February 2025 Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A new thread indeed!.

You are utterly correct Binkie there's no point. They're just such self serving people who happily throw their kids under the bus.

Don't walk RUN

They are bonkers. I see now what was happening with us. I was an outsider and I was being manipulated to be jealous of what they have. After all people only want to be part of something if it’s something good to be part of. Only I don’t lol. They all self serving show offs with the depth of a puddle.

Thank you @binkie163 @Happyfarm @Dogaredabomb.

its so painful and the realisation that as long as she is in my life I am going to be in pain is drawing me away, I hope one day I can go fullt
NC but for now I am enjoying finding myself.

And she is totally nuts, she left a gift for my kids and some money outside my door a few weeks ago, with no note and avoided my calls for days afterward. I had no idea it was her and was calling to see how she was, but at that time she would have known that she had left the gift and purposely ignored me. She then said she was in the area - she lives an hour away so it was a lie. She is actually batshit and I am finally seeing her pathetic games are just to get my attention.

It’s such an odd way around gaining attention. If you want attention why not just knock on the door, hand over money and play with kids, voila everyone’s happy. They are so very disordered in the ways they try and gain attention and it’s so very underhand and avoidant.

I know, it’s so crazy and such a waste of my energy trying to figure her out. She has been honestly such a terrible grandmother, the rare times I have spoken to her she has never said she misses them or that she wants to see them, there is literally no love lost between them. I’m just sad that my kids don’t have a grandma figure in their life as mil passed away a few years ago and she was the most amazing grandma.

My mother has no real connection with my kids. Barely speaks to them, makes no effort. It's honestly like they are a different species. I know my kids don't care, but it makes me feel a bit ashamed. Sometimes I feel like to have to compensate for my kids having no extended family on my side. But at the same time, I know I've done the right thing in keeping them away from my family. It can't end with me if I inflict them on my kids.

If it's any comfort all my GPs were dead before I was born and I truly never felt the lack

I dislike shame. None of it is our fault so why we have to feel this I don’t know. I am ashamed I was abused and forced to have sex by my ex amongst other things, which is ridiculous really because he was the one who did it. Society is terrible with directing shame. Every time you hear about a rape victim you will get comments about what they were wearing or they led them on.

I totally get that. I am starting to understand that it’s our perception of what grandparents are that I think they are missing out on. They don’t know what they don’t have and they are loved and thriving.

You shouldn’t have to carry that shame, it’s not your fault. It’s sounds as though you have done the best thing for them at shielding them from the toxicity. I think we can agree it’s sad, I sometimes say to myself ‘I wish things were different’ which both acknowledges it and rids me from the responsibility.’

Families are heavily promoted in the media. Most children’s film talk about the importance of family bonds and together they can do anything. It is true, it’s so much easier with a family behind you. My friends who have childcare support etc are doing well, going to work and have more money and less stress.

Do you think that shame leads us into a cycle of trying and needing to prove our worth via behaviours like people pleasing etc? Shame is at the core of narcissism isn’t it? I guess that’s an easy believe to pass onto our children that we need to please to be liked.

Cheekysnake

re your comment

"My mother has no real connection with my kids. Barely speaks to them, makes no effort. It's honestly like they are a different species. I know my kids don't care, but it makes me feel a bit ashamed".

My mother and father are the same. There is no real connection between they and my son, or me for that matter. I was basically trusted, i.e left, to get on with it from around the age of 15; I only realised that many years later. My son is now an adult so this goes back many years. They like us and there has been no row but they wanted absolutely no responsibility. I do not feel ashamed and nor should you really because their behaviour is no reflection on you as a person. I feel somewhat hurt and angry instead even now but they have also between them taught me how not to behave.

My mother spent more time cleaning my brother's 2 bed house (he is single with no dependents) when DS was younger. He and I at that time lived in the same town. Now he's moved a few hundred miles away she can no longer do that and she is now in her 80s.

https://katemunden.com/toxic-shame-after-narcissistic-abuse/#:~:text=How%20Shame%20Becomes%20Toxic,rather%20than%20highlighting%20a%20behaviour.

this link may be helpful to you Happyfarm.

@AttilaTheMeerkat it's strange, isn't it, how they can be so disconnected. My mother just doesn't seem bothered. She was possessive to the point where it got a bit weird with the eldest as a baby but was never interested in the youngest and didn't even try to hide it. It made me realise that she'd never been that interested in me, really, either, beyond what service I could provide. In hindsight I can see that parenting of me stopped when I was about 10, and what I had prior to that wasn't exactly great.

