AIBU to think that most relationships will end with an OVERLAP with a new relationship.

[morningpaper]

I don't get this thing on MN whereby married people are expected to end marriages before embarking on other relationships.

This idea of people (except you always mean 'woman' ) being "slappers" if they enter relationships with married people makes me think lots of you have very little understanding of how relationships work.

• To be blunt, I would be FAR more upset if DH left me for a lonely life as a single person in a bedsit than for a new relationship. I think the former is FAR more insulting. I have a close friend whose husband did this and it was MORTIFYING every time people said "Oh darlng, was there someone else?" and she had to say "No" (unspoken message: 'I am just too horrific to live with').

• People need support when they end relationships - and that support often comes from a new relationship.

• If people ended every marriage at the first sniff of new romance, or at the first feelings of dissatisfaction, then none of our relationships would last more than a year or two! It is often a new relationship that gives people the impetus to re-evaluate their lives.

• Most relationships become very "stale" after a certain amount of time - society tells us we must WORK at our relationships after the desire has gone, but WHY? Why not just accept that our partners or ourselves might be MORE happy in a new relationships - we have changed and grown, after all.

I have several friends in relationships with married people - and I expect a lot of you do, too, but they probably don't tell you because you are so HORRIFIED at the idea. Such relationships generally end in a lot of DESPAIR but they are part of life.

When you talk about "ending relationships before starting new ones" it sounds to me just like people who talk about not having sex before marriage - a great ideal (perhaps), but not realistic for 99% of people.

that is true lapin

Hmmm.. still going?

I was about 10 when my dad started having affairs. My mum only found out when one of their mutual freinds let her know that he was being referred to as 'the married Batchelor'. The great flaw in my Dad's way of being was that he did not discuss it with my mum. He knew that if she knew she would not be happy so rather than face the consequences he had affairs and let my mum carry on thinking everything was ok. They had 3 kids.

When he was questioned years later (After they divorced) about how he would have felt had my mum had affairs he replied 'oh but she wouldn't have'. I know for a fact he wouldn't have handled it well, and he just wanted his cake and eat it. He was a very involved dad until he started his affairs, at which point my mum was left with much of the childcare arrangements. When my mum got together with an old family friend (after she and my dad had separated and were living in different countries, my dad with a new girlfriend) he flipped.

I think some people (Not just men) think that it's all ok so long as you don't get caught, but perhaps these people should think about the lies they are telling and the betrayal.

oh mp you have been told to write abook

thats what people keep telling me

ah well of course no discipline is requitred to post on mn

So, sorry MP is mid affair ?
So all of this is a pretence for what is actually going on ?
Is the OP/ the thread creation, guilt ridden ?

middle of writing a book not the middle of an affair

oh shame

hee hee
dont ya just love misunderstandings?

hehehe

I still think that much misery would be avoided if people understood that there are different ways of conducting your relationships rather than acting as though lifetime monogamy is the 'best' with the default position that it's what everyone 'really wants' despite both what people say and how they behave demonstrating that it's not the perfect option for everyone. If it was more widely understood that monogamy is one of several options and that what matters is how you treat your partners in terms of kindness, fairness, politeness etc is what matters, not how many of them you have, then it would be better all round. I wonder what percentage of the suffering undergone by children of separated parents is down to this endless peddling of the Perfect Family as a heterosexual-monogamous one with the subtext that if this is not your family, your parents have Failed and you are a Freak (when, again, the reality is that many children have separated parents and it is never the child's fault).

But the monogamy fetish is a bit like superstition: the stupid person's default position on relationships is that 'everyone really wants and tries to have a monogamous relationship' and the stupid person's default position on superstition is 'everyone believes in some kind of Higher Power.' Both these opinions are stupid, lazy-minded and wrong.

I said 'condom use etc' Dittany. Sensible people use condoms, get themselves checked regularly and talk about the possibility of infection - and are careful with things like herpes which is not prevented by condoms (but is not transmissible when you're not having an attack). And FYI though anecdotal evidence isn't entirely convincing, I have had over 100 sexual partners and never contracted any kind of STI.

So in Madamez' view it's stupid to marry because monogomy is a fetish, but if you do marry, treat both spouse and extramarital lovers kindly, fairly, politely and all will be well.

So are we just not being 'true to ourselves' There are an awful lot of us then who want the monogomous relationship, are we all wrong?

And dont forget both parties are willing to enter into the marriage.

I think if you were to go along the 'natural' thinking - surely sex is only an act to re-produce not some lesiure activity. And once children do arrive we as a society have to have rules in order to form a society.

Whether we like it or not we live in a society where monogamy is seen as the norm.

I think some things are natural, as morningpaper says -- the urge not to be alone, or bored, or the urge to have more exciting sex.

But it doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to something more than fulfilling natural urges, and to see that there could be contentment and happiness in not fulfilling such natural urges -- which are often, naturally, extremely transient.

How can anyone build their happiness on the unhappiness of other people.

well said

When affairs occur - the people involved do know what they are doing and that it will cause pain to others - however much they try to justify it to themselves.

dont condoms prevent spread of stds then?

i thought they did

don't prevent herpes or crabs

COndoms don't prevent herpes or crabs, they give good protection against most other STIs - and against unwanted pregnancies. THey are not infallible because nothing is infallible. And the levels of risk of contracting an STI vary with every sexual encounter and consist of multiple factors such as, exactly what sexual acts occur, whether or not condoms/spermicide/dental dams are used and whether any of the participants are fibbing about their sexual health. What sensible material I have read about the increase in STIs seems to be more about binge-drinking teens behaving idiotically and having very risky and barely consensual sex.
Monogamy is a fetish (ie it's an essential component to having a sexual relationship) - that's not a bad thing, it's just not a universal one. I do not think that monogamy or marriage are wrong (though they are not things I want any more than I want to keep pets, have a nose job or learn how to play bridge - fine for other people but not my cup of tea, thanks).

madamez- just out of curiosity, how do you know you have had over 100 partners-do you keep a tally, or is it on the basis of x number per week/month x years?

I'm always fascinated when people say this, as I am sure I'd lose track after the first couple of dozen!!

I think Stringfellow once said his total was 3000 Apologies if I am mis-quoting here) and I couldn't understand how he'd kept a note of them all.

I've just read all the newer posts and nothing I've read has changed my mind. I still think affairs are wrong. Oh well!

WWW well at least you kept up!

This has been a very enjoyable thread, I do enjoy a good MN debate, thanks all, it was very thought-provoking. Lots of interesting points of view.