Dating a fantasist

[Beautifulbouquet]

I've been dating someone who I would describe as a fantasist / compulsive or pathological liar.

He treats me very well and he does not lie about day to day things.

He has however I suspect some years ago created a complete fantasy past life. This includes being in the Marines, being in prison multiple times, being in a famous rock band, inheriting a seven million pound apartment etc

I honestly am not sure about his grip on reality. The lies are so quickly disproved that they're almost comical. They also don't fit together...so he was similtaeously in the marines and in prison. The lies are repeated and highly detailed. When confronted about details he seems genuinely a bit perplexed himslef but insists everything is true.

It would seem that as a victim of a difficult childhood he created a fantasy life in his head and he has never grown out of that or confronted that. I'm aware that this may be related to head trauma, brain lesions or other neurological difficulties too.

I've said I can't keep seeing him but am willing to support him if he wants to try and work through these issues. I've said this because I can't see anyone else in his life helping him and I don't think he can do it on his own. He's the sort of person quick to help others, gentle and has never been in the slightest aggressive.

He's said he wants us to be together and that he needs some time to work on these issues. Difficult to know how genuine this is.

I'm not really interested in "what a lying bastard" responses (though of course please be honest) as this would genuiely seem to be beyond his control. None of the lies give him any obvious benefit...eg he doesn't lie to get money or anything else.

But I am interested in any experiences of someone like this. I imagine working through this will take him years in reality and that it will be painful for him. I'm not offering to be his therapist but I suppose I can help him try and document his past and find evidence for it and help him recreate his past. I can also show that the person he is now and his future is all that matters...these stories don't impress anyone and he doesn't need them. But really of course the work is for him to do.

He is aware that I don't believe the stories. Whether there is an element of truth to any of them I don't know (for example he does play the guitar very well so he may have been in a band once, but definitely not the one he claims to have founded!)

To be clear we will in any case have an ongoing social relationship of some sort due to being close neighbours and so it is in that context that I feel simply 'blocking' him doesn't really seem a good solution.

Am I as crazy as he is?

Watching Apple Cider Vinegar and the real interview with Belle Gibson is quite enlightening for seeing a compulsive liar in action.

Some of these answers were totally crappy. He is a human being, just a flawed one. She can be a civil neighbour or loosely friendly without being overly involved or having to mother or date him. OP isn't crazy, she just wants to help someone and isn't sure where to draw a line. Opinions will differ where but I would say keep it fairly tight.

I feel sorry for actual Marines or ex Marines trying to date. Given that they seem to be the male fantasists" choice of profession, the scepticism levels on dates must be sky high!

When I was younger, I had a boyfriend who made up this whole other life including friends, nights out etc. it was in the days before social media, so I couldn't prove these people didn't exist. I never met them, saw pictures of them or anything. When we broke up, he stalked me for over a year which was very frightening, although he did eventually get the message.
The only advice I can offer is to be very careful with this person and I hope it turns out ok.

I'd also add, when his lies are huge, you can spot them. You KNOW he wasn't a marine/didn't write a hit song/isn't friends with film stars. Those are usually fairly easy to disprove, whether you confront him with your proof or not.

But it all gets trickier when the lies aren't so big.The 'yes, I paid the electricity bill, this huge and elaborate gift I just bought you that totals the exact same amount that the bill is came from money I won when I gambled on the Grand National' is harder to disprove in the moment. And then the bailiffs start coming. Or the payday loans start creeping up.

My point is that people like this can mess up your entire life, ruin your credit rating and make it almost impossible for you to ever trust anyone again.

It may be that he's an undiagnosed schizophrenic then.

I think that reacting to someone like this by thinking they are 'rare and extraordinary' and by wanting to prolongue your relationship with them, is quite a worrying sign tbh. Either a bit of a saviour complex or a 'moth to a flame' fascination with damaged and potentially damaging people.

I've known two people like this - one was a friend's adopted dc, we know the biological mother was an active alcoholic. The child was not diagnosed with FAS and outwardly was a lovely child, but as they grew up it became clear that they really did not understand the difference between fantasy and reality. They believed things had happened which demonstrably had not.

The other is another friend's DC who does have schizophrenia - again, not lying as such - as they totally believe the fantasy world they have constructed for themselves. In their case medication has helped to remove the delusions.

I watched my friends desperately try to help their dc, but neither of them would even consider that they might be delusional . they were an energy back hole for their parents, endless effort and energy expended on trying to help them, but no clear benefit. Walk away. For your own sanity.

Lots to ponder. Very interesting to read about others with relatives with similar issues. Overall I sense he's done this since a child ( and has mentioned being sent to what I imagine is a pupil referral unit at about 14) and I sense he won't stop or get help.

