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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband says he wants to “build something new together” after he was violent

114 replies

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:25

It’s taken me years to admit to myself that I have not been in a good marriage at all. I came from a sheltered, Christian, conservative background and believed no sex before marriage was the most important thing, and I was not allowed to date until I finally left home in my 20s. I share all of this because it has taken me years to grow in understanding of what makes a healthy relationship and what compatibility even means.

I married my husband, and he shoved me once early in the marriage. I didn’t know much about DV back then, but I knew this was bad. I told him I would call police if he ever did that again. He then seemed to never do it again, so I thought it was in the past. He criticised me constantly after we were married. He also met up with another woman regularly and took her on outings after we were married. She acted like she was attracted to him, but he insists that it was not sexual on his side and that they never kissed or had sex. He also betrayed me constantly for many years by putting the demands of his mother and sister ahead of our marriage during times when a marriage or wife would have normally been prioritised. He let them plan his birthday (for example) and told me to follow their lead for multiple years even when I told him I was hurt and didn’t feel this was normal in a marriage. He put his single, childless sister first on Mother’s Day (doing what she wanted on the day) even though I had just given birth to our second child and clearly shared that I did not want to do the thing his sister wanted to do. He lied, manipulate, trampled, ignored.

I forgave, forgave, forgave because I thought that was the role of a Christian wife. I kept trying and kept praying.

finally, he had some scary acts of violence, including throwing a sharp object at me (when neither of us was even upset?!?!?) and other confusing acts such as throwing things at me front behind, and when I confronted him, he would say it was an accident until finally I knew it could not be an accident.

we have children and I have also been worried about the way he has treated them.

I finally called the DV hotline, then my GP, then social services and police. Apparently his level of risk is not high enough for me to be required to leave for protection of my children. But I want to anyway. I am still living at home with him and trying to save up to leave.

finally, when I tried to leave, he began to attend counselling for myself. I have seen some improvements. He is acting calmer. He says he wants to build something new. My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence” and “look how good it is that he hasn’t thrown anything at you, or the thing he did throw (a drawer, a month or so ago) was not at you, what an improvement!”

All of that just makes me feel guilty for wanting to leave. But I am at the place where even if he DOES change, I feel that all of the effort and the long road it will take is asking too much of me. My body feels uncomfortable around him. I can’t let go of the fact that he lied and manipulated. Even if he really is ready to change and build something new, I feel like I DONT want to. And I feel like I should. As though, if I were a good person, I would do the right thing and keep trying in the marriage.

has anyone else been here?? I dread being a single mom and worry that my children will resent me. I am struggling with all the mixed messages.

OP posts:
DPotter · 16/01/2025 15:10

Has your pastor's wife been a training course for counselling partners who have suffered domestic abuse ? No thought not.

Such advice from people in powerful position is so harmful. I wonder sometimes if there should be some legal requirement for religious advisers / priest / pastors / vicars to receive and be qualified to offer counselling to those experiencing DV(and their wives too). They may be good, well intentioned people but their advice can cause such damage to spouses and children alike. They hold so much authority and can destroy social networks of those needing support.

Hold to your objective - leave, get that post grad qualification and you and your children will fly !

SilvieBear · 16/01/2025 15:13

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:39

I can’t help but wonder this same thing. I hope he does change, of course, but I don’t want to stay with him. I hate the idea of breaking up our family. Some of the books I’ve read have helped to remind me that it’s his violence that broke the marriage and family, and that my divorcing him won’t be what actually makes it broken. I keep reminding myself of that. But I struggle with doubt when he seems like he is making improvements or acting humble and I worry about feeling shame and condemnation from some people (definitely not all) at church. I will most likely have to go to a different church.

As other posters have said, you are not breaking up the family. He is, through his actions.
I also agree with PPs that another (more supportive, understanding and less judgy) church sounds like an excellent idea.

BigDahliaFan · 16/01/2025 15:16

Think about the vested interests here. The Church has a vested interest in showing that the marriages in it's congregation are stable (doesn't matter if they are safe or not) and your husband doesn't want to lose his place in that congregation or the community - which he might if you divorce.

Your vested interest is in you, if you aren't safe you can't look after your kids.

Edited to add - carry on with your plans to leave.

StrawberryWater · 16/01/2025 15:16

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:45

This is exactly what I need to hear and re-read.

