Dating a fantasist

[Beautifulbouquet]

I've been dating someone who I would describe as a fantasist / compulsive or pathological liar.

He treats me very well and he does not lie about day to day things.

He has however I suspect some years ago created a complete fantasy past life. This includes being in the Marines, being in prison multiple times, being in a famous rock band, inheriting a seven million pound apartment etc

I honestly am not sure about his grip on reality. The lies are so quickly disproved that they're almost comical. They also don't fit together...so he was similtaeously in the marines and in prison. The lies are repeated and highly detailed. When confronted about details he seems genuinely a bit perplexed himslef but insists everything is true.

It would seem that as a victim of a difficult childhood he created a fantasy life in his head and he has never grown out of that or confronted that. I'm aware that this may be related to head trauma, brain lesions or other neurological difficulties too.

I've said I can't keep seeing him but am willing to support him if he wants to try and work through these issues. I've said this because I can't see anyone else in his life helping him and I don't think he can do it on his own. He's the sort of person quick to help others, gentle and has never been in the slightest aggressive.

He's said he wants us to be together and that he needs some time to work on these issues. Difficult to know how genuine this is.

I'm not really interested in "what a lying bastard" responses (though of course please be honest) as this would genuiely seem to be beyond his control. None of the lies give him any obvious benefit...eg he doesn't lie to get money or anything else.

But I am interested in any experiences of someone like this. I imagine working through this will take him years in reality and that it will be painful for him. I'm not offering to be his therapist but I suppose I can help him try and document his past and find evidence for it and help him recreate his past. I can also show that the person he is now and his future is all that matters...these stories don't impress anyone and he doesn't need them. But really of course the work is for him to do.

He is aware that I don't believe the stories. Whether there is an element of truth to any of them I don't know (for example he does play the guitar very well so he may have been in a band once, but definitely not the one he claims to have founded!)

To be clear we will in any case have an ongoing social relationship of some sort due to being close neighbours and so it is in that context that I feel simply 'blocking' him doesn't really seem a good solution.

Am I as crazy as he is?

I'm not sure what you're looking for if you don't want the 'lying fantasist bastard' response because that's what he is.

OK he's probably got MH problems, but you are his partner not his therapist and you can't be both. You could encourage him to see a professional, but I would caution you against trying to be his therapist because he needs you to be a partner or friend (or not in his life at all) and that is an entirely different relationship to a client/therapist relationship.

Yes I agree. He would need a therapist. A bloody good one.

I suppose my offer is that if he is prepared to work with a therapist to get to the bottom of this then I am there as a friend who knows what he is going through and ca be someone i his real life he doesn't need to maintain the fiction with.

He's been good to me, lying aside, and if he does want to tackle this then I am there for him. His parents both seem to have a very unusual relationship to reality themselves (I've seen multiple messages from them...Dad is a born again Christian of the very extreme kind, Mum commuicates only through videos of cute animals and emojis) and his sister won't speak to him, I am guessing because she is frustrated and possibly angry about his stories. He has friends but he has told them all these lies and they don't seem to challenge him on them.

In reality I don't think he's going to be prepared to try to change so I am perhaps just assuaging my conscience b
y making this offer.

Find him one and back right off then.

He wants a relationship with you, you don't want one with him but you want to 'help' him, whilst recognising that he needs professional help.

It's got disaster written all over it and you're not his (or any other man's) saviour.

Already anticipating all the man bashing that's about to come on this thread, but honestly, if it were a new female friend with these issues, people would advise you differently. I do agree though that offering too much help and support might turn you into a bit of an emotional crutch for him so I would encourage him to seek help with his mental health.

Maybe look into support groups he could attend? Has he got any hobbies that might help give him something else to focus on or help with making other friends?

You sound like a very caring person and it's nice that you are wanting to support him in this seeing as he doesn't appear to have much support elsewhere. Just make sure you are looking after yourself at the same time and try to avoid being at his beck and call!

Could he be schizophrenic or something? He might need actual medication asside from just therapy.

Had he actually said 'I admit it, I lie. I don't know why I do it but I do. I want to stop'. Because if not, there's nothing anyone can do. You cannot stop an addict who doesn't 3lwant to stop. And that's what he is, addicted to lying.

Prison? I’d be running to another planet.

Why would you humour this man? Don’t try and befriend him.

You cannot be a rescuer or saviour in a relationship, neither approach works.

What are you getting out of this supposed relationship?. What needs of your own are being met here?. you here are your own worst enemy.

I disagree. I have been on MN since 2011 and have seen plenty of threads where posters have been advised to steer clear of toxic female friendships- including threads about lying friends.

I agree you can't be a partner and a therapist. And that he may well need medication for a serious personality disorder. I know you don't want the 'run' advice but frankly you do need to distance yourself. Don't set yourself up as the saviour, and I'd ask yourself if you are often a saviour in difficult situations. Some people - even if subconsciously- like being in that position, because it meets a need within them as well. I'd be really honest with yourself about what it is you get from the relationship and what you want from it. Because it can so easily be a total car crash.

His sister has had a lifetime of him and his behaviour and understandably she’s walked away and likely after much soul searching and upset. I would advise you to do the self same as there is really no helping someone this disordered of thinking.

He needs to find a therapist without any input from you. The will to do this has to come from him and him alone. There is no indication whatsoever he wants to seek help and of his own accord. He at all doing this for you will not work.

Which band?

I have a professional relationship with a fantasist. Amusingly he was displeased today as we were in a meeting with a gentleman who is not shy about a bit of self-promotion. As we were leaving the meeting Mr Fantasist was muttering under his breath 'shameless braggart'

My eyebrow went up at the decorated ex-marine, former firefighter, war journalist and personal guard to the Queen (on occasion).

