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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband says he wants to “build something new together” after he was violent

114 replies

ShuffleShuffleSpin · 16/01/2025 14:25

It’s taken me years to admit to myself that I have not been in a good marriage at all. I came from a sheltered, Christian, conservative background and believed no sex before marriage was the most important thing, and I was not allowed to date until I finally left home in my 20s. I share all of this because it has taken me years to grow in understanding of what makes a healthy relationship and what compatibility even means.

I married my husband, and he shoved me once early in the marriage. I didn’t know much about DV back then, but I knew this was bad. I told him I would call police if he ever did that again. He then seemed to never do it again, so I thought it was in the past. He criticised me constantly after we were married. He also met up with another woman regularly and took her on outings after we were married. She acted like she was attracted to him, but he insists that it was not sexual on his side and that they never kissed or had sex. He also betrayed me constantly for many years by putting the demands of his mother and sister ahead of our marriage during times when a marriage or wife would have normally been prioritised. He let them plan his birthday (for example) and told me to follow their lead for multiple years even when I told him I was hurt and didn’t feel this was normal in a marriage. He put his single, childless sister first on Mother’s Day (doing what she wanted on the day) even though I had just given birth to our second child and clearly shared that I did not want to do the thing his sister wanted to do. He lied, manipulate, trampled, ignored.

I forgave, forgave, forgave because I thought that was the role of a Christian wife. I kept trying and kept praying.

finally, he had some scary acts of violence, including throwing a sharp object at me (when neither of us was even upset?!?!?) and other confusing acts such as throwing things at me front behind, and when I confronted him, he would say it was an accident until finally I knew it could not be an accident.

we have children and I have also been worried about the way he has treated them.

I finally called the DV hotline, then my GP, then social services and police. Apparently his level of risk is not