Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sister has just had a hard birth, and I am glad

122 replies

Blueskythinker · 09/05/2008 22:19

I know I am a dreadful person. I am one of the ones who has a toxic sister. Without going into the details, she was really abusive to me when I had just had my DD, 3 years ago. She has spent the time since then slagging me off to anyone who will listen, I have spent it waiting for an apology.

She gave birth 2 days ago to her first child, prematurely, and had an emergency C section. Everyone else in my family is saying 'Oh poor XXX, what a hard time'. I just try to look neutral, but actually, I am glad she had a horrible time. The sad bitter part of me thinks that she will perhaps start to understand how difficult it is being a new mum, and she will maybe rethink her abusive behaviour towards me.

At what point do the people with toxic siblings become toxic themselves?

OP posts:
BeachBunni · 10/05/2008 00:57

Omg blueskythinker - I thought the same - I'm in NI too. Live near belfast x

Tortington · 10/05/2008 01:02

i'm with anorak - shes a twat fuck her off

BeachBunni · 10/05/2008 01:06

anorak - I'd be with you if it was anybody else but with siblings you have to give them more leeway. blood is thicker than water, after all

MrsThierryHenry · 10/05/2008 01:07

Hahahaha re NI! Go for it, girl!

Anorak - it is incredibly painful when people treat us as badly as you appear to have been treated. You are protecting yourself very well by cutting people off when they have hurt you. But it's at a price. You quite possibly don't realise what that price is. I'll give you an analogy, and my thoughts are based on my experience of choosing to forgive my father a great, great deal.

You know the old adage about how a caterpillar needs to struggle through a chrysalis in order to build the strength to become a butterfly? And if someone helps it open the chrysalis, it dies?

Of course we humans can live very well by avoiding those who hurt us, but by facing them and doing the hardest thing - forgiving and choosing to make that relationship grow deeper - we can live far better.

There's no such thing as 'blind' forgiveness. People who choose to forgive are the ones who feel the pain the most keenly, whose insight is the deepest - because it is impossible to forgive if we numb ourselves against pain in the way you appear to have done. The only way you can possibly experience that kind of insight and depth of self is if you ever decide to do it yourself. Otherwise it is you who will always be blind one.

sandcastles · 10/05/2008 01:12

"At what point do the people with toxic siblings become toxic themselves"

In your case, at around 22.19:36 on Friday 9th May 2008, I'd say!

I would so hate to have had my sister think the same as you when I had EXACTLY what your sister had as a first birth!

anorak · 10/05/2008 01:18

That's all very worthy MrsTH and I am all for the road less travelled approach if it is ever going to do any good and the person in question is ever going to respond to your kindness.

But if they don't and just remain a tosser then you are lying down and inviting them to walk all over you. That's not an experience that builds your insight and depth of self - it's more the kind of thing that turns you into a downtrodden and broken-spirited bully's victim.

Tortington · 10/05/2008 01:19

i don't think blood is thicker than water- for me that is. people get two chances with me. after that they've shit it. and i mean it. i just don't entertain them family or no.

MrsThierryHenry · 10/05/2008 01:19

Mmm...what a positive contribution, Sandcastles. There's no such thing as a good or bad person...just people who do good and shitty things from time to time. Haven't you ever hurt someone in the past? Or thought badly of someone? You may try to justify your past actions or say that what Bluesky wrote is worse than anything you've done, but how would you quantify that?

The fact is that Bluesky has started this thread because she's NOT happy with the way things are. She realises that she's a good person with shitty feelings and she's not happy to stay that way. So who do you think you are assassinating her character like some imaginary Little Miss Perfect?

anorak · 10/05/2008 01:21

But sandcastles I bet you haven't treated your sister like BST's sister has treated her. It's a different matter.

BeachBunni · 10/05/2008 01:27

Anorak - what builds your insight and depth of spirit is forgivenes. They are not all walking over you, you are not a victim..

MrsThierryHenry · 10/05/2008 01:34

Anorak, it sounds like you've been through some awful experiences and I don't know what they are. All I can say is that sadly these things never leave us until we face them.

When I chose to forgive my father I never told him. He was too proud to listen to that sort of thing. But I did it internally, and it transformed our relationship, it made me stronger, and it meant that when he died my grief was not complicated by regrets, bitterness, anger, or any other feelings related to past hurts.

Some relationships are far too painful - and in some extreme cases, too dangerous - to revisit in person for the sake of closure. However, even in those cases, forgiveness can happen without the other person being around - it is essential for the 'victim' as you put it to heal.