I also think he has an issue understanding what is real and what is not that may be medical. I remember watching a film with him and asking if it was based on a true story. His reply was that yes it must be because the places in the film were real places. He literally didn't seem to get that some films are based on real things that happened and some films are made up. I gave up trying to explain this to him.

Can I help him? Probably not. But nor do I find him dangerous or threatening. The lies aren't an attempt to gain anything and someone here made a good point that to casual acquaintances whether they're true or not probably doesn't matter.

He has actually done some big favours for me, very graciously, gives free guitar lessons to another neighbour... mentors another neighbour's teenage kid who is having some issues... there's more to him than the fantasies and I honestly don't know how well he is able to distinguish fact from imagination not whether cocaine use in the past has damaged his brain.

Ah, I was going to ask about past drug use, as he reminds me of a couple of people I know and the most likely cause of their behaviour is past drug use.

My brother has ver major metal health issue which do stem from bad childhood experiences. But my brother is a terrible person and I wo't deal with him. Then I meet this guy and somehow I enter into this fantasy world.

I feel sort of captured by him somehow, like it's him and me against the world. Which is ridiculous! I have good long term friends. I should be horrified.

I'm glad you're already seeing a therapist, because I was going to suggest you talk these two paragraphs to one.

There's a characteristic some people have that seems like they vacuum you up into their world. It's really unsettling when you manage to realise and are trying to pick your way out, because the force pulling you to them is almost magnetic - but nothing good ever comes from that place, you really do have to drag yourself out of the force field.

It does strike me that you're a broadly sensible person, and I can't fully decide if I think you're being kind, sensible and pragmatic about this guy or if you're trying to be his saviour in an unhealthy way - I think there's a mixture of both going on.

I'd also like to draw your attention to a couple of psychodynamic models that might or might not be useful to you.

One is the Parent/adult/child model. In a nutshell, adult to adult is the optimal state for relating to another adult. But some people tend towards a parenting/caregiver role, and some people tend towards a child/victim role. Most of us can move freely between the different roles depending on the relationship and needs of any given interaction.

Somebody who tends towards child, tends to force others around them into a parent dynamic with them. And vice versa. I wonder if you might recognise this in your interactions with him at all?

The other model has a cross over with that one, and is the triangle of victim, rescuer, persecutor. You reminded me of this when you said it feels like you and him against the world - him as victim, you as rescuer, and the world as persecutor. You should be aware that if somebody has a pathological need to stay in a particular one of these, they will force you into one of the other two roles. And they can also switch which role they put you into too - so be on the watch out for being the rescuer one minute, and the next being made to feel like you're the bad guy.

Honestly I don't think that this can be helped. And what if he needs those lies just to cope with life? Could be profoundly destabilising for him if they were taken away.

@ThatAgileGoldMoose what a wonderful post.

The models are helpful.

If I'm honest I think we probably both were in the adult role. But if we'd dated longer who knows. I've ended this very early not because of issues we had but the very clear potential for them.

Guilty on rescuing...but I think what I'm comfortable with is being someone in our tight knit community who will be real with him. Who won't expose him to others (many believe the rock star past). Do I think he'll get help...no. But I can at least avoid the two bad alternatives of egging on the stories or publicly shaming him. We live in a small rural community and that influences the dynamics here.

The question no one has asked is...what else is going on in your life right now and do you have the resources? I have a lot going on and therefore limited resources.

There's a big difference between this guy and my brother. My brother has done some terrible things. My brother isn't a fantasist or liar but he has assaulted his own son, threatened to kill our father, tried to talk my Dad into killing himself...

My brother is malevolent. Drunk driving. Adultery. You name it.

This guy is a hippie vegan who I have never seen be aggressive (including verbally).

But I get your point I do.

Drugs isn't something I know much about but he told me early on he'd been a heavy coke user. This I do believe. And it may be a big part of why he seems so confused about everything that happened for a 10 year period of his life.

I'm not saying he isn't lying...as in wilfully saying untrue things...but for example the marines story...

This came about because a young man we know is wanting to join. The guy I was dating said you know there's a photographer who took photos of 17;year olds before they joined up and three years after... it's pretty eye opening. He then said as an ex marine he'd worry about someone joining up and the gap between what he hoped it would be and reality. It sort of came from concern about this kid we know.

I won't seek him out. I will see him around. And I can be a confidante and reality checkpoint so long as he isn't nasty to me or abusive, which he hasn't been.

I think that's all I ever meant.