I have a part time job and am trying to finish a postgraduate degree which will help me earn more but it’s been a huge juggle and has probably in all honesty slowed down my leaving process as well.

no matter how I do it, I think I will feel terrible guilt over leaving him. He sobbed on the phone when I tried last time, and another time he threatened suicide. When the kids misbehave or tell him they hate him, he will say “tell (our son) to kill me while I am asleep”. I find all of that really disturbing and I worry that his mental health isn’t completely stable. I can see that I am part of the problem because I am worried about him, and I need to just worry about myself and next steps.

I do live in the U.K.

Having been through a relationship where a man threatened to kill himself when I told him I wanted to leave I (as well as being friends with people that went through similar things with their partners) I can tell you with 100% certainty that they will never so much as lift a finger to self harm.

Next time he threatens / guilts you by saying he'll kill himself call his bluff and ring and ambulance and the police. They will see through his bullshit and tell him off for wasting people's time, wasting resources and emotionally manipulating you. It will shame and embarrass your husband to never try it again. I've seen it happen numerous times!

LifeExperience · 16/01/2025 15:16

Devout Christian here. You did not break your vows, he did, and he continues to do so, including a month ago when he threw something at you. There is nothing in Christian theology whatsoever that requires a wife to be abused in any way--physically, emotionally, mentally. Your pastor's wife gave you terrible advice so ignore her. She should be ashamed of herself (He didn't throw the item directly at you so that's good?! Excuse me?!)

Keeping a marriage together is not the highest Christian duty. Treating others with respect and love is, and your dh has failed woefully in that. Now he's attending counseling, but also threatening suicide, which is just another form of manipulation and abuse. He has not changed. Abusers escalate, and if you stay you are in ever increasing danger. Please save yourself. You are under no obligation to stay in a marriage where you are not safe, and you have a duty to yourself, as you are also a beloved child of God, no less than your husband, to make yourself safe.

If that means you must leave your church, so be it. But before I left my church I would tell everyone there exactly what he has done, sparing no details. You might discover more people in the church will be on your side than you think. Nobody likes a wife abuser.

StrawberryWater · 16/01/2025 15:18

Also op please leave. If not for you then your children.

Hotflushesandchilblains · 16/01/2025 15:19

You are being poorly advised by people with a religious agenda.

He says he wants to build something new.

Counselling, especially joint, often just gives abusers more ideas of how to control and abuse you. Be very careful.

My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence”

She's full of shit.

IButtleSir · 16/01/2025 15:19

Run as far and as fast as you can: if not for yourself, then for your children. And please find another church, if you still feel the need to attend church.

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 16/01/2025 15:20

I am a Christian woman. Run a mile and don't look back. Your faith does NOT require you to stay with an abusive man and put yourself and your children in danger.
Agree with pp the pastors wife can F Off!!!
Speak to a proper DV advisor and good luck x

cornflakegirl · 16/01/2025 15:21

Totally agree that your husband broke your vows.

restored-uk.org offer peer support and might be able to put you in touch with a local church that understands and supports survivors of domestic abuse.

zeibesaffron · 16/01/2025 15:22

Please leave as soon as you can.

Sometimes things can get worse when you try to leave - so you need to go, don’t look back and do not tell him where you are. Get legal advice about separating/ money and contact for your children.

Any more violence call the police straight away.

Get support from professionals (DV charities etc) not your pastors wife (she is an idiot! who has no idea what she is saying). Your H is only going for counselling so he looks good!!

But please leave - safeguard you and your DC’s. He will not change!

Hotflushesandchilblains · 16/01/2025 15:24

Now my blood is boiling after I read your posts. His statements have completed eradicated any chance he is not lying to you.

He sobbed on the phone when I tried last time, and another time he threatened suicide. When the kids misbehave or tell him they hate him, he will say “tell (our son) to kill me while I am asleep”. I find all of that really disturbing and I worry that his mental health isn’t completely stable.

He is perfectly stable, and showing how manipulative he is prepared to be. You cannot trust anything he says. His life is not your responsibility. And if he belongs to a church, let them support him. Too many churches are based on misogynist, patriarchal ideology and disguise the abuse of women and children taking place under their roof. Even when they are clear about what abuse is - too many pastors and religious leaders have shown how lacking they are when it comes to safeguarding to take them seriously.

Nothatgingerpirate · 16/01/2025 15:28

StormingNorman · 16/01/2025 14:28

Your husband and the pastor’s wife can fuck off. You and your children deserve better. Carry on with your plan to leave. Wishing you luck x

This time brilliant comment, Norman 👍

justmadabouttheboy · 16/01/2025 15:29

Same as @StrawberryWater , when I told my abusive XH I wanted a separation, he threatened to kill himself, even started to act it out in front of me, and when I ignored him he came sheepishly back and then got angry that I hadn't run after him and begged him to stop.

