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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband says he wants to “build something new together” after he was violent

114 replies

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:25

It’s taken me years to admit to myself that I have not been in a good marriage at all. I came from a sheltered, Christian, conservative background and believed no sex before marriage was the most important thing, and I was not allowed to date until I finally left home in my 20s. I share all of this because it has taken me years to grow in understanding of what makes a healthy relationship and what compatibility even means.

I married my husband, and he shoved me once early in the marriage. I didn’t know much about DV back then, but I knew this was bad. I told him I would call police if he ever did that again. He then seemed to never do it again, so I thought it was in the past. He criticised me constantly after we were married. He also met up with another woman regularly and took her on outings after we were married. She acted like she was attracted to him, but he insists that it was not sexual on his side and that they never kissed or had sex. He also betrayed me constantly for many years by putting the demands of his mother and sister ahead of our marriage during times when a marriage or wife would have normally been prioritised. He let them plan his birthday (for example) and told me to follow their lead for multiple years even when I told him I was hurt and didn’t feel this was normal in a marriage. He put his single, childless sister first on Mother’s Day (doing what she wanted on the day) even though I had just given birth to our second child and clearly shared that I did not want to do the thing his sister wanted to do. He lied, manipulate, trampled, ignored.

I forgave, forgave, forgave because I thought that was the role of a Christian wife. I kept trying and kept praying.

finally, he had some scary acts of violence, including throwing a sharp object at me (when neither of us was even upset?!?!?) and other confusing acts such as throwing things at me front behind, and when I confronted him, he would say it was an accident until finally I knew it could not be an accident.

we have children and I have also been worried about the way he has treated them.

I finally called the DV hotline, then my GP, then social services and police. Apparently his level of risk is not high enough for me to be required to leave for protection of my children. But I want to anyway. I am still living at home with him and trying to save up to leave.

finally, when I tried to leave, he began to attend counselling for myself. I have seen some improvements. He is acting calmer. He says he wants to build something new. My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence” and “look how good it is that he hasn’t thrown anything at you, or the thing he did throw (a drawer, a month or so ago) was not at you, what an improvement!”

All of that just makes me feel guilty for wanting to leave. But I am at the place where even if he DOES change, I feel that all of the effort and the long road it will take is asking too much of me. My body feels uncomfortable around him. I can’t let go of the fact that he lied and manipulated. Even if he really is ready to change and build something new, I feel like I DONT want to. And I feel like I should. As though, if I were a good person, I would do the right thing and keep trying in the marriage.

has anyone else been here?? I dread being a single mom and worry that my children will resent me. I am struggling with all the mixed messages.

OP posts:
myplace · 16/01/2025 20:28

Christian here. I can’t emphasise enough that leaving is the right thing to do. You have been abused by your religion, to believe you should stay.

If he successfully changes, all that means is that he could have changed before and chose not to.

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 20:38

My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence"

A decent man wouldn't have to be confronted about his violence; because he wouldn't be violent in the first place.

And even if he started feeling the urge to be violent, he'd go and get help himself there and then ..... Not just when his spouse is finally leaving him and he might have some consequences.

Anyway his violence is strategic;

  • he stopped the shoving when you threatened to report him to the police and he'd face consequences.
  • He's been violent in an indirect way that he's trying to pass off as accidental - he knows if you end up injured, he can't have it be in a way that you can report as him hitting/pushing etc you. It has to be in a way that gives him an angle to portray it as accidental ("oh I threw something and it hit Shuffle accidentally/she got in the way").
You realise he's trying to do what he wants without it being reportable to the police or church (in a way that definitively shows him as an abuser/batterer?).

That level of strategy and calculation doesn't fit with the theory of them having to be "confronted with their violence*. They're trying to hide/get away with their violence, so it's not something they're unaware of and that's outside their control.

Ask yourself this about a violent man; would he do what he does to his physically weaker dependants ...to e.g. another man who's physically equal (or stronger) than him and not his dependant? A man who could hurt him physically and with whom there might be consequences? A policeman, a bouncer/door man/a boss.
The answer is usually NO.
Therefore the violence is very much a choice. It is not something they need "confronted" with; they already choose when and with whom to indulge it.

