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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

AIBU to think that most relationships will end with an OVERLAP with a new relationship.

628 replies

morningpaper · 06/05/2008 21:47

I don't get this thing on MN whereby married people are expected to end marriages before embarking on other relationships.

This idea of people (except you always mean 'woman' ) being "slappers" if they enter relationships with married people makes me think lots of you have very little understanding of how relationships work.

  • To be blunt, I would be FAR more upset if DH left me for a lonely life as a single person in a bedsit than for a new relationship. I think the former is FAR more insulting. I have a close friend whose husband did this and it was MORTIFYING every time people said "Oh darlng, was there someone else?" and she had to say "No" (unspoken message: 'I am just too horrific to live with').
  • People need support when they end relationships - and that support often comes from a new relationship.
  • If people ended every marriage at the first sniff of new romance, or at the first feelings of dissatisfaction, then none of our relationships would last more than a year or two! It is often a new relationship that gives people the impetus to re-evaluate their lives.
  • Most relationships become very "stale" after a certain amount of time - society tells us we must WORK at our relationships after the desire has gone, but WHY? Why not just accept that our partners or ourselves might be MORE happy in a new relationships - we have changed and grown, after all.

I have several friends in relationships with married people - and I expect a lot of you do, too, but they probably don't tell you because you are so HORRIFIED at the idea. Such relationships generally end in a lot of DESPAIR but they are part of life.

When you talk about "ending relationships before starting new ones" it sounds to me just like people who talk about not having sex before marriage - a great ideal (perhaps), but not realistic for 99% of people.

OP posts:
PosieParker · 09/05/2008 17:59

It does make me laugh that you don't believe in something that is true for many people, we're not talking about the jerk who talks about his wife and kids whilst banging his secretary it's about the couples like my grandparents who met in a queue for bread. They really liked the look of eachother and my gf would travel 15 miles on his bike to see my gm, they were poor and blissfully happy, they could not exist without eachother and when my gf passed away after 68 years of marriage my gm lasted 7 months. This is not uncommon for their genration because they didn't expect fucking miracles everyday, they really had their one true love.
Just because you haven't found the love of your life it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Perhaps when you more than window shop a lot the treasures you find are not quite so impressive.

PosieParker · 09/05/2008 18:00

generation

morningpaper · 09/05/2008 18:45

Posie your argument is that I haven't found my One True Love so I can't understand what the rest of you are going through.

There isn't much I can say to that - it is like arguing with Sleeping Beauty...

OP posts:
hls · 09/05/2008 18:48

I think PP and madamez will just have to agree to differ! It is after down to personal choice.

Talking of which MZ, your 100+ lovers- did you really fancy them all? I am fussy over my men and I have never met or fancied, let alone had sex with, over 100 men! and I'm well into middle-age....

PosieParker · 09/05/2008 18:57

I didn't say I'd found him I just know people who have, half the battle is belief. If you think you've found your soul mate, the one true love and you live happily together for many years then you have, if you live happily but never consider the one true love idea then you still have but choose not to name it!!
However I also know people who think they have found the one and no matter what stick with it, even when it's shit.

dittany · 09/05/2008 19:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morningpaper · 09/05/2008 19:25

lol Dittany thank feck we don't have chose - those both seem like AWFUL options to me

OP posts:
PosieParker · 09/05/2008 19:27

Incredible that you would think finding someone and falling in love with them and staying together happily for a long time is so awful. What time limit have you given your partner, until menopause? erectile disfunction? or until he finds someone better?

morningpaper · 09/05/2008 19:28

lol RP survived most of those already

OP posts:
morningpaper · 09/05/2008 19:29

There is a biiiig difference between "finding someone and falling in love with them and staying together happily for a long time" and thinking they are your "One True Love"

OP posts:
PosieParker · 09/05/2008 19:36

It's only words and how you interpret them, if they're binding no matter whatever happens then they're rather silly. A friend of my mother's is beaten by her 'one tru love' but cannot leave becaue he's her 'one true love' it's no worse than the woman who stays in a violent realtionship because she's stuck in a marriage.
MP, maybe your dh/dp is your one true love if you've survived all that but you just don't call it that. Come on allow for a little romance you hard woman!!

morningpaper · 09/05/2008 19:39

NO NO NO I SHALL NOT

OP posts:
Divastrop · 09/05/2008 20:33

madamez-i dont think you are in a position to comment on what it is like to be in love as you have made it clear you dont 'do' love.i wouldnt have a clue how it feels to be content with having multiple partners and never want to settle down with one person.why would you have a clue how it feels to meet 'the one'?

