AIBU to think that most relationships will end with an OVERLAP with a new relationship.

[morningpaper]

I don't get this thing on MN whereby married people are expected to end marriages before embarking on other relationships.

This idea of people (except you always mean 'woman' ) being "slappers" if they enter relationships with married people makes me think lots of you have very little understanding of how relationships work.

• To be blunt, I would be FAR more upset if DH left me for a lonely life as a single person in a bedsit than for a new relationship. I think the former is FAR more insulting. I have a close friend whose husband did this and it was MORTIFYING every time people said "Oh darlng, was there someone else?" and she had to say "No" (unspoken message: 'I am just too horrific to live with').

• People need support when they end relationships - and that support often comes from a new relationship.

• If people ended every marriage at the first sniff of new romance, or at the first feelings of dissatisfaction, then none of our relationships would last more than a year or two! It is often a new relationship that gives people the impetus to re-evaluate their lives.

• Most relationships become very "stale" after a certain amount of time - society tells us we must WORK at our relationships after the desire has gone, but WHY? Why not just accept that our partners or ourselves might be MORE happy in a new relationships - we have changed and grown, after all.

I have several friends in relationships with married people - and I expect a lot of you do, too, but they probably don't tell you because you are so HORRIFIED at the idea. Such relationships generally end in a lot of DESPAIR but they are part of life.

When you talk about "ending relationships before starting new ones" it sounds to me just like people who talk about not having sex before marriage - a great ideal (perhaps), but not realistic for 99% of people.

My dp was one of the fattest in the school and had hardly any friends.

MadameZ, that's a good point. It most often has the effect of making a man more considerate and thoughtful etc... but occassionally a man who 'blossomed' late in life will go on a mission to fcuk the world.

It's true that average-looking people have to work at their personalities more. I used to go to parties with my doll-like flat mate who was conventionally pretty (and blonde). There was a queue of men elbowing eachother out of the way to get to chat to her. In her company, I was always ignored initially as the less attractive friend. But after an hour or so I found I had equal attention, at least from the more intelligent or interesting of her 'suitors' who'd been chatting to us for a while. Is this making sense?! I think it's exactly the same for men.

I was chaated up a Uni by the 'looker' of the campus, it went like this
Him: Hi, you're x right?
Me: Yes
Him: I'm Richard, just in case you didn't know
Me: No, hello.
Him: Hi...
And then he looked at me for about 5 minutes expecting me to speak with a vacant smile.
Me: (After such a long wait) Do people call you Dick? (and walked off)

madamez- actually, I don't think I am highly monogamous! Far from it. No, I just want someone with the looks of say George Clooney and the brain of Einstein, plus a silly sense of humour. Oh and kind and caring too.

Plus of course, if I did stray, I think I'd need to be very unhappy with my husband and would need to think seriously about what to do next.

I can't think of anything I'd hate more than a shag with no emotional connection, and before you ask, yes I have, and it was meaningless.

Not saying I have to be in love,or love them, but there has to be some emotional connection.

In my work, I meet lots of people who confess to multiple affairs and partners- generally they come to see this as a sign of a lack of self-esteem ,as each shag/new man adds to their self-worth - for a very short time. They are usually very insecure and unhappy, deep down.

I dare say there are women who approach sex like many men can- just scratching an itch- but they are few and far between IME. Usually there are deeper issues.

Just to qualify any perceived contradiction- I am not monogamous in my head- I just don't act on it!

i dont fancy many people either..i am always surprised at how people say people like david beckham and george clooney are fanciable

tho once i get to know someone i will fancy them more

but the immediate fancying thing is few and far between

The only couple of celebs I think are yummy are Jared Leto, Peter Petrelli (character not actor)

re: recent discussion.. I've wondered lately if women and men who marry the "lookers" stray later, because they meet the lovely sweet nerdy people who they wouldn't have looked at in teens and twenties -- and not being young and shallow any more are very vulnerable to the kindness and consideration they might be shown.

Now there's a sweeping generalisation.

I think Vernon Kaye and Dermot O'Leary are two slebs who have very attractive personalities as well as being attractive.

