Dating a fantasist

[Beautifulbouquet]

I've been dating someone who I would describe as a fantasist / compulsive or pathological liar.

He treats me very well and he does not lie about day to day things.

He has however I suspect some years ago created a complete fantasy past life. This includes being in the Marines, being in prison multiple times, being in a famous rock band, inheriting a seven million pound apartment etc

I honestly am not sure about his grip on reality. The lies are so quickly disproved that they're almost comical. They also don't fit together...so he was similtaeously in the marines and in prison. The lies are repeated and highly detailed. When confronted about details he seems genuinely a bit perplexed himslef but insists everything is true.

It would seem that as a victim of a difficult childhood he created a fantasy life in his head and he has never grown out of that or confronted that. I'm aware that this may be related to head trauma, brain lesions or other neurological difficulties too.

I've said I can't keep seeing him but am willing to support him if he wants to try and work through these issues. I've said this because I can't see anyone else in his life helping him and I don't think he can do it on his own. He's the sort of person quick to help others, gentle and has never been in the slightest aggressive.

He's said he wants us to be together and that he needs some time to work on these issues. Difficult to know how genuine this is.

I'm not really interested in "what a lying bastard" responses (though of course please be honest) as this would genuiely seem to be beyond his control. None of the lies give him any obvious benefit...eg he doesn't lie to get money or anything else.

But I am interested in any experiences of someone like this. I imagine working through this will take him years in reality and that it will be painful for him. I'm not offering to be his therapist but I suppose I can help him try and document his past and find evidence for it and help him recreate his past. I can also show that the person he is now and his future is all that matters...these stories don't impress anyone and he doesn't need them. But really of course the work is for him to do.

He is aware that I don't believe the stories. Whether there is an element of truth to any of them I don't know (for example he does play the guitar very well so he may have been in a band once, but definitely not the one he claims to have founded!)

To be clear we will in any case have an ongoing social relationship of some sort due to being close neighbours and so it is in that context that I feel simply 'blocking' him doesn't really seem a good solution.

Am I as crazy as he is?

So you're saying get help and then we'll see, and he's saying keep on dating and I'll get help.

The dysfunction arising from his family's issues likely goes way beyond what you've noticed.

This relationship is doomed.

Go to therapy yourself and figure out why you're a co-dependent.

This is very insightful and it feels true.

I've been thinking he is extraordinary and rare.

But as you say the local Wetherspoons is full of them. He's boringly predictable and pathetic.

God this thread is helping.

Drop the fantasist and go to therapy.

Look up Fear, Obligation, and Guilt (FOG) and see if it rings bells.

Also read Melody Beattie's "Codependent No More".

Relationships or friendships need to be emotionally safe and this man can offer you neither. What sort of friendship can you ever have with a man who pathologically lies and feels no shame or remorse about it. There’s something really wrong with him, and I think it’s triggering something in you that you want to support him.

Thanks @mathanxiety I've had therapy for a long time both psychoanalytical and CBT.

As anyone who has will tell you the way the term is casually bandied about here as some sort of fix is incorrect: it increases our self-awareness and gives us tools. It can't undo childhoods.

I really do hate the way we women casually say "get therapy" to each other on here. It comes across as lazy, judgmental and ignorant.

Having therapy is not a short term fix to an immediate problem and nor is it some sort of gurantee against your own self having it's same weaknesses for evermore.

But I thank you for the general sentiment to look inward.

The striking thing about people falsely claiming military service in the UK is that it is almost invariably an elite regiment, Marines, Paras, SAS. Anyone who knows the first thing about elite regiments knows that they are very, very small worlds and although he isn't doing it for financial gain, there is a likelihood he could come badly unstuck if he meets the wrong person, because genuine members/ex members (not that they ever really leave) of such regiments really don't like it.

Lying like that is impossible to treat because it’s a choice.

Professionals don’t take them on. There’s nothing to work with.

You’re probably thinking ‘if I can only find the real him, we’ll be together forever’.

The liar is the real him.

There are other types of fantasy merchant who aren’t doing it deliberately- alcoholics with frontal lobe damage, Alzheimer’s sufferers, stroke patients. Google confabulation.

Yes, there’s something weird there with DP mentally but it’s not weird in a good way. And not worthy of investment. Or fixable.

A very, very long time ago I was in a relationship with some who lied a lot and for no apparent reason. Not lying about being in the marines, of to see other women, just everyday boring lies seemingly with little or no benefit.

I was young and thought my love could save him etc etc.
After 18 months his lies were driving me insane. It caused huge arguments because I felt I couldn't rely on him so I ended it.

It was such a relief when my next boyfriend was a normal, reliable, non lying person.

I've often wondered why he lied so much. Looking back with hindsight he mentally jumped around a lot and found it difficult to finish jobs he'd started. I have wondered if he had some type of adhd.

But I am interested in any experiences of someone like this.

I was in a relationship with someone who was a paranoid schizophrenic for 2 years. We had known each other since our 20's and had a v brief fling then, but he was officially diagnosed after we broke up. We are now in our 50's and dated when I was in my 40's and he turned 50. We got in a relationship because he knew he was a schizophrenic, but handled things on a day to day basis very well.