Twoddle · 09/05/2008 22:05

Interesting, thought-provoking thread.

Two infidelity scenarios:

(1) XP's parents divorced in his teens. For two years, they slept in separate bedrooms, argued a lot, and his mum repeatedly asked his dad to go into counselling with her. He wouldn't. The relationship was well and truly on the skids. She started a relationship with another married father. Their affair did the final breaking-up of two already broken families. 17 years on, they are still together and happy. I don't like what happened. Nor does XP. But on a level, I understand why it happened, respect her for doing everything she could to repair her marriage/family before it happened, and their "fling" has an integrity to it in that they found their soulmates in each other and are still together - they didn't just start shagging about. Plus they handled the split incredibly sensitively for the sake of the three kids they had between them.

(2) XP, on the other hand, left last autumn after a crappy year for the bachelorhood he never had and feels is his entitlement. Before we separated, he began a drunken fling with a random woman so that "when we split, I won't be alone, because you know me, I need affection". He booked a threesome with prostitutes because "I knew then I would have to go through with the split". And all so that he could be free. He would not entertain counselling (even though he always said he would during a strained time - he hated it that his dad wouldn't) because he expressly wanted to sleep around. I have not been replaced with a new, improved soulmate: a single life of casual sex is simply more appealing to him than being in/trying to repair our relationship and family, and that hurts a lot.

Unlike his mother's infidelity, his is a kind I cannot, on any level, understand nor tolerate. We were in a sexually exclusive relationship - he wanted to get married! So never mind "poor him" being incapable of monogamy - and for me, it is the deceit, his utter lack of respect or value for me and DS and our family, his irresponsibility and selfishness, and his lack of remorse and grief, that I cannot abide and which hurt so much. Pit of despair he has indeed created!

I agree with morningpaper and madamez in that monogamy is not for everyone; that polyamory or an extended shagging-around singledom are perfectly acceptable so long as all parties are consenting and content. I think choosing the latter option after creating a family is not on, frankly - and, if someone truly has an epiphany (which XP doesn't seem to have had) that they are non-monogomous once they already have a "committed" relationship and kids, there are ways to conduct oneself which are at least half-respectful to your partner and children.

The price of my XP's fleeting moments of happiness, as he hops from bed to bed, are a broken family, a confused and sad DS who doesn't understand why his daddy doesn't want to live with him anymore, an ex-partner (me) whose trust and self-esteem are pretty much obliterated, ashamed parents who feel they have "lost" their son, and a bewildered extended family and circle of friends who have lost respect for XP. How the hell is it worth it?!

madamez · 09/05/2008 22:09

Well, Divastrop, I have been young and stupid, and I have known other people be young (and older) and stupid and consider themselves in Love with people who were either highly unpleasant individuals and/or simply didn't return the love. My point is not that people don't feel romantic love: my point is that love is NOT an outside force beyond one's control, that there is not just One partner for everyone (there's a pool of available, attractive, mentally healthy individuals out there to choose from and a lot of it is to do with timing), and just because one person thinks they are in love does not put any obligation on the loved person to reciprocate.
Romantic love is an invention anyway: marriage was always a pragmatic institution (land, inheritance, offspring etc - and economic survival for women) Most of the classic romantic fiction/art/literature is about people who Fall in Love but end up either dead or separated.
I'm not denying that some people form couples and live happily for years: good luck to them. It simply doesn;t suit everyone and is only one of a range of possible options.

ranting · 09/05/2008 22:10

Hmmm, yes interesting position to take but, no I don't really agree but then I left it 5 years before I bothered to find another man after I left my ex, so I guess there will always be those who buck the trend.