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 21:00

and another time he threatened suicide

Abuser bingo.

The vast majority of them are alive and well (and often coupled up) years later.

And even if he were to; it would not be your responsibility.

He's done more than enough- on a number of different fronts - to end a marriage. Many times over.

Bitsrestingface · 16/01/2025 21:14

Hiya, I was married to a minister, and prayed for years, out of desperation.
I hated him and disrespected him for treating me roughly.
When I left him, the church rallied around him and gave him more preaching opportunities.
I saved up an escape fund.
Took me years to get over it And realise it was ok and right to leave him. The Christian conditioning was too strong.
I have a friend who also went through the same and was advised by minister to stay with her violent husband.

God cares about you, your welfare and your future and it's ok to not be with him any more.

You can inbox me x

unsync · 16/01/2025 21:20

You are not breaking up your family. He is. The moment he behaved abusively towards you he did that. He's dangerous, and you and your children will be safer and better off far away from him.

You most definitely need to find a new church, preferably one that doesn't find domestic abuse and violence towards women and children acceptable.

As you are in the UK, I would suggest you seek help from Women's Aid to work out the safest way for you to leave.

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 17/01/2025 10:31

MyNewLife2025 · 16/01/2025 18:47

@ShuffleShuffleSpin ive somehow been raised in a similar environment. One where any improvement was seen as THE sign the person was doing their best, things would be better and to be much more forgiving towards others because they were clearly struggling.

This is a lot shit. Sorry for the wording.
But being compassionate and forgiving doesn’t include having no boundaries and always putting others before us, before our NEEDS.
That's what a religion that wants to keep,women in line, accepting any crumbs as if they were gold, does.

Its very hard to learn it’s ok to put yourself first.
Its very hard when you’re made to feel that its suddenly somehow your fault if he is struggling because you want to separate when he is making so much efforts.

But you’ve recognise pd that he is an abuser,
Abusers don’t change so quickly.
And even if he did change, it doesn’t mean you have to take him back. It’s also ok to say that his previous behaviour has destroyed the love and trust you had. So there is no coming back.
Dint let anyone over ride your decision there. They’re not living your life. They’re not you. It’s not in them to decide what is or isn’t ok. Or to make you feel guilty about it,

Thank you. You have nailed it. I grew up in America under very conservative evangelical patriarchal churches and moved to the U.K. as a young adult. I was absolutely brainwashed by patriarchal teachings that twisted theology. The total GUILT I feel at not accepting crumbs and going for total reconciliation is huge. It’s a tremendous hurdle and anything that makes me question my decision is a huge setback. My family (who still live in USA) still think this way. My mom has stayed in her abusive marriage to my dad. My brother is very authoritarian and although he doesn’t seem to have completely crushed his wife he is definitely controlling. My husband is white European (non U.K.) and was also raised in evangelical circles and his mum modelled the SAME thing. Now in her 70s, staying with her abusive husband who is in total control of her with his moods and totally controls the money etc. These women (my mom and my MIL) have very sad lives. I thought they were good for staying in their marriages, but recognising abuse has changed my views. It’s taken me a number of years because I had a huge setback when I stayed home to have my children and my husband gained total control over finances and only gives me an “allowance”, but I have become very career focussed and am determined to be independent. Thank you (all of you in all of your supportive posts) for helping me to keep drowning out this thinking about reconciliation and staying with an abuser and getting hooked on “hopium” and crumbs. Thank you for reminding me that even if he changes, it’s ok to say he already broke the marriage. He did. My response to recognising what has happened has been slow because I have had loads of brainwashing to overcome and my own immaturity in understanding what makes a healthy relationship. But I am determined to leave him. Just seeing his mother and my mother with these horrible men who never changed now staring into their final days and living in tension with these awful men is enough for me to believe that you are right. These men do not change. And if mine does, it’s too slow for me, and too late. I’ve got like 10-15 years of kids still being at home and that is going to fly by. They need to learn that actions have consequences.