It's all manipulative bullshit...along with all the crying and handwringing and promises to change; they just realise that they've gone too far and will try anything to persuade you that they'll be different.

Take no notice lovely, keep walking and take yourself and your beautiful DC as far away from him as possible.

murasaki · 16/01/2025 15:30

If what you are needing is validation from Christian women that it is ok to leave, you have it from many in this thread. It in no way detracts from your faith to keep yourself safe.

WhatTheKey · 16/01/2025 15:31

You have had good advice here but I just want to add that your husband and your pastor's wife and behaving in a very unChristian way here. If you have any guilt about leaving because of the whole religion thing... I think that you'll know if you look deep enough inside yourself that God loves you far more than to live this life.

mathanxiety · 16/01/2025 15:33

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:39

I can’t help but wonder this same thing. I hope he does change, of course, but I don’t want to stay with him. I hate the idea of breaking up our family. Some of the books I’ve read have helped to remind me that it’s his violence that broke the marriage and family, and that my divorcing him won’t be what actually makes it broken. I keep reminding myself of that. But I struggle with doubt when he seems like he is making improvements or acting humble and I worry about feeling shame and condemnation from some people (definitely not all) at church. I will most likely have to go to a different church.

I've been there.

My exH suddenly started 'making improvements' when he realised the change that would occur in his life if I made the decision to call a screeching halt to the madness.

It was when he showed how he really could manage his temper, really could spend a whole day without rolling his eyes at me or carping about something I had/ hadn't done that I realised he had been completely in control of himself all along and had deliberately chosen to abuse me.

You are right to say that he is the one who has broken the marriage. It's not fair that you are the one who has to make the formal decision. But he has made decisions all these years that have been nails in the coffin of the relationship.

'Building something new' is appalling bullshit that shows he has no idea that the foundation of a relationship - the basic element without which nothing else can grow - is that each party feels physically and emotionally safe. For him to turn around and expect you to trust yourself to him physically and emotionally after what he has put you through is yet another example of his abuse. It shows he has no intention of being accountable for the abuse - what he wants is for you to keep on forgiving and hopefully forgetting so he can feel he's off the hook.

Staying in this relationship will destroy you. It's not what you were put on earth for. No loving God wants to see women ducking missiles thrown by their husbands or hit from behind.

The pastor's wife has it wrong. Find another confidant outside of your church community

It will feel scary for you to take the steps you need to take, and this is normal. There is help out there all the same.
Call Women's Aid - 0808 2000 247.
Leave a message with your name and number and a good time for them to call you back.

Does your H have access to your call records? If yes, maybe look into a new sim or get a burner.

If I were you, I'd make sure I logged out of MN after each session and changed your password daily.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 16/01/2025 15:39

I hope you get out OP.

It's awful reading how he has treated you but I actually feel even more sick at the excuses made by the pastors wife. It shouldn't surprise me but it's horrifying to think that some people of faith think this is ok and you should accept it

Flowers
allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 16/01/2025 15:43

@ShuffleShuffleSpin I would not be forgiving any of his dreadful behaviour and I cannot believe any minister (this is what they are usually called in UK) wife would be telling you that he is changing. leopards cannot change their spots and even a ministers wife does not think this! take your children and just leave. do not tell him. just go!! it is a case of too little, far too late for you.

mathanxiety · 16/01/2025 15:44

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:45

This is exactly what I need to hear and re-read.

I have a part time job and am trying to finish a postgraduate degree which will help me earn more but it’s been a huge juggle and has probably in all honesty slowed down my leaving process as well.

no matter how I do it, I think I will feel terrible guilt over leaving him. He sobbed on the phone when I tried last time, and another time he threatened suicide. When the kids misbehave or tell him they hate him, he will say “tell (our son) to kill me while I am asleep”. I find all of that really disturbing and I worry that his mental health isn’t completely stable. I can see that I am part of the problem because I am worried about him, and I need to just worry about myself and next steps.

I do live in the U.K.

Threatening suicide and sobbing is part of a well-worn script men like your H use to try to maintain the status quo. If someone threatens suicide, call 999 and let the police or ambulance services call his bluff for him.

It's a heinous form of manipulation. Please understand that you are not responsible for this response of his. Even if he were to make an attempt on his life, you would not be responsible. (My exH did this to me, so I understand the guilt and the "what if he...?" but you are not responsible).

Involving the child in this psychological abuse is sinister all the same. You are right to be really disturbed by this element. You are dealing with a malignant narcissist.

