Dating a fantasist

[Beautifulbouquet]

I've been dating someone who I would describe as a fantasist / compulsive or pathological liar.

He treats me very well and he does not lie about day to day things.

He has however I suspect some years ago created a complete fantasy past life. This includes being in the Marines, being in prison multiple times, being in a famous rock band, inheriting a seven million pound apartment etc

I honestly am not sure about his grip on reality. The lies are so quickly disproved that they're almost comical. They also don't fit together...so he was similtaeously in the marines and in prison. The lies are repeated and highly detailed. When confronted about details he seems genuinely a bit perplexed himslef but insists everything is true.

It would seem that as a victim of a difficult childhood he created a fantasy life in his head and he has never grown out of that or confronted that. I'm aware that this may be related to head trauma, brain lesions or other neurological difficulties too.

I've said I can't keep seeing him but am willing to support him if he wants to try and work through these issues. I've said this because I can't see anyone else in his life helping him and I don't think he can do it on his own. He's the sort of person quick to help others, gentle and has never been in the slightest aggressive.

He's said he wants us to be together and that he needs some time to work on these issues. Difficult to know how genuine this is.

I'm not really interested in "what a lying bastard" responses (though of course please be honest) as this would genuiely seem to be beyond his control. None of the lies give him any obvious benefit...eg he doesn't lie to get money or anything else.

But I am interested in any experiences of someone like this. I imagine working through this will take him years in reality and that it will be painful for him. I'm not offering to be his therapist but I suppose I can help him try and document his past and find evidence for it and help him recreate his past. I can also show that the person he is now and his future is all that matters...these stories don't impress anyone and he doesn't need them. But really of course the work is for him to do.

He is aware that I don't believe the stories. Whether there is an element of truth to any of them I don't know (for example he does play the guitar very well so he may have been in a band once, but definitely not the one he claims to have founded!)

To be clear we will in any case have an ongoing social relationship of some sort due to being close neighbours and so it is in that context that I feel simply 'blocking' him doesn't really seem a good solution.

Am I as crazy as he is?

Trauma response, perhaps learned over generations and normalised within family dynamics. It's nice of you to be empathetic, but you don't have the skills to nurture him to balanced mental health. It's not your place to do it.

As a previous poster said, I think the best thing is to revert to neighbourly friendship. He must take ownership of his self development.

Yes. He does genuinely have a big challenge (possible job loss) on at work and he wants to get through that. This makes sense to me as I wouldn't want to start therapy whilst in that situation as it's likely to actually make you feel a lot worse at first. I get the sense he's talking a few (3-4) weeks rather than longer.

He may be losing his job because of his lying behaviours.

What needs of your own here are being met here by being with this person?.

Why do you think he needs help?. You think he needs help but he may well not. He was managing somehow before he met you so what has changed?.

This exact first sentence.

Same re my fantasist relation re trauma response etc. However, all his girlfriends are like you in that they are determined to learn the hard way that such people Do Not Change. They are used and discarded when they are of no further use or benefit.

What are you trying to achieve? Are you just looking for a project? Why do you think you can 'fix' him? What qualifications do you have or experience in whatever is wrong with him?

Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

@AttilaTheMeerkat no needs as such. More living a value, which is we try to help others if it is within our power or the world goes to shit. Also I've had some shit in my life ad made mistakes and I've been lucky enough to have people who've tried to tell me when I'm going wrong and been there for me. It's made a big difference to me.

He wasn't really coping great before. He was getting by and he has told me he has been pretty depressed for years and has friends but not ones he can really talk to. This is pretty much the result of the lies as he's a decent enough bloke on first meeting and popular enough in our community until people start to smell bullshit, then they pull back and are happy to play darts with him or do pub banter, but don't get closer. He was coping OK I guess.

The weird thing with the stories is when we were dating (I'm just reflecting o this now) if he was relaxed and we just stayed in there would be no lies. We'd chat normally. But if he felt stressed, for example if we went out to a new bar and he felt more nervous (he's an introvert) then it seemed to spark off some crazy story.

Supporting him doesn't really improve my own life hugely. But having called him out as telling fibs, saying the door to friendship is closed even if you're working on your issue just doesn't sit right with me.