I talked a bit in my previous post about the terrible shame that I feel regarding my family (and myself, in a lot of ways). I know, logically, that the shame isn't mine, but I feel it anyway. It was something the therapist picked up on last year, that I am carrying this terrible weight of shame and low self esteem. It was quite difficult - I was always aware that it was there but thought that I was hiding it and other people couldn't tell (because I'm ashamed of the low self esteem). Clearly I was wrong. I am trying to work on it this year starting with not judging myself for it, though it's hard. There is so much rot in the family on both sides.

Very interesting. I’ve been listening to myself a lot more lately instead of spiralling into self blame. I’ve realised my thinking is not based on my present situation but it’s been stuck in the past. I don’t trust any of my relationships with anyone really and project my feelings that relationships aren’t safe because those I’ve loved have hurt me. Nothing has been feeling safe and I’m no longer certain that what I think is actually true. I also know that not everyone in my life is abusive so I’m the one with the issue. I want relationships but I don’t trust them.

My eldest son said that he's sorry for me that my mum didn't love or like me and he can't imagine how that feels. I said to him that's very kind to think about me but not to feel sad because I don't know any different and it doesn't bother me.

And it doesn't /didn't bother me that she didn't like me. I did my best to slide under the radar and do my own thing from very young. She always, from as far back as I can remember, made me feel quite sick. Then I thought about how I don't miss them AT ALL and does it mean I'm a sociopath?

I don't think so. After I cut contact with my father I never missed him once. I felt relief, and then eventually I felt nothing. Within a couple of weeks I couldn't remember what he looked like. I still can't, even if I try. My guess is that my brain somehow cut off those memories as a form of self protection. I don't miss my mother either, although I barely see her. I don't think I'm a sociopath.

I would like it to be different but not with them, iyswim.

Thanks cheekysnake I think that's a good point. I can't remember what they look like either! It must be like childbirth where you weirdly forget the pain and have a brain wipe.

Reckon we don't miss them because there's nothing there to miss. I've moved far away from close friends decades ago and inevitably lost touch and miss them. I miss the family members I get along with but don't live close to. I've had pets die and I still miss them years later. I imagine you're the same? It's not that we lack capacity to miss people it's just that we don't miss narcs and enablers because they add nothing positive to our lives, all they do is detract from it. I feel sad that it's that way. I wish it wasn't. I wish I could miss them. I wish there was something to miss.

Oh you're so right, one of my dogs died almost three years ago and I miss him dreadfully and still shed a tear. But he was amazing and loved me so I guess that's the difference 😁

I’m pretty sure to be a sociopath you have to not care about anything and get satisfaction from hurting people.

Does everyone go through life wanting to be viewed a certain way and be liked and accepted? If your parents loved and accepted you unconditionally do think those people feel rejection less are less effected by it/they don’t actively seek it. Rejection as a child has fuelled all the decisions in my life up until now. It’s been the centre of all my thoughts and actions. I always thought it was the ADHD but I think it’s because of my mum. It causes a deep wound and I can empathise with narcs a little in their desire to avoid this feeling at all costs (not what they do to others). I wonder if a lot of people avoid this feeling.

I think the majority of people want to be liked by some other people at least some of the time, but if you've grown up with normal parents, that desire is subconscious because you naturally expect to be liked by some people some of the time. For those who didn't grow up with normal parents, where being 'liked' was something you had to earn through behaving in a certain way, it's different because we've been trained to believe that we can't be liked just for ourselves, but only for what we do. I use the term liked loosely here, as I'm not sure I could describe what I got from my parents as actual 'liking.' I don't think either of them did/do like me very much. There were rewards for behaving in a certain way, but it was always clear that the rewards could be withdrawn at any time and for any reason. And because it could be withdrawn at any time, we're left with trust issues, because if people do show they like us, we're constantly waiting for it to be withdrawn, and sometimes even will behave in ways that make them stop liking us in order to make this familiar pattern play out. But this can be changed, with time and conscious effort, so that we're less afraid of rejection and it's not such a big deal. It stings for a bit and then you move on. That's the healthy way. Accept it will sting a bit sometimes, but that's ok, you can handle it. It's impossible to avoid rejection. It's part of life.

I watched something the other day where it was said that the thing you need to understand about narcissists is that they perceive themselves as victims. They don't view their behaviour as cruel or manipulative. They genuinely believe that other people are deliberately working to ruin things for them, leaving them no choice but to behave badly, which is why they're so fond of saying 'look what you made me do.'

Oh that brings back all the lovely memories from my ex, the perpetual victim. He used to go up to people in the street (innocent people) and shout at them that they were looking at him funny. He attacked everyone as-well as me. It was awful. I loved him and he treated me like I was purposely trying to hurt him. It was very difficult because my ND made me behave in certain ways that was to do with me and he twisted everything to make it about Me doing it to get at him purposely. Eg I hated busy restaurants and he decided that busy restaurants was his favourite thing and I was purposely withholding this from him. Umm it was actually about me not you.