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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Pressured by new man (TW: sa?)

126 replies

Kittylechat · 14/02/2025 07:04

Yesterday I went round to the house of a man I’ve been seeing so that we could spend some time together. I’ve known him a long time and always thought he was a good man. It was clear before I went round that I wasn’t going to be having sex with him and that only kissing was on the cards. He said he was happy with that and respected my decision.

Our meet up initially went well- I won’t go into all the details of what went on as it would make this too long- however, I left his house yesterday feeling unsettled, a feeling that grew over the evening, and I’ve woken this morning feeling very upset.

There were a number of things that are bothering me:

Whilst kissing he kept getting his penis out and asking me to kiss it. I said no, he said ok, and then minutes later he’d be saying it again. This happened repeatedly (5-10 times) during the couple of hours we were together. Even though I didn’t do it, I felt very pressured to give him oral sex.

Whilst we were kissing he kept trying to put his hand inside my knickers. I kept saying no and stop, and pushing his hand away with my hand. At one point he grabbed my hand and held it tightly so that I couldn’t stop him from putting his fingers inside me. He was so rough that I’m now swollen between my legs and I have period type crampy pain across my lower body and lower back.

We laid down together kissing, with him on top. Both wearing clothes. He got his penis out and pushed it against my knickers and asked if he could pull my knickers to one side and hold himself against my vagina. I said no and again he tried to just do it. I said no again and he kept trying to do it. I said stop repeatedly and tried to stop him with my hand and again he grabbed my hand to prevent me from stopping him. He then forced his penis quickly inside me- I wasn’t expecting it or lubricated enough and it caused me to cry out in shock. He withdrew immediately and made a joke out of it and said it didn't count because he only entered me briefly. He said he just wanted to know what it felt like being inside me.

Anyway, as I drove home I felt unsettled as he has been so lovely, kind and caring outside of this incident. I spoke to him on the phone last night about it and said I was upset and explained why. He got very upset and apologetic, but then said that saying no at a time when you’re both sexually aroused isn’t the same as saying no before you initiate sexual contact. I disagreed with him and he seemed confused about where I was coming from. I said I’d been clear before we met and during our time together and he’d ignored that. He also said I’d been giving mixed messages because I was kissing him and he knew I wanted to have sex with him. I said again that I’d made it clear before we met what I wasn’t going to be doing and I was also clear during our time together as I kept saying no and stop, and pushing his hand away.

Anyway, we cleared the air last night and he felt bad and kept apologising and saying he’d never do anything to hurt me. However, I slept really badly last night and I woke at 5am today really upset about yesterday. But I’m not sure if I’m overreacting. He kept making jokes about how much I wanted him and he could tell I wanted to have sex with him, and it was what we’d both wanted. And now I’m thinking I’ve just messed up and shouldn’t have muddied the waters by being alone with him or kissing him. Or I should have just left when he first started pressuring me. I knew I was uncomfortable but yet I stayed.

My head is a mess now and I feel terrible because of yesterday, and terrible that I’ve upset him. But I’m also upset that he kept ignoring what I was saying and pressuring me, plus he penetrated me without my permission and without wearing a condom or knowing whether I was on birth control.

The whole thing seems a mess and I can’t think straight. I feel I’ve done something wrong and now he’s upset as well.

OP posts:
Sunglow1921 · 14/02/2025 10:34

I’m sorry this happened to you. You didn’t give mixed signals, you were very clear from the start and repeatedly said no. He kept pushing your boundaries and ignoring your requests to stop. Now he’s trying to manipulate you with his crocodile tears and put the blame on you. He is not a nice man.

Break it off with him and let him know why, then block his number. If you feel able to, report him to the police. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely anything will come of it, but at least there will be a record of what happened.

treesandsun · 14/02/2025 10:52

Please get some support and discuss this with someone who can help you. You did nothing wrong. He is a sex offender and a rapist. I think you need to report this to the police - whether they prosecute etc - it will mean there will be a record. You don't say how old he is but I very much doubt this is the first time he has done something like this.

Keep any messages he has sent but cut contact so he cannot mess with your head in terms of what happened.