My family member lives in a Walter Mitty world of fantasy. He tells bare faced lies and embellishes the truth. The difference being, that my family member is not a nice person. He's arrogant, believes he's intellectually superior and has ideas of grandeur. I can't stand him, and there's not a single person (other than his wife and son!) who like him in the family. Funnily enough he claimed he'd been in the SAS, even his wife believed it! In reality he only ever managed 3 weeks in the Territorial Army!! 😂 My honest opinion is that he feels inferior to others, and makes up stories, of events he'd actually like to be true but aren't. He's always been a loner, he was obsessed with the military and always been odd. You can't help your partner. He needs to recognise he needs help, telling outlandish stories, that couldn't possibly be true, is not normal behaviour. He needs professional help. I would definitely not be in a relationship with him, you will never know if he's spinning you a yarn or not. It's draining and energy sapping. Keep contact to a group setting.

@MyOpulentDuck but honestly, if it were a new female friend with these issues, people would advise you differently.

I honestly wouldn't, but then I had the misfortune to be friends with a compulsive liar during my teens. I cannot remember all the lies there were so many but she had a modelling contract, was adopted at birth, had cancer but didn't need treatment, was related to a famous celebrity, got pregnant, had an abortion, had a lot of boyfriends and other cooler friends who went to other schools and nobody else knew them

This was pre internet but they were still all either easily disprovable or blatantly untrue and anytime it looked like I might be about to disprove or question she would become emotionally abusive towards me. To be honest I don't think I've ever fully recovered from that "friendship" and it was many years ago. Looking back now I can see she was clearly troubled and lacking in confidence but it wasn't my problem to solve and I wish I had extracted myself from her sooner. I strongly advise the OP not to make the same mistake.

But with kindness it’s not your place or job to help him. You are well out of your depth here and you will flounder. You were also receptive to listen to advice whilst he clearly is not. He likely thinks there’s nothing wrong with him.

I also came across one when dating many many years ago (also said he was an ex marine - what is it with being a marine?)

I have no blooming idea. Having lived within spitting distance of a Marine training camp for most of my life, locally we have a saying that Marines only want 3 things from a night out - to get laid, get drunk, to get into a fight...and they're not concerned which order they do it in. 😂

Putting all of his lies aside. Why would you want to with a man who has been in prison multiple times?

I'm not really sure what the point of correcting or "solving" him is.

It sounds like you're overfunctioning and overthinking on his behalf.

Gently, is there something difficult in your own life you might need to address rather than focus on analysing his personality to this high level?

We're all getting older, lots of older people who are a bit awkward and talk nonsense. They do fine if they've got an agreeable personality and are generally mainstream in their life choices.

It's not uncommon for people to avoid taking about traumatic/humiliating past experiences and having "cover stories". Especially with things like weird families and bullying and relationship situations.

Presumably he doesn't talk all the time about his past, isn't trying to raise money for himself as a ex-marine!

Like pps say, having a silly/childish quirk doesn't stop people having positive relationships and getting on with life.

If someone talks a bit of nonsense in a group most people will skim over it, it's nothing to do with them. You notice it as you're dating him, most people don't care.

If you want to stay in touch, I'd just get out and do something externally focussed like going for a walk or something.

He treats me very well and he does not lie about day to day things.

Ultimately you don’t really know this, do you. You just haven’t yet caught him out in a lie about any day to day things, or discovered that he’s seeing somebody else whilst convincingly pretending you’re the only woman in his life. He’s a liar, and you’re never going to be able to be secure that he’s being truthful about anything.

He may well need therapy, but that’s for him to come to a realisation about and take action towards getting. Perhaps realising that he’s never going to be able to hold down a relationship whilst he can’t stop lying to people will be the spark he needs. Leave him to it and move on. You aren’t going to be able to date anyone else properly whilst trying to maintain some sort of connection here - who wants their partner’s weird compulsive liar of an ex sniffing around?

Whether it’s a personality disorder or mental health issue, unless he sees that his patterns are problematic and really wants to change them there’s nothing you can do. Perhaps he’d engage in therapy but the chances of change are small.
I’d not engage romantically.

My own sense of reality is so confused right now.

I fact he maybe knows perfectly well he is lying.

He maybe thinks by going quiet for a few weeks I'll just forget it all and get back with him.

He's never apologised nor expressed real remorse.

Have you previously struggled with enabling poor behaviour in relationships or feeling as though you need to save people?

You say you feel like you want to or should remain friends - but why on earth would or should you? Friendship is based on who we are and having a connection with somebody. You have no idea about this man, what his background actually is, what bits he tells you about himself are true and which are completely fabricated. You literally have no idea who he is. How can you have a friendship with somebody you will never get to know?

