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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sister has just had a hard birth, and I am glad

122 replies

Blueskythinker · 09/05/2008 22:19

I know I am a dreadful person. I am one of the ones who has a toxic sister. Without going into the details, she was really abusive to me when I had just had my DD, 3 years ago. She has spent the time since then slagging me off to anyone who will listen, I have spent it waiting for an apology.

She gave birth 2 days ago to her first child, prematurely, and had an emergency C section. Everyone else in my family is saying 'Oh poor XXX, what a hard time'. I just try to look neutral, but actually, I am glad she had a horrible time. The sad bitter part of me thinks that she will perhaps start to understand how difficult it is being a new mum, and she will maybe rethink her abusive behaviour towards me.

At what point do the people with toxic siblings become toxic themselves?

OP posts:
kama · 10/05/2008 08:20

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AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/05/2008 08:20

Very briefly, I have supported my sister financially for several years - she lived with me rent & bill free for 6 months, then moved into a rental house I owned for 2 1/2 years, at a massively reduced rate - (didn't even cover the mortgage, but I didn't mind, out of family loyalty).

I helped her to buy a house, and she moved out of my rental house - and left it in a complete mess. I have been in property rental for 13 years, and have never had one of my properties left like this - it was horrendous. I phoned her and asked her if she could help me to clean it. My DD was a few weeks old, I had had a very traumatic birth, and had severe injuries from it. Instead she arrived at my house and screamed at me to go fuck myself. hmm

Since then, she has ranted at anyone who will listen about how dreadfully I behaved towards her. She is not above inventing complete lies in order to justify her dislike towards me.
Blue Sky

Was wondering exactly why you did help her in such a manner, were you obligated to as well by your parents putting pressure on you to do so?. Did you for instance have your parents saying, "oh we don't know what to do with her?". Were you told by them to "rescue" her and "help her out"?. Your sister seems like both an irresponsible and very troubled individual but you are not her responsibility ultimately. I think she threw your kindnesses back in your face and you yourself learnt a very harsh lesson in that enabling does not help the one being helped.

I reckon as well she has always been like this and both your parents have played a large part in shaping her behaviours as well. How are they towards her and you?. You're seemingly the scapegoat for all the toxic stuff in your family aren't you?. Children now adults of toxic families often have defined roles. The "stately homes" thread would be a good one for you to read and even post on. You will get support there.

I would also suggest counselling for your own self as you need a neutral person to help you with the understandable anger and resentment you feel.

TBH I would distance myself completely from all of them including your parents (do they also run around after your sister as well?) and concentrate instead on making your own family life a good one. Living well is the best revenge.

You would not let a friend treat you in such a manner so why are family members any different?. They should receive no special consideration just because they are "family".

turquoise · 10/05/2008 09:00

On the whole, I agree with Anorak - except that because you're writing this, and have bought a present, card etc - maybe you aren't quite ready to cut her off completely.

I'd send the card, maybe with some kind of message about new beginnings, and leave the rest to her. I know I didn't grow up until I became a mother (I was never as foul as your sister sounds, just shallow, immature and self-absorbed) and maybe, maybe she will. Sounds like you want to give her that last chance.

I'm not surprised you feel resentful and angry at all! And if you can't admit those feelings on an anonymous website, where the hell can you?

I hope it works out for you.

piratecat · 10/05/2008 09:09

she must have hurt you very much.

WinkyWinkola · 10/05/2008 09:15

You could of course offer the olive branch, offer to help her when she's in pain etc but always keep yourself emotionally distant. If she improves physically, perhaps then you can withdraw again, guilt free, knowing you've done the right thing but by withdrawing you won't expose yourself to more hurt.

Her past behaviour sounds terrible. She sounds like a nutter. And best avoided once all the drama and pain of her birth has subsided a bit. Don't kick her when she's down. Don't kick her at all but make sure you look after yourself. Never trust her again.

Have you told your parents what happened when you asked her to clean up? Obviously don't tell them now but maybe in a few years you could enlighten them.

Don't listen to the moos on here telling you you are toxic and nasty. You've bought a gift for pity's sake. That's more than she'd get from me.

Beetroot · 10/05/2008 11:07

It is so difficult this 'if they die' thing.

they will die
But you cannot pretend things are ok so you do not feel bad when they do.

You do not have to carry anger aroudn
You can understand that at present being involved in each others life is not making either of you happy, infact it is very damaging.

And not having everyone tell you anything about the sibling is a really good move - that way you will not get het up by things they do.

Lovesdogsandcats · 10/05/2008 11:17

You are not dreadful and to the people saying bad things about you, well when you've walked a mile blah blah...