Somebody like this man really shouldn’t be mentoring a vulnerable young person. Honesty, transparency and emotional stability are incredibly important when supporting troubled young people and he could do a lot of damage to their wellbeing and capacity to trust if he’s informally “counselling” them based on a pack of fantasies and lies and just as bad, appears to have trouble distinguishing fact from imagination. I actually think that is serious enough that you should make the young person’s family or guardians aware. He’s posing as something he is not.

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s “bad” and you might not find him threatening or dangerous - but actually, some of the things you’ve said in recent posts about insisting something has happened when it hasn’t and not understanding a distinction between real events and fiction could actually be potentially quite dangerous for you to get yourself mixed up in.

Why are you willing to be a reality check for a fantasist? Surely that's draining and damaging for you, you also don't actually know what's true and false.

Why put yourself in that position?

You don't have the skills or the professional distance to help this guy. You are enabling him and draining yourself. Why?

If he's calmer/Ok in certain situations, then you could have a low key friendship based on keeping him in those situations.

Don't be dragged into being responsible for him or in his inner circle.

No reason for you not to enjoy his company and pleasant nature. You don't owe him "fixing", just accept him as an occasional friend.

I have a long term friend who is quite intense and hard work in public venues...commonly gets anxious and overwhelmed and does or says random weird fantastical things...

I honestly avoid being out 1-1 in public with him now - many occasions where he decides to do things like randomly chase after a stranger and "assist" them 😬.

So I ended up feeling humiliated and having to cover for him...and he genuinely can't see his behaviour is odd? It's something in his innate psychology.

I'm not a hugely confident/high status person myself and feel I'm being dragged into an attention-seeking surreal show when out with him...

I told him a few times that if his behaviour leads to negative attention/hassle (which it has) I'm walking away and leaving him to it, but never sunk in!

That said, he's a kind helpful person and great going for walks.... practical things, watching a TV series at home together.

So we do that...

I used to feel quite guilty that I was only taking the good parts, and guilty I was embarrassed to be out with him? Like it made me a user.

But it was better than just rejecting him outright, and he hasn't noticed and doesn't care. He's got his own groups of people who don't mind he's a bit alternative.

We have a good peaceful connection having taken a step back - life is fine.

If he’s claiming to have been in the rock band The Fall with Mark E Smith, it’s probably true.

He sounds similar to someone I know. If you hadn’t said his dad is still alive I would have thought it was him.

Hes not claimed to me that he was in the marines but a similar outlandish story that he initially made quite believable.

He had this ability to meet new people and draw them in - making them feel sorry for whatever situation he’d got himself into this time.
He was like an emotional vampire. When he couldn’t get any more from you he would move on.

I didnt fall for it exactly - I knew something was different about him - he suggested he had BPD but looking back I think there was something more. Something else.

Is being a fantasist (who potentially believes his own lies) a diagnosable disorder ?

I've known people like this, a colleague seemed to make up past life stories. I don't know why. I don't think this made her dangerous but equally I couldn't be friends with that person let alone date them.

But I think you shouldn't be supporting them through issues. You've decided sensibly not to be with them, I'd just leave it at that.

I'm glad you found it helpful.

Limited resources is a very valid reason to not be his rescuer.

Just for clarity- I don't think he is the same as your brother. I suspect that you may subconsciously see an opportunity to help somebody who reminds you of your brother in some ways. Your brother wasn't reachable/fixable, but you believe this guy is(?) So you want to help him and stay in relationship with (not in A relationship with) him because it feels like it's meeting an old unmet need of yours. Perhaps. This is of course all armchair psychology on my behalf.

Just to gently prod the big where you say "that's all I ever meant" ... is that really true? Because you said quite a lot of words earlier on including the thread title that don't seem in alignment with that perspective. It might be that you have changed your mind through the course of the thread of course. And it might be that I'm wrong.

Xx

@Beautifulbouquet
Your brother and the fantasist are alike.

Neither is emotionally available to you.
Neither is just an easy relationship with no heavy lifting involved.
Both require effort on your part - to stay safe or to avoid getting sucked in.
Neither is capable at all of giving anything back to you.

So they're both "safe" in their own ways because you get to play a role you're comfortable in - the codependent.

Codependency is safe because it doesn't require that you trust someone with your heart.

FWIW I agree with you. MN seems to generally be quite a sceptical place where people are encouraged to block / abandon / run a mile if someone doesn’t measure up. Now, clearly it doesn’t sound like this guy is a great candidate for a BF and perhaps the fact he wants to be your BF makes you a poor candidate to help him (I’m not sure). However, trying to help someone when we feel we are able to is admirable. I can’t be of any use in terms of giving you advice for this guy but I wanted to say I think you’re doing the right thing to try and help. Good luck x

Helping would be to suggest therapy, and to get therapy herself.