a relationship with a narcissist.

Could you suggest to her that since she's been a victim of a narcissist all these years, it might be a good idea to seek therapy to 'debrief' from the experience and navigate the grief associated with the loss of the relationship with her sister, and come to terms with all the time she spent dealing with her. A good therapist would be able to spot depression.

I agree with @Sunat45degrees that having a “smaller” life can cause older people to get really into news updates as something to do and also to still feel connected to the outside world. My Dad (86) has poor mobility so spends a lot of time at home now so he follows everything - and comes out with some strange pronouncements sometimes. He tends to worry about the state of the world rather than getting angry though. He doesn’t have dementia but I think that his critical thinking has declined and he just believes what he hears, iyswim. I notice that he’s more relaxed when he’s been out doing one of his hobbies though.

I’d encourage your Mum with outside interests like U3A as you mentioned.

There's a podcast called You're Wrong About and they did an episode on this topic. The episode is called Losing Relatives to Fox news.

Thank you so much for the replies everyone. This all really helps.

I see this a couple of ways. You either challenge your mother and ride the storm when she throws a strop/gets upset or you try to change your mother’s algorithms/work on your relationship. Second one is hard as real life gets in the way. Maybe join groups with your mum where possible like both join the wi even you join for a short period. Both join ramblers then you slip off eventually but still have a shared hobby/outlet when the relationship dips (she becomes annoying). Opens up her hobbies and conversation topics and means you get some time with your mum in a different setting and may change her approach to life in a positive way.

It hadn’t even occurred to me… I can’t even think how I would get my mother to go to a doctor for a brain scan through trickery or anything else.

The prospect of dementia/Alzheimer’s is terrifying

My sil and my dad are like this, not the same views as your mum, but digesting so much shite from bloody Tiktok and taking it as reality. My stock answer everytime when they started is, I don't watch Tiktok, I don't read newspapers or follow current affairs so I can't comment, what have you been up to this week or how are you? They have now stopped mentioning any of it to me as I wasn't giving them anything back.

Maybe you need to have a big confrontation with her?

A lot of this seems to be you tiptoeing around her and not saying things because of the discomfort you feel when she stonewalls you.

It does sound like the breakdown of her relationship with her sister has had a huge impact on her - maybe she needs a therapist.

Maybe she needs a big push to get help. Not saying it'll work though. 🤔

I think try bringing up the spag bol and say gently to her that it'd be good to get checked out. It might be she's worried about it herself.

It might be something as simple as conflicts of medication - my mum had a review of what she was on and she was really over medicated with things that clashed and made her a bit foggy.

Sooner you can persuade her to get checked out the better.

Not for the same reasons you appear to be but I am definitely struggling to want to spend time with mum these days it's exhausting and hard work and not a relaxing environment anymore my blood pressures through the roof afterwards.

I hear you, op!
This post really speaks to my situation with my mum and my sister. We've always had fairly similar views in the past, but over the past few years they are becoming more right-wing and I feel on-edge when we discuss the world and what's going on.
But my sister lost her husband to cancer and I think k spends too much time reading right-wing propaganda online. Telling my I'm naïve if I don't know we're already at war with Russia.
She said I should send my 23 year old only child to live in Australia to avoid conscription. This upset me as he's my only child but I don't want him to go to war.
It's difficult but I think people's views change as they age. My mum was a very different person when she was younger.
We need to tell them no more political discussion x