ItGhoul · 14/02/2025 10:58

This is rape. He penetrated you with his fingers and his penis without your consent and he had no reason to believe you were consenting when you repeatedly said no and tried to stop him. I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I hope you can get some support. I personally would be going to the police about this, but of course that's entirely up to you.

highstoolfling · 14/02/2025 10:59

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I found it hard to read the part where he took out his own penis during kissing. So when I read on to the rest I was shaking for you. Just rotten. Please be gentle with yourself today and for weekend.
Your brain might try and rationalise all of this but your body won't forget. So traumatising for you.
Keep posting your thoughts here as you process.

harriethoyle · 14/02/2025 11:03

@Kittylechat could you message him saying you are upset about last night, had made it clear you didn’t want to have sex and are very upset that he ignored that. He may reply in a way which will endorse what you’ve said and that might help you pursue a police complaint if you want to Flowers

PaperAeroplane · 14/02/2025 11:20

I'm sorry op but he sexually assaulted you with his hand, used restraint and then raped you.
He is now gaslighting you to make himself feel better, he is a piece of shit. Have you got any friends/family who you feel you could talk to, or rape crisis are completely anonymous and will not pressure you in anyway way to report.

Everintroverte · 14/02/2025 11:20

As many previous posters have already said what happened was rape. I'm so sorry that this happened to you. You haven't done anything wrong.
Please please don't go anywhere near him again.

ForestFox44 · 14/02/2025 11:22

Hes crying to guilt you and convince you he didn't nothing wrong... crocodile tears because he infact raped you. Report and block. I'm really sorry you went through this x

Medusa75 · 14/02/2025 11:23

harriethoyle · 14/02/2025 11:03

@Kittylechat could you message him saying you are upset about last night, had made it clear you didn’t want to have sex and are very upset that he ignored that. He may reply in a way which will endorse what you’ve said and that might help you pursue a police complaint if you want to Flowers

That’s what I was thinking but he also needs to know this is not acceptable behaviour and last night was the last time he will see the OP. No talking, no tears. Clear message, clear boundaries by text - no gaslighting verbal conversation available.

AnonymousBleep · 14/02/2025 11:36

As others have said, that is rape. He's tried to gaslight you and minimise it, but penetrating you without your consent is rape.

I'm really sorry, OP. Up to you whether you report this, but block him now and don't see him again. He's NOT a good man.

AnonymousBleep · 14/02/2025 11:37

Medusa75 · 14/02/2025 11:23

That’s what I was thinking but he also needs to know this is not acceptable behaviour and last night was the last time he will see the OP. No talking, no tears. Clear message, clear boundaries by text - no gaslighting verbal conversation available.

He knows it's not acceptable behaviour. He chose to do it anyway. There's no point discussing it with him - either report him, block him, or both.

Medusa75 · 14/02/2025 11:48

AnonymousBleep · 14/02/2025 11:37

He knows it's not acceptable behaviour. He chose to do it anyway. There's no point discussing it with him - either report him, block him, or both.

I’m talking about communicating a clear message in text and then blocking. Then if this horrible man turns up at OP’s door, there is evidence that she clearly communicated no more contact, and why, before blocking him. I made the mistake of blocking someone without communicating this, and to see him at my window a few days later was most unwelcome. He knows not to do that now. Loud and clear.

NewDogOwner · 14/02/2025 11:55

I'm so sorry. He is a rapist.

AnonymousBleep · 14/02/2025 11:58

Medusa75 · 14/02/2025 11:48

I’m talking about communicating a clear message in text and then blocking. Then if this horrible man turns up at OP’s door, there is evidence that she clearly communicated no more contact, and why, before blocking him. I made the mistake of blocking someone without communicating this, and to see him at my window a few days later was most unwelcome. He knows not to do that now. Loud and clear.

Fair enough. I guess if she knows him socially, outside of dating him, she might need to let him know why she won't be seeing or speaking to him again.

User0103 · 14/02/2025 12:04

Kittylechat · 14/02/2025 07:58

I was confused because he was down playing it and joking, but then would start crying. And it made me feel bad for even bringing it up with him. I know you're all right. I feel sick.