OP posts:
ShuffleShuffleSpin · 17/01/2025 10:35

Thank you all for all of it encouragement and recommended resources and even offering to communicate via DM. I very well may be in touch. Thank you to all who understand what I am going thru as a Christian and how theology can become twisted or misused. I really appreciate the affirmation that abuse breaks the marriage. I know my pastors wife might mean well (I keep saying pastor bc I was raised in USA but her husband is technically a vicar - sorry for using the wrong term!). I think she has handled it wrong, though. She told me to talk to her only and no one else - not even the women’s worker - and it’s made me feel trapped and cut off. I don’t want to cause drama in the church. I am going to seek support from some of the other churches in my area and Women’s Aid.

OP posts:
perfectcolourfound · 17/01/2025 11:20

I'm disgusted at your Pastor's wife's opinion. I am a Christian, and I know many Christians including church leaders. And NONE of them would advise someone to stay in an abusive marriage. They would - and have - instead help that person to leave the marriage. They would support them emotionally and practically to get out.

Your husband has broken his marriage vows. Many times over many years.

The right thing for you... the only safe thing for you ... is to get away from him. And it's without a doubt the best thing for your children.

We're taught that God loves us like a parent loves their child but many times more. Can you imagine telling your children to stay with someone who hurts them, lies to them, frightens them, doesn't respect or show them love??

I left a dysfunctional marriage. It was the right thing to do. My children thrived.

Bodybutterblusher · 17/01/2025 11:25

I'm appalled by your pastor's wife. Ignore her.

I have been where you are. Just leave. Now. While you can.

Bodybutterblusher · 17/01/2025 11:26

Your vicar's wife sounds like a dangerous narcissist. I suggest you do not share with her again.

Bodybutterblusher · 17/01/2025 11:29

Listen to the song Labour by Paris Paloma and think of your children if you feel misplaced guilt. Your responsibility is only to them which included protecting yourself.

BellissimoGecko · 17/01/2025 12:27

StormingNorman · 16/01/2025 14:28

Your husband and the pastor’s wife can fuck off. You and your children deserve better. Carry on with your plan to leave. Wishing you luck x

This!

God, OP, find your anger. Why are you worrying about being a good person? Your h is not a good person. He's a very bad person.

Leave him.

You deserve much better.

jannier · 17/01/2025 12:29

As you live in the UK the advice you were given is rubbish you don't need to be hit to leave all he does is abuse.
Your church sounds very unhelpful I'd definitely find another one where you will get more support.....maybe a different denomination that respects women.
Why is it okay for your husband to break the vows he made to honour and respect you?

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 17/01/2025 12:50

Praying for you OP, your update sounds encouraging. You can get free and start to truly enjoy life with your children x

Stillanothernamechange · 17/01/2025 13:16

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 17/01/2025 10:35

Thank you all for all of it encouragement and recommended resources and even offering to communicate via DM. I very well may be in touch. Thank you to all who understand what I am going thru as a Christian and how theology can become twisted or misused. I really appreciate the affirmation that abuse breaks the marriage. I know my pastors wife might mean well (I keep saying pastor bc I was raised in USA but her husband is technically a vicar - sorry for using the wrong term!). I think she has handled it wrong, though. She told me to talk to her only and no one else - not even the women’s worker - and it’s made me feel trapped and cut off. I don’t want to cause drama in the church. I am going to seek support from some of the other churches in my area and Women’s Aid.

OP, sorry to comment without reading the whole thread but I too am a Christian raised in a very conservative environment and this: "She told me to talk to her only and no one else - not even the women’s worker" raises massive, massive safeguarding red flags for me. It is a completely inappropriate thing to have told you and I cannot imagine my own vicar's-wife mother (or my dad) EVER telling someone in your position not to talk to other people.

Sadly, I have also witnessed 'spiritual abuse' in UK very conservative evangelical circles - a prolific abuser that I know of is currently being prosecuted, after affecting dozens of victims over many decades. So I have learned to be cautious about this sort of thing.

FWIW, my approach to marriage vows is that you promised to 'love' your husband. You did not promise to allow him to abuse you and in fact, allowing a person to be abusive is not an act of love. My religious opinion is that showing true love to an abusive spouse involves preventing them from abusing you.