He responded very well to drugs that he'd been placed on but insisted that some of the experiences he went through actually happened - they didn't. But the thing is, to HIM they were real. He experienced it as if it was real life - he told me about being a spy and a barrel of boiling oil beneath him and he could feel the heat and then the pain of being lowered into the oil and feeling it crackle his skin - he didn't think he'd survive - but then he would. So it gave him a feeling on invincibility, because he believed this had happened to him, even though it was un-survivable. This would be pointed out to him. He was very logical and truthful, so he accepted that it was likely a delusion.

He also said that he was very close with the band Def Leppard and had written one of their hits - photograph - which there was zero proof of, and also alongside Cheap Trick happened to be his favourite band.

It was a kind of bargaining with him about what was potentially real and what wasn't. This didn't really happen on a day to day basis with him any more because of the drugs, but his recollection was that these were real experiences. Very rarely, he told me something that was true but unbelievable - dolphins in a swimming pool for example - and he was right, that had happened!

I loved that he could be so honest and open about things. Some of his friends would challenge him on almost everything he said, but we had a very happy relationship, whilst it lasted. It ended because he found it just hard to have relationships generally... but honestly, he was one of the loveliest people I've ever had the pleasure with.

This is very close to the mark. He's told me a swimming with sharks tale and his band was Def Leppard-like.

Your post made me laugh and that's how his lies feel...almost like jokes. When challenged that in every story when I asked his age he said 19, and that everything couldn't have happened when he was 19, he frowned and said, "I don't think it can have. But I feel that it did. So I think I'm saying 19 because I'm not sure when it was but it wasn't recently. I think I need to write things down in order."

"I also came across one when dating many many years ago (also said he was an ex marine - what is it with being a marine?)"

Pretty common apparently and referred to as "Walts" (Walter Mittys) in the army, I believe. Usually claim to have been in an elite unit when they were either never in the Army at all, or only Private Potwasher for a year in the Little Rutlander regiment.

It's nice that you want to help him, but being an ex from a relationship that he didn't want to end spells trouble. I can see the boundary bashing from here.

Suppose a mutual acquaintance says, to him, oh I saw you out for coffee with BeautifulBouquet, I thought you had split up, and he says,
"Oh well we did split up because her dad is a gangland kingpin and disapproved of me and was going to organise a hit on me. But then I went to meet him in his tiger's den in London and he really liked me and he is paying for our wedding on Richard Branson's island next year, we got engaged last week". That's probably OK if the lie is outrageous enough and the acquaintance knows what he's like. But still. Not ideal.

Also, do fantasist men have a tendency to fixate on women they want to be romantically involved with and end up being stalkery or believing that they are (still) in a relationship or even that they are just absolute blood brother besties for ever and ever and ever rather than just friends?

@powershowerforanhour you have made me laugh my entire head off!

I think you make an excellent point with style.

It's going nowhere. Life is too short. Move on.

Honestly this guy is not even my type physically nor does he live in ways I find attractive (house is filthy).
I thought he was extraordinary
Honestly, get some self respect and stay away from
this guy. There are other clean truthful men out there.

You are not his saviour. You are not responsible for his lies. He does not need your ‘support’ - he needs consequences. And the consequence here is that you walk away. You do not owe him friendship. You do not owe him patience. You do not owe him your energy. He has never given you the truth, and he never will. Stop making excuses for him and put that energy into yourself instead.

And more importantly - why do you think this is all you’re worth? Why are you bending over backwards to justify keeping a liar in your life, as though this is the best you can get? You deserve honesty. You deserve someone who respects you enough to tell you the truth. Why are you settling for a man who has never even apologised for lying to you?

Have you posted about this before? I’ve read an almost identical post in the past- but had just started dating this guy

Love, at least allow yourself a human for a BF. This one isn’t.

This is OTT. The OP has some compassion for this friend. She's explained why. As long as she is aware of this mans shortcomings, then things should be ok.

Relative has a partner just like this, 15+ years later he is exactly the same. IMO people like that do not want to change, they cannot or will not accept who they are. The desperately sad part is watching my relative keep hoping for change while constantly being lied to.

Have you read the full thread?
All of the OPs replies??
None of this is healthy or will end well.

My relative often says things like: "supports me in my career, hobbies and other interests, who cooks for me and does other nice things and is highly appreciative of me." But is also drives away other people who will not tolerate such nonsense.

Why bother?

What is the point in you getting involved in all this and why would you want to? You aren't responsible for his mental health or his welfare, and your presence in his life is not going to 'rescue' him from it. He needs years of professional therapy.

I'll cut to the chase..how in fuck can you be arsed to listen to such drivel.
If he's mentally ill he needs professional help and not any amateur psychology tinkering from you.

Save yourself a lot of heartache and just walk away.

Pathological lying is a deep rooted problem. My ex was like this (he also said the marines lie, amongst many, many others). When I repeatedly confronted him he would look me straight in the eyes and say it was all true. I could provide evidence to him in black and white that it was bare face lies - and he'd double down, to the point I thought I was going crazy. He also had mother issues (abandonment) which also manifested in him being in constant secret text & phone contact with many, many females, seeking any female attention - that part is too long to go into. He also told me he'd seen therapists in the past who had told him he was untreatable - that was probably a lie too. You just end up not believing a single word they say.

I think they are so deep in the years of lying, that they themselves truly believe all the lies they have told. They really are un-helpable.