Stuffitall. My old flatmate was torn between two girls. Highly amusing for the rest of us in the house, laughing at his ridiculous comings and goings. He liked to be seen out and about with MissPretty, but he wanted to go on holiday or to a quiet country pub for sunday lunch with MissPersonality. AFter after four years of being a dithering arsehole to both of them, he is married to MissPersonality. I hope they're happy!

is there a kind of silver lining here somewhere once you get older they can only be seeing you for your poersonality?

I think we should hold that thought zip

just to ask, is it only me (apart from the eminently sensible madamez) who WOULDN'T mind if her long term partner had the odd shag on the side...as long as I didn't have to know about it?

I just think there are far worse things you can do...and I suppose I don't really believe in monogamy though I do believe in companionship etc. In fact I suspected he was seeing someone, just before we separated, but was more angry about the fact that he was staying out for weekends leaving me with the kids. He swears blind he wasn't, but that matters less to me than all the other problems.

OK so I am probably totally nuts, and yes my marriage is probably over, but not for THOSE reasons.

Just to add- the question today in The Times Body and Soul is about herpes.

It is worth reading, if only to find out that it CAN be transmitted when the partner is not showing signs, and that many carriers are symptom-free.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Click on Life and Style, or search Body and Soul.

I've only read the OP, but personally I've never understood people who do the overlapping/ serial relationship thing. it seems a bit insecure and needy to me, tbh. I was with my ex for 7 years, it wasn't really working, we couldn't make it work, we spilt up, amicably. I spent a glorious year being selfishly single, doing what I wanted when I wanted, and having no one else's feelings to factor in if I wanted to suddenly go off on a girly holiday etc. I was determined that I wasn't going to give it up unless someone amazing came along. He did.

I was talking to a friend the other day who is similar to me, and we both agreed that if our current dh's suddenly left or died we wouldn't be bothered about finding anyone else. I don't understand the need for having an "other half". I'm with dh cause I love him. it wouldn't occur to me to look elsewhere because I'm married, and I just take it for granted that I made that comittment and am still happy with it. If I found myself looking elsewhere, I would reevaluate my current relationship and either try to save it or let it go. My dh is in the forces, so I spend a lot of time on my own with my kids, and I actually quite enjoy it!! Why are people so afraid of their own company?

good post joolyjooly.thats pretty much how i view relationships now.

i was atlking to a friend today who is with a total p**k of an excuse for a man,but she wont leave him as she doesnt think she could manage on her own as she has no family(even though he does f all with the kids).i can recognise that feeling-when you are with someone who's erroded your self-esteem into non-existence you tend to think you will never find anyone else.i was like that with xp,but i still didnt have an affair.i would have been as bad as him if i had.

I don't think that's the point that the OP was making.

I THINK it was along the lines of "Why are MNs intolerant when relationships overlap". ie.there have been a few posts recently where MNs have met other men, and are in a jaded relationship. They are on the brink of an affair and not sure what to do. The usual comments are : sort out your marriage/relationship, then move on.

That is perfect advice- but it doesn't always work, as people do end up sometimes going off with the OW or OM. Sometimes the fact that they are attracted o someone else is enough to give them a wake-up call to either sort out the marriage, or move on.

Not saying any more, as we will just round and round in circles.

totally agree joolyjooly
I think blaming the OW/OM is a different discussion. I would ALWAYS blame my OH, NOT the OW. I would hate them, sure, but they didn't make a commitment to me

I can't remember if this got mentioned earlier down the thread but: if someone is in a really awful relationship (physical and mental abuse) then it is often only through meeting someone else that they find the strength to get out of the old relationship. Because when someone is in an abusive relationship they often can't summon up the energy to change things unless they have some outside help.
Also, if a partner is an abuser, then being 'cheated on' is no less than he/she deserves.

have to agree with you there,madamez,to an extent anyway.often abusers tell their victims that they are lucky to have them as no-one else would put up with them etc and its only the discovery that other people actually do find you attractive that can set you on the path to freedom.

Morningpaper I'm shocked to read your original post (apologies and lots of ahems as I'm sure the conversation has moved on since then but I don't have time to read 600+ messages). I'm shocked because I've always found you to be very thoughtful and insightful on MN. The reason for working at a relationship is that it makes them even better than ever! That's it! It's like your career, or training for a sport - if you had career ambitions you wouldn't give up at the first hurdle, would you? Why should relationships (romantic or no) be any different?

Are you just playing devil's advocate here?

a bit