Toddlerteaplease · 17/01/2025 13:31

StormingNorman · 16/01/2025 14:28

Your husband and the pastor’s wife can fuck off. You and your children deserve better. Carry on with your plan to leave. Wishing you luck x

Nailed it!

triballeader · 17/01/2025 14:14

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 17/01/2025 10:35

Thank you all for all of it encouragement and recommended resources and even offering to communicate via DM. I very well may be in touch. Thank you to all who understand what I am going thru as a Christian and how theology can become twisted or misused. I really appreciate the affirmation that abuse breaks the marriage. I know my pastors wife might mean well (I keep saying pastor bc I was raised in USA but her husband is technically a vicar - sorry for using the wrong term!). I think she has handled it wrong, though. She told me to talk to her only and no one else - not even the women’s worker - and it’s made me feel trapped and cut off. I don’t want to cause drama in the church. I am going to seek support from some of the other churches in my area and Women’s Aid.

In real life I am the wife of a priest aka vicar.

The vicars wife you have been dealing with is dangerous. She is NOT following the strict CofE quidence on safequarding. I am appalled at her so called advice.
She should be signposting verbally to UK groups such as woman’s aid and similar. At the very least she should have said she does not know and would contact the diocesan safeguarding officer and ask what support is out there for you.

She should be contacting the dioceses safeguarding officer for further info specially as you have children under 18. Confidentiality matters but you have disclosed that a member of the congregation with children under 18 is abusing his wife. Treats of suicide and emotional abuse of children is evident in your posts. I hope you find the strength and support and that you do manage to get away.

I cannot see how any of her actions, dismissing you and stating it’s fine to stay with an abusive man, fit with any of the ongoing leadership safeguard training

Please consider contacting your dioceses safeguarding officer.

Firstly so you can access sane and safe signposting for you, especially if you needed access to a safer church if that is important to you, and secondly because they need to know if rubbish and dangerous advice is being handed out by someone in leadership.

Safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility and more so for anyone who is a designated safeguarding contact for concerns around domestic violence. Controlling and manipulative behaviours are included.

I am so sorry you have meet such poor pastoral care and lack of support. You really do deserve so much better.

triballeader · 17/01/2025 14:19

Central CofE current guidance on responding well to domestic violence. Sharing so you have access. This adapted by each diocese that employs a safeguarding officer who is available to those in church leadership who are named safeguard contacts. Please see section 3 as this concerns any disclosures of Domestic violence
www.churchofengland.org/safeguarding/safeguarding-e-manual/safeguarding-children-young-people-and-vulnerable-adults/3

canyouletthedogoutplease · 17/01/2025 15:32

No the Pastor's wife shouldn't be telling you what you're experiencing is not abuse, but if we take a step back from this and appreciate that she is a human woman, not imbued with any special powers, and she's got her own set of circumstances and marriage to navigate... which may indeed be one which involves behaviour the she can't admit is abuse. You may have held up a mirror.

She might be reluctant to acknowledge what is going on for you is unacceptable because she is trying to protect the church and her husband from scrutiny at the cost of it's followers and it certainly wouldn't be the first time that has happened. I'm not shocked at all, but I do really urge you to continue to examine what your beliefs are and unpick what actually makes sense to you in the cold light of day, and for you and your lived experience, and what's brainwashing.

You can move forward, I wish you a clear head and the strength you need, and that's within you, it doesn't come from any external force.

Wisenotboring · 17/01/2025 15:37

I would leave home and consider leaving your church. Getting sway from an abusive man is the correct thing to do as a Christian fir yourself, your children (and actually your husband). Forgiveness and fresh starts are all valid considerations in a Christian marriage but it sounds like you've tried all that and now need to find a place of physical, emotional snd spiritual safety. Best of luck to you.

AdoraBell · 17/01/2025 15:39

Abusive people only change when they want to. They pretend to change in order to manipulate the person they control- in their eyes own.

As a pp said, the pastors wife can do one. Get some legal advice and get away from this way of life. You and your children deserve better.