To OP you are not being horrid being glad she had a bad time, all you are doing is maybe being a bit over zealous in your appreciation of the karma at work here. I think 'glad' was a badly chosen word to describe your feeling of what goes around comes around, as you sow so shall you reap etc.

Oh and I am sure I would feel this. Anyone who has repeatedly been shit on from a great height, especially from a family member, would surely feel that at least 'now they know what its like'.

mloo · 10/05/2008 11:24

I don't know anything about the value of forgiveness, but the venom of resentment will eat you up.

Original poster
Blueskythinker · 10/05/2008 16:11

Have checked in and am touched by all the kind words (and the sharp ones too). Thanks, I will visit the stately homes thread.

It was interesting to think about the link between my mother and my sister's behaviour - basically my mother indirectly encouraged my sister to behave in the way she did - my Mum had been acting a bit huffily towards me(I think the applecart gets a bit rocked when a daughter becomes a mum - but that's for another thread - everything is fine between Mum & me now), but she went to XXXX and moaned to her about me. I think XXX saw it as an opportunity to vent her jealousy towards me - kick me when I'm down so to speak. XXX then went running to my Mum about how dreadful I'd been, and there was a bit of a coven going on for a while.

OP posts:
anorak · 10/05/2008 16:52

And another salient point I think is that you don't wish her ill, I believe the reason you are glad she has experienced this difficulty is purely because you know she needs to learn what these things are like for you and other people so that she will treat them more kindly in future -and she doesn't appear to be empathic enough to learn it without personal experience.

I keep thinking that if you had posted that your husband had treated you this way everyone would be calling you a fool for putting up with it, calling him every name under the sun, and urging you to break up your family to get rid of him. Yet lots of people think you should put up with it from a sister, and I don't understand why.

TheHedgeWitch · 10/05/2008 17:06

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Weegiemum · 10/05/2008 17:34

I've forgiven my Mother for a lot of things.

However, due to her continuing toxic nature, I have no contact with her or my sister who sides with her all the time.

You don't have to be incontact, but forgiveness helps your own soul, and I think that is really important.

nkf · 10/05/2008 17:47

Well, stop waiting for an apology and get on with something else. . If you can feel so pleased that someone has had an emergency c and a premature baby, your thoughts are corrosive.

Irisheyes78 · 10/05/2008 19:31

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Beetroot · 10/05/2008 19:32

irisheyes - your comments are not necessary

Irisheyes78 · 10/05/2008 19:35

They are not meant for you so don't let them bother you too much.

Wicked to be glad about something like this!

hls · 10/05/2008 19:48

You need to think about counselling, or psychotherapy. It really would help you. Carrying such hate with you will affect everything you do, and maybe even your children's lives.

There are two people in every relationship- and if you think your sister is "toxic" then that could not be so without YOU behaving in certain ways when you were younger, feeding or encouraging that toxicity. Even if you didn't know it or do it deliberately.

Try to forgive. You will be the loser if you carry this with you- get some professional help.

PinkTulips · 10/05/2008 19:50

might be worth reading the whole thread before you post IE78

Irisheyes78 · 10/05/2008 19:52

Was responding to original post not the whole thread. If she is sorry for what she said now that's great.

Beetroot · 10/05/2008 19:53

Reading before you are nasty

not in the spirit of MN

Irisheyes78 · 10/05/2008 19:57

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nickytwotimes · 10/05/2008 20:01

Irish, you ought to have found out why the op felt that way rather than slinging a personal insult at her.

hls · 10/05/2008 20:04

Ladies,ladies,...

it's bad enough the OP saying she had a toxic relationship- don't add to the misery out there. Just calm it!

Beetroot · 10/05/2008 20:08

at his

PinkTulips · 10/05/2008 20:08

beety

irisheyes, how can you justify name calling and nastiness like that when you are chastising a poster for far less nasty actions?

op merely feels this way and has come on to lovely anonymous MN to vent some very valid frustrations with what sounds like a vicious sister.

you're the one out of line here and i think ou owe op an apology for those comments.

Bluesky, for what it's worth i have no siblings myself so can't imagine how hard this must be but i do know SIL id so toxi, selfish, violent and down right nasty both dp and his brother and father have washed their hands of her. they've given her 200 chances each and she's spat in their faces, beat FIL up and dp had to kick her out of his car recently. she's had horrible things happen to her and i'm sorry to say it's only mad her more of a bitch, despite buckets of sympathy, understanding and forgivness from all the family.

some people aren't worth guilt tbh, they're toxic and will always remain so, the only way for you not to become toxic too is to keep your distance.

i think the posters advocating olive branches etc are well meaning but possibly haven't experianced the depths of nastiness and abuse that some people are capable of