I wonder if he was upset, because he’s done it before and got “into bother”, and knows what he’s at risk of?

TwistedWonder · 14/02/2025 12:06

You know what? Even if you had - in his words - been giving mixed signals, the fact is you said NO.

That’s the only signal that matters. No means no - absolutely no ambiguity and he knows that

Emptyandsad · 14/02/2025 12:12

a. He raped you
b. He's gaslighting you so that you will doubt yourself - all this talk of 'you wanted to have sex' when you were explicit both before and during, is to make you feel uncertain: "go on, you know you want to" when you know and have been clear that you don't want to. Before you know it it will change from 'weren't we crazy last night' to 'you were crazy last night'
c. He wants you to feel that he knows your body (and your mind) better than you do
c. He wants you to subordinate your desires to his
d. He will, if you let him, do this again and escalate it to bigger abuse

Please don't see him again. If you don't cut him off he will manipulate you psychologically to allow him access to your body whenever he feels like it

If you can bear it, report him to the police; maybe talk to one of the rape support organisations to talk through how you feel and what you want to do about it, if anything.

Crazybaby123 · 14/02/2025 12:21

You were raped and sexually assaulted OP. This is not OK. Never see this man again. If you feel up to it, report him if you can.

Redruby2020 · 14/02/2025 12:28

Kittylechat · 14/02/2025 07:58

I was confused because he was down playing it and joking, but then would start crying. And it made me feel bad for even bringing it up with him. I know you're all right. I feel sick.

Really sorry you've gone through this.

In response to what you are saying, of course he will play it down, in his head it's okay. Then him getting upset, maybe he does feel bad but only because you've brought it up, plus to make you feel wrong and try and put you off making an issue of it, he is pretending to be upset, which he has nothing to be upset about, it didn't happen to him!

Please as others have said, get some support, to help you deal with what has happened and decide your next steps.

Kittylechat · 14/02/2025 14:50

I messaged him earlier to reiterate what I said to him last night and he responded saying "I feel sick at what you're saying. It was in the moment and I got carried away. I feel terrible that I've hurt you. I hate myself. I'm so sorry. I can't forgive myself". I've screen shot it and blocked him.

Thank you all again for your support- it's given me clarity about the whole situation and now in hindsight I can think of a number of ways he's been chipping away at my boundaries and not accepting the word 'no' since we first got involved with each other.

OP posts:
DancingLions · 14/02/2025 14:57

I won't repeat the good advice that's already been given. But please send the screenshot to a trusted friend and/or email it to yourself.

I'm speaking from experience here. I had similar evidence and the police lost it and then my phone broke. Without a backup, it completely messed up the case.

I agree with everyone else though. He raped you. You did absolutely nothing wrong. In no way is any of this is your fault.

theallotmentqueen · 14/02/2025 15:07

Since he penetrated you, this is rape I'm sorry to say. You did absolutely NOTHING wrong - you were incredibly clear in communicating, both before and during. There's no way in hell he can write this off as a 'micommunication'. For context, there's a really good acronym I like to use when thinking about consent. It's a bit clunky I know, but is useful when trying to sort out how and why what he did was wrong. Consent should be

F - Freely given. So without any kind of pressure/coercion. So him asking you to kiss his penis repeatedly is an example of coercion because you had already said 'no', so he was still putting pressure on you.

R - Reversible. You are able to change your mind at any time. So for example, even if he genuinely believed that by kissing you had given consent to sex, you saying 'no' is you clearly withdrawing consent. Consent isn't a blanket 'yes' at the start - it has to be constantly negotiated.

I - Informed. E.g. you should tell someone if you have an STD and are going to sleep with them, as they might not consent to the risk of being exposed to the STD - they need to consent to that. Another example might be only consenting to sex if the person is wearing a condom, and then they secretly take it off.

E - Enthusiastic! You don't have to be leaping around for joy, but you have to give a clear and affimative 'yes'. This can be done both verbally (yes!) and through body language (leaning in, reciprocal action, etc).

S - Specific. E.g. if I consent to kissing someone, that doesn't mean I consent to them touching my genitals - they have to get consent for that.