In himself, he is a good worker, seems to have a nice family life and very obviously adores his wife and children. So, it seems that fantasists can be productive members of society, even if they lie their faces off.

His team will listen to anything he has to say in a work context and absolutely ignore anything else that comes out of his mouth.

I also came across one when dating many many years ago (also said he was an ex marine - what is it with being a marine?) who went on to marry a good friend of mine and apparently he is a perfect husband.

None of them seem to go to any form of therapy or get treatment and it seems that people very quickly cotton on to the fact that everything they say is lies - I would be interested if they are treatable as it does seem to be a deeply embedded lifetime thing.

One of my relations is a fantasist and the lies he has told are mind boggling. He will make mincemeat of you if you are fool enough to remain with him in any capacity.

Don't let him move in with you (no need to actually as he has such a beautiful, expensive apartment).
Don't lend him money.

I suppose I don't fundamentally believe that when we meet someone who needs help that the best thing to do is judge them, abandon them and not help them.

If we can help others, then we should try to, not at the expense of our own wellbeing.

The full picture is of someone who has often put himself out to help me, who supports me in my career, hobbies and other interests, who cooks for me and does other nice things and is highly appreciative of me.

People aren't one dimensional.

If no one had helped me in life, life wouldn't have been so good.

So I think that's a difference between me and some posters on the thread.

It's down to him. But if he wants to help himself I have said I will support. It's too soon to know if he does want to change or can. I'm not offering a lifetime pass for him to lie to me. I'm offering support as a friend who he can hopefully learn with that the truth doesn't need to be scary whilst getting professional help.

I've said I can't keep seeing him but am willing to support him if he wants to try and work through these issues. I've said this because I can't see anyone else in his life helping him

Big mistake. You are not a therapist. You are not a rehab centre for damaged men, either. Other people don't help him because they can't stand being lied to.

He has serious problems and you can't help with that. All you can do is recommend he sees his GP and asks for a referral to a therapist. If you think you can help him, then you need to research people-pleasing and saviour complexes.

Yes, you both sound 'crazy'.
He may be mentally unwell, you sound pretty weird - your responses to this situation are quite bizarre, I'd worry less about therapy for this guy (how long have you known this man??) and organise some for yourself.

Is it possible the being in prison part is actually true? Then he's said he was in the marines during that time to cover the truth......but tripped himself up in his own lies and forgotten what he told you?

Interesting and helpful! Sounds similar - the lies are all about the past (and the marines). He's really the least likely marine you ever saw (vegan, skinny, with lots of peace symbol tattoos).

Same with prison...when I asked him if it was very hard in prison he replied, oh no it's really nice in prison actually, there was a great library and a really nice garden and everyone in prison was really friendly and kind to each other and it wasn't strict at all (which obviously sounds quite odd!). He's also been granted visas to travel to countries which wouldn't accept people with a criminal record so I'm not covinced he was in prison, though maybe he was. They're like listening to lies from a six year old who doesn't even do any research to try and sound convincing. They're quite entertaining more than deceptive in a way - though obviously completely pointless and bizarre.

On a day to day level he seems honest, eg will say "sorry I was going to tidy up and here is my to do list of tasks but then I had a lie in and I didn't do any of it!. I'll tidy up now" or he'll say "I'm going to a gig with my friend Mike tonight and we're staying at this hotel" and indeed it is true or he'll say "I stayed late in the pub last night with these two friends"....he never seems to withold info on a daily basis which paints him in a less than favourable light or pretends to be somewhere he isn't. If anything he is more honest on a daily basis than most people.

The lies really are not convincing at all and in that sense not really harmful....they're just ridiculous. Nor if challenged does he then try and convince you. He quietly insists it is true but never for example says "you have trust issues" or "why are you grilling me" or gets aggressive or defensive. He just sort says it is true but then he lets it drop. When I said I didn't want to date anymore he said "I know what my part in this is and what I need to work on and I will" but he has said he needs some time before he feels ready to tackle it...to answer someone else's question he has never said "I know I tell stories that are't true" he has alluded to it more gently.

How odd 😳
Must be exhausting to try to keep up with that stuff.
I would study the person, but wouldn't have him as a partner.
Odd ... poor guy, what does it give him?

I would probably revert to being a friendly neighbour, if I'm honest. If he proactively comes to you saying he's found a therapist or needs help making an appointment, phoning the office etc then fine, but I would avoid making him a project. Maybe a bit of preliminary googling so you can signpost him but It's likely to be very deep seated and he needs to be the one who wants to change. I would have close boundaries on time you'll invest in him. That's not to say you shouldn't care about someone, or be nice to them just because they have issues, but you've explained what the problem is to him, he needs to be the one to take action, maybe go to his GP or research therapists, start with CBT if money is an issue.

It could be true. He's said why and that's believable (destruction of property in political demos - this is very believable for various provable reasons, family background, political beliefs etc).

But if so there was no reporting of these multiple court cases in any newspaper I can find and his stories of prison don't sound very convincing!

He told me he was in prison before he told me about the marines....so I don't think the marines was a cover for prison! But as I say I really am not sure how sound his grasp of reality is or perhaps will ever be. I have no idea if there is a grain in truth in ay of these stories. I think they're pretty much entirely made up.

Won't it be quite difficult to start dating someone else while still being responsible for his mental health? It sounds like he's quite happy with being a fantasist. I find people like this totally creepy, have known a few.

he has said he needs some time before he feels ready to tackle it.

Has he said why he needs time?

Yes, very similar. He is well respected at work as he only lies about the past and it's very obvious when he does. So people seem to treat it as an odd quirk.