Quite apart from that, he’s wasted months of your time which you could have spent in a happy, functioning relationship with somebody else, treating you like an idiot with his ridiculous lies. This man is not a friend to you. You might have to make polite neighbourly greetings when you see him over the fence or at the neighbourhood street party, but it’s perfectly fine to tell him that you’re angry he’s treated you like a mug and wasted your time and feelings, and have no interest in being his friend. He has no right to expect anything else. Of course he knows he’s lying about the things he’s told you: if he has a job, and a house, he got those things by writing down and being interviewed about things which were patently not his prison stunts, time in the marines, being a famous rockstar, or being a multi-millionaire.

"He has friends but he has told them all these lies and they don't seem to challenge him on them."

His friends accept him as he is, perhaps another woman will?

Many people aren't actually that perceptive/attentive/interested in someone's past.

Someone lying isn't as significant for them as it is for you.

When I've dated guys with what I perceive to be problems, they've normally easily found another woman/serious relationship.

There was no point me "having a chat" with one guy about his hygiene.

He met a hot hippy girlfriend ten years younger (I presume she doesn't like the shower either). Still together from SM.

Or the guy with trauma/maturity/honesty issues - married someone who is super-busy with a large supportive family so they're quite happy treating him like an idiot child.

I'd just say - he's lovely to you at the moment. Everything is going well so his lies are essentially just 'that thing he does'. But how would you feel in the future if things started to go wrong - you have a health problem and he lies and says he's had it too? Or you argue and he comes up with some whopper about being terminally ill to get himself off the hook?

If he says he's having therapy for his issue - would you even trust that THAT was true? He can, and demonstrably will, say absolutely anything. He can be a nice guy and also a lying fantasist, and they do not make good partners.

Thank you.

You are right.

I can't really explain why I'm being so stupid about this. He's hinted at childhood abuse and I think I've sort of invented that this is his inevitable response to it and he's a victim. But of course that very well may not be true.

My brother has ver major metal health issue which do stem from bad childhood experiences. But my brother is a terrible person and I wo't deal with him. Then I meet this guy and somehow I enter into this fantasy world.

I feel sort of captured by him somehow, like it's him and me against the world. Which is ridiculous! I have good long term friends. I should be horrified.

I've had a challeging few months and when we were dating he wanted to see me all the time and I think I've just lost touch with reality myself.

I feel so pathetic. I do believe i helpig others but my brother trapped me like this for years - being abusive to me at 3am in the morning, saying insane things....til I realised he will ever take responsibility.

So maybe that is why I am so confused now. Honestly this guy is not even my type physically nor does he live in ways I find attractive (house is filthy).

Dump: you are not his nurse. Why be intimate with a filthy person.

I mean this really kindly but I think the issues with your brother are another reason not to try to help "fix" him. It is not any reflection on you that you couldn't help your brother but perhaps an undeserved sense of failure about him is clouding your thinking about this ex and making you think you should "try again" via him. The fact he is not your type and you are not actually very compatible (the dirty house etc) adds weight to that.

He needs a therapist but he will not change easily.

Tbh my response would be the same whether he was just a cynical lying bastard or a fantasist damaged by his upbringing: run away fast. I think taking on someone like this as a friend would be unwise enough, but doing so when he wants more than friendship would be frankly bonkers. This will end badly.

That kind of lying/fantasising is pretty common. In my experience, it tends to be men more than women. I can think of several people like this. My cousin, for example, claimed he'd been taught Kung Fu by an old Chinese man with mystical powers, that he'd had trials for Liverpool, and so on. He's now in his 50s and, predictably, a borderline alcoholic with no qualifications who lives on the same estate where he was born.

It's usually men who feel inadequate or ashamed in some way. The worst are men with big egos but low self-esteem. You put those two things together and you've got problems. Their big ego means they crave attention and respect, but the low self-esteem stops them doing the things that would win them that respect. They can't bear the reality of their life or the way they feel, so they escape into fantasy, then they so wish the fantasies were true that they end up believing them. You'll find men like this everywhere. Go in Weatherspoons on a Saturday and you'll find someone like that. When they've got plenty of alcohol inside them their confidence soars and they start talking utter nonsense. They don't 100% lie, they just distort and exaggerate everything.

In the US there is a vigilantie group called 'stolen valor' that hunts down men who've lied about their war service – especially in Vietnam. Apparently it's common for men to show up at remembrance services posing as veterans. I remember one real veteran saying that he pitied them. They so wish that they were veterans, and so long for the respect veterans receive, that they convince themselves they really did fight.