You mentioned that you find your approach is the best way to heal. You may possibly discover much later in life that in fact the wound is still there but it's just been latent for many years. This is not psychobabble or any other sort of bullshit. If you ignore a physical wound it will most likely become infected and get worse over time. Our bodies and minds often work in similar ways.

Unforgiveness (believe it or not) is a way of imprisoning ourselves because it's ultimately an avoidance strategy. I really hope at some point for your sake and for the sake of those who depend on you, that you are able to free yourself from whatever's happened to you.

Anyway, this is Bluesky's thread, I don't want to take lots of attention away from her issue.

Tortington · 10/05/2008 01:34

some people blatently crap on you. repeatedly.

i forgive them once

Beetroot · 10/05/2008 01:36

there is a time when you have to give up and move on. It doesn't matter if it is with fmaily or not.

MrsThierryHenry · 10/05/2008 01:37

The stories on this page might give better insight than I can: www.theforgivenessproject.com/stories/anne-gallagher

S1ur · 10/05/2008 01:40

It would be easier if people could segment their feelinhs and make clear decisions, wouldn't it? I think BST probably would struggle with an absolute

Bluesky, I understand you feelings and your confusion. I t isn't as easy as cutting a stranger out of your life, is it? Your sister for better or worse as been around you for a long time, you have all sorts of unresolved issues with her.

You have a choice.

You recognise this relationship can go nowhere positive and distance yourself further, albeit politely and respectifully to the rest of your family.
or
You hold on to the hope of reconciliation and work towards that. If that is what you'd rather then look for ways to retain your dignity and strength and find a way to regain the relationship you used to have when you were both younger.

YANBU for feeling the way you do, what you do about it is up to you.

ally90 · 10/05/2008 07:37

Your not a dreadful person. You are just very angry and with unrequited anger comes the need for revenge. And the reason you are angry is because you are hurt by your sisters behaviour. I'm sure this is not the first time she has behaved this way towards you?

I too have said dreadful things like the above about my sister and family, when I felt that no one validated my feelings of anger towards them. And it is and was justified anger.

Come on to the stately homes thread... we're good at validating peoples experiences, no matter how 'unjustified' their feelings may seem to those who have no experience of the toxic family member.

I'm also guessing...tho you may not agree, wish to acknowledge or even think about...your mother and father may have helped make your sister this way? And you the way you are? And I'm guessing the huge anger comes because your mum and dad did not validate your feelings/listen to you or just side with your sister? You don't have to talk further on this one. Just know that your feelings and experience are just as valid as those of your sister.

Stately Homes thread here

WatsTheStory · 10/05/2008 07:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ally90 · 10/05/2008 07:46

Just read messages above...you really need the stately homes thread!!!

Forgiveness/olive branch = sweeping under carpet.

NOT HEALTHY!!

That saying about rightous anger is a good one...

You could try talking to her with relate(?) or a councellor but she does not sound the type to listen to your side of the story and you could end up more damaged and hurting than you are now...

And BST is NOT a bad person...this is just ONE individual she has a problem with, not just a random woman off the street. No its not a good thing to wish bad things on people...but it does happen when you have suffered at the hands of that person. And I'm sure BST feelings do NOT extend as far as the baby.

WatsTheStory · 10/05/2008 07:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ally90 · 10/05/2008 08:06

you didn't...we x posted I just take a long time to type messages!

MeMySonAndI · 10/05/2008 08:09

I have followed the forgive and forget line of thought for most of my life, but there are people in this world capable to cause such hurt and damage if you continue giving them the opportunity.

I have handed the olive branch to my now ExMIL and xSIL so many times that I had even had to had couseling to be able to deal with the beating they gave me with the same olive branch.

Despite my years long "forgive and forget" aproach, I have never felt more at peace than at the moment I decided to give up and get them out of my life. They can't hurt me anymore.

I'm with Anorak in this. When you are dealing with a really bad situation removing yourself from the situation is actually your best bet.

WatsTheStory · 10/05/2008 08:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Beetroot · 10/05/2008 08:13

I think there is a time when youcan forgivefor your own sake - but this does not have to mean that you try to stay friends. You can forgive without telling them, to end bitterness and bad feelings but you can still decide that any relationship between you is toxic.

yurt1 · 10/05/2008 08:13

Your sister sounds dreadful. I'm with custardo- send the present/card then leave it. If she's grown up realised she behaved appallingly she'll hopefully follow that up.If she doesn't reply then there's not much you can do with her.

sophiewd · 10/05/2008 08:14

DH's sister is toxic, he made the decision that he didn't want her to have anything to do with DD, it's great.