I do find myself perplexed by the other woman thing though, particularly as the man is always at equal fault. And before everyone jumps on me, if he's DTD with another woman he is by default 50% responsible, so I would agree with the OP in that regard.

dittany · 09/05/2008 22:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hls · 09/05/2008 22:15

madamez- maybe you didn't see my post further down?

I am genuinely curious about your 100+lovers. I am soooo fussy about my men that I fancy very few. Do you genuinely feel attracted to everyone you have had sex with? Is it just a physical thing- a shag- or is there an emotional connection too?

And if it's not a daft question- how do you get to meet over 100 men you want to have sex with?

madamez · 09/05/2008 22:30

HLS, sorry, didn't mean to ignore you. Well, for a start, I am 43 which means the 100 was spread over more than 20 years (you could average it out at 4/5 a year, which may make it seem less startling...) Some have been people I had huge crushes on, some have been people with whom I was in love to some extent (love doesn't automatically involve sexual exclusivity either BTW), some have been 'oh why not' tumbles with friends, some spells of mutual horniness, some have been perhaps ill-advised. In very nearly all cases there has been mutual goodwill even if we are never going to meet again. As to the how-did-I-meet them I was always keen on clubbing and partying, going out 2/3 times a week before I had DS and if you don't go in for long relationships you simply have more time to meet more playmates.

morningpaper · 10/05/2008 09:25

I very rarely meet people I wouldn't like to have sex with

Everybody has SOME redeeming features

It is an interesting point that now we have choice in whom we marry, we choose to marry for love. Actually I think there is a subconcious economic element at play, even if we don't recognise it. Hence the hilarity of the fat woman with the thin man. We chose partners of similar attractiveness, and women often talk about their partner's earning capacity and ability to form a stable family unit - these are not explicitly economic, but there is no point denying that we are PURELY marrying those we fall in love with...

OP posts:
hls · 10/05/2008 09:39

well I rarely met anyone i could take to bed- apart from the fact that I am married and have been for 24 years!

Most men are in bad physical shape and are dull and boring. Sorry- but I am dead fussy!

PosieParker · 10/05/2008 10:40

I'm quite fussy about who I would sleep with or fancy, my dp is really good looking and all other bfs have been. Tall, dark and hansome. Perhaps that's where I'm going wrong!!!

madamez · 10/05/2008 11:15

HLS: basically it sounds like you are naturally highly monogamous, so because you are married your libido doesn't register other possible partners. So you might see someone fit walking down the road and think, hmm, nice arse or whatever, but then you wouldn't really think about it much more than that.
PP why do you think you are going 'wrong' in fancying handsome men? Have they always turned out to be sh*its to you?

PosieParker · 10/05/2008 11:22

Madamez, sometimes a handsome man is too busy admiring himself to take a glance at me!! Those have never lasted to be fair, but dp is a real looker and I worry, esp. being a stay at home mum and him being a boss, that he is quite an attractive offer to other women. However this may have nothing to do with his looks and a) my own insecurities or b) our relationship.
In truth and this is probably too personal and should have used a namechange but I think my dp was so blinding in bed a million miles better than anyone else that that really sealed it for me, I had had about 30 partners before and they were all pretty average.

madamez · 10/05/2008 11:32

PP I agree with you that sometimes very goodlooking people can be incredibly up themselves, but here is something I have found, particularly with regard to men.
A man who is a goodlooking adult but who was an unattractive teenager (spotty, too much puppy fat, braces, coke-bottle glasses or something) is often a wonderful partner because he didn't go through the absolutely poisonous stage some goodlooking teenagers hit, when they think that the whole world owes them anything they want simply because they are reasonably attractive. Someone who was once 'ugly' often has a lot more sensitivity to other people. Maybe your DP has an album full of horrible teen photos?