As you can see, this man has broken ALL of the consent 'rules'.

F - He didn't even ASK for consent, let alone see if it was freely given

R - you said 'no' multiple times, he didn't listen.

I - he entered you without a condom (plus the point is moot as you didn't consent in the first place)

E - saying 'no' multiple times is very clearly not enthusiastic.

S - His claim that you were kissing him and therefore this means that you wanted to have sex with him is bullshit. You consented to kissing him and that's IT, that absolutely doesn't mean you gave consent to anything else. You didn't 'lead him on', he deliberately and callously overrode your boundaries.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. There are a number of paths you can take from here.

  1. Police - you might want to consider reporting this. See if you can get written evidence (e.g. in a text) of him admitting to penetrating and touching you without your consent. This could be done in the form of you asking him for a proper apology/asking to clarify what occurred.
  2. If you don't want to go police route which I do understand as it can be long and tricky, you should still find help for yourself. A lot of SA/rape charities give counselling and other forms of support to survivors for free, and it's very good - I know, because I've had this counselling myself.

I am so very sorry that this happened to you.

Kittylechat · 14/02/2025 15:17

theallotmentqueen · 14/02/2025 15:07

Since he penetrated you, this is rape I'm sorry to say. You did absolutely NOTHING wrong - you were incredibly clear in communicating, both before and during. There's no way in hell he can write this off as a 'micommunication'. For context, there's a really good acronym I like to use when thinking about consent. It's a bit clunky I know, but is useful when trying to sort out how and why what he did was wrong. Consent should be

F - Freely given. So without any kind of pressure/coercion. So him asking you to kiss his penis repeatedly is an example of coercion because you had already said 'no', so he was still putting pressure on you.

R - Reversible. You are able to change your mind at any time. So for example, even if he genuinely believed that by kissing you had given consent to sex, you saying 'no' is you clearly withdrawing consent. Consent isn't a blanket 'yes' at the start - it has to be constantly negotiated.

I - Informed. E.g. you should tell someone if you have an STD and are going to sleep with them, as they might not consent to the risk of being exposed to the STD - they need to consent to that. Another example might be only consenting to sex if the person is wearing a condom, and then they secretly take it off.

E - Enthusiastic! You don't have to be leaping around for joy, but you have to give a clear and affimative 'yes'. This can be done both verbally (yes!) and through body language (leaning in, reciprocal action, etc).

S - Specific. E.g. if I consent to kissing someone, that doesn't mean I consent to them touching my genitals - they have to get consent for that.

As you can see, this man has broken ALL of the consent 'rules'.

F - He didn't even ASK for consent, let alone see if it was freely given

R - you said 'no' multiple times, he didn't listen.

I - he entered you without a condom (plus the point is moot as you didn't consent in the first place)

E - saying 'no' multiple times is very clearly not enthusiastic.

S - His claim that you were kissing him and therefore this means that you wanted to have sex with him is bullshit. You consented to kissing him and that's IT, that absolutely doesn't mean you gave consent to anything else. You didn't 'lead him on', he deliberately and callously overrode your boundaries.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. There are a number of paths you can take from here.

  1. Police - you might want to consider reporting this. See if you can get written evidence (e.g. in a text) of him admitting to penetrating and touching you without your consent. This could be done in the form of you asking him for a proper apology/asking to clarify what occurred.
  2. If you don't want to go police route which I do understand as it can be long and tricky, you should still find help for yourself. A lot of SA/rape charities give counselling and other forms of support to survivors for free, and it's very good - I know, because I've had this counselling myself.

I am so very sorry that this happened to you.

Thank you. This is really useful. There were many elements to the situation yesterday, and I was struggling to order my thoughts and identify everything that was wrong about it or what had made me feel uncomfortable about it. Your post highlights all the ways he abused me and my trust.

OP posts:
Ohnobackagain · 14/02/2025 15:46

He is disgusting @Kittylechat - no means no, whenever you say it.

harriethoyle · 14/02/2025 15:53

Excellent post @theallotmentqueen - and well done for getting that text response @Kittylechat