Donttellempike · 17/01/2025 15:39

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:39

I can’t help but wonder this same thing. I hope he does change, of course, but I don’t want to stay with him. I hate the idea of breaking up our family. Some of the books I’ve read have helped to remind me that it’s his violence that broke the marriage and family, and that my divorcing him won’t be what actually makes it broken. I keep reminding myself of that. But I struggle with doubt when he seems like he is making improvements or acting humble and I worry about feeling shame and condemnation from some people (definitely not all) at church. I will most likely have to go to a different church.

He will not change. Leave him

CoralHare · 17/01/2025 15:43

@ShuffleShuffleSpin reading the comments your pastor made makes me feel so glad all C of E clergy are required to do domestic abuse training.

Please can I point you to https://www.restored-uk.org/about/ which is particularly aimed at supporting women and training churches in supporting women who have experienced domestic abuse.

About us - Restored

Since 2010, we’ve been speaking up about violence against women and equipping churches across the UK and beyond to respond to domestic abuse. Our Survivors’ Network supports over 600 female Christian survivors of domestic abuse, and our Survivor’s Hand...

https://www.restored-uk.org/about

DoodlesMam · 17/01/2025 15:47

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:25

It’s taken me years to admit to myself that I have not been in a good marriage at all. I came from a sheltered, Christian, conservative background and believed no sex before marriage was the most important thing, and I was not allowed to date until I finally left home in my 20s. I share all of this because it has taken me years to grow in understanding of what makes a healthy relationship and what compatibility even means.

I married my husband, and he shoved me once early in the marriage. I didn’t know much about DV back then, but I knew this was bad. I told him I would call police if he ever did that again. He then seemed to never do it again, so I thought it was in the past. He criticised me constantly after we were married. He also met up with another woman regularly and took her on outings after we were married. She acted like she was attracted to him, but he insists that it was not sexual on his side and that they never kissed or had sex. He also betrayed me constantly for many years by putting the demands of his mother and sister ahead of our marriage during times when a marriage or wife would have normally been prioritised. He let them plan his birthday (for example) and told me to follow their lead for multiple years even when I told him I was hurt and didn’t feel this was normal in a marriage. He put his single, childless sister first on Mother’s Day (doing what she wanted on the day) even though I had just given birth to our second child and clearly shared that I did not want to do the thing his sister wanted to do. He lied, manipulate, trampled, ignored.

I forgave, forgave, forgave because I thought that was the role of a Christian wife. I kept trying and kept praying.

finally, he had some scary acts of violence, including throwing a sharp object at me (when neither of us was even upset?!?!?) and other confusing acts such as throwing things at me front behind, and when I confronted him, he would say it was an accident until finally I knew it could not be an accident.

we have children and I have also been worried about the way he has treated them.

I finally called the DV hotline, then my GP, then social services and police. Apparently his level of risk is not high enough for me to be required to leave for protection of my children. But I want to anyway. I am still living at home with him and trying to save up to leave.

finally, when I tried to leave, he began to attend counselling for myself. I have seen some improvements. He is acting calmer. He says he wants to build something new. My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence” and “look how good it is that he hasn’t thrown anything at you, or the thing he did throw (a drawer, a month or so ago) was not at you, what an improvement!”

All of that just makes me feel guilty for wanting to leave. But I am at the place where even if he DOES change, I feel that all of the effort and the long road it will take is asking too much of me. My body feels uncomfortable around him. I can’t let go of the fact that he lied and manipulated. Even if he really is ready to change and build something new, I feel like I DONT want to. And I feel like I should. As though, if I were a good person, I would do the right thing and keep trying in the marriage.

has anyone else been here?? I dread being a single mom and worry that my children will resent me. I am struggling with all the mixed messages.

he's not going to change, he's just worried about shame and paying out. Get out before you or the kids are seriously hurt.

Men (people) like this don't change, and also, you deserve to be loved and cared for not walking on eggshells.

Winterskyfall · 17/01/2025 16:15

Don't feel guilty. He destroyed your marriage vows not you. There is no foundation of trust on which to build. I'm not religious but the bible verse below came to mind, you can't build your house on unstable sand, it won't last, the same as a marriage. Your husband destabilised the foundation, not you, that's on him. Wishing you well in the future.

25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like aa foolish man who built his house on the sand.