Can you contact your tutor or supervisor at your university and ask for a leave of absence for a while? Tell them why (and you should also reach out to the pastoral care staff at the university).
You are trying to keep too many plates spinning at once - the revelation about his verbal references to violence means you and the children need to leave as a matter of urgency.

canyouletthedogoutplease · 16/01/2025 15:44

My body feels uncomfortable around him

This is because people are asking you to doubt your reality. Don't do it. You know what's going on. Block your ears to anyone with an agenda, including him, and the people at your church and seek different counsel and support.

I can't think of much more UN Christian than throwing sharp and heavy objects at your wife and then threatening suicide when she tells you she's not willing to put up with it.

If you never see the Pastor's Wife again it will be a day too soon. I would advise that you actively seek another path than the church you're currently with, who won't try to tell you that what you know to be true is a lie. Do not let them make you doubt your reality.

Get some professional advice from Womens' Aid, they will believe you, they won't diminish what's happening and they will help you take the steps to do what you need to do.

Far from breaking the marriage, and upsetting the children, you can show them what is not permissable and what you will not accept, you can show them strength, and self posession and grace under fire. And you can set up a safe loving home where there is peace. And what could be more Christian than that?

sleetysnowflakes · 16/01/2025 15:46

everythingthelighttouches · 16/01/2025 14:45

I will most likely have to go to a different church.

I think you absolutely should go to a different church, as you need to sever ties with the pastor and his wife.

I’m so sorry because this makes everything many times more difficult, but they do not have your best interests at heart at all.

I am a Christian and wholeheartedly agree with this.

Burntt · 16/01/2025 15:49

Op find a new church. I was pressured to stay in an abusive marriage by the pastor and his wife. It made my ex gaslighting seem so reasonable. They also had a very traditional/archaic view of woman's role so when my ex got violent at me when I asked he not lave mess everywhere or could he please watch the kids while he's home as I was very sick that weekend etc I was gaslight into accepting if provoked him because it was unreasonable to expect a man to do ANY housework or childcare.

Find a new church. Maybe you will have to try a few. I was hesitant to try a new church for a long while as I was shamed for leaving by my old church and I was hiding from my ex anyway so had to stop attending to protect the kids. Found a new church I love with lots of mums my age. I'm the only single parent but they are all appalled I was pressured to stay and fully agree leaving was the right thing. He's broken his vows to you. It wasn't just you who vowed to obey he vowed to honour you. Jesus loved the children he would want your children safe and protected and want them raised in Christian values not sexist violence.

AcrossthePond55 · 16/01/2025 15:50

@ShuffleShuffleSpin

First off, anyone can end any relationship for any reason, or for no reason at all. And the reasons (or lack thereof) are no one's business but yours.

When the Bible speaks of marriage as 'forever', it's considering that that marriage is loving and respectful. Yours isn't. I don't think Christ called on women to put up with abuse, do you? And your H certainly hasn't been a 'Biblical' husband. Remember "Husbands love your wives as Christ loves his Church" and "A man shall leave his home and cleave to his wife". So if there are any 'covenants' that have been broken, he's the one who smashed them. To me, that frees you from any vows you have made.

He's not going to change, they never do. And if you take him back you'll forever be waiting for the other shoe to drop. You'll be walking on eggshells not to 'upset him'. And on the surface, it will appear to you that things are 'better' but that will only be because you are not being your true authentic self. You will be stifling your opinions and moderating your behavior to keep things calm. And when you do that, he will have 'won'. Life will be exactly has he wants it, but you will be miserable and sad. And if he goes into a rage, in his mind it will be because you have 'misbehaved'. Is that the way you want to live for then next 20/30/40 years?

If you want to try to 'extricate' yourself more subtly, see if you can get him to leave under the pretext that he can only prove to you that he's changed if he moves out and works his way back and/or that you won't be able to heal with him there. May work, may not. But if you can manage to separate that will give you breathing room to get your ducks in a row and make the separation permanent. If not or you don't want to chance it, then just make your plans quietly and when you are ready, execute them swiftly.

And any church that ostracizes someone for separating (unless that person is a cheater) isn't a church I'd belong to anyway. You'll find your new 'church home', one that accepts and embraces you.

2JFDIYOLO · 16/01/2025 16:00

I was sure this was in America!!

But absolutely go to a different church. This is one of my objections to organised religions; how they and the people who run them control people.

And yes, threatening suicide is a VERY well known ploy of the coercive controlling abuser. It's classic manipulation tactics. You are NOT responsible for his behaviour. He is.

And if he ever announces he's made or is about to make an attempt, call the police. Do NOT go to him. ( That is what this particular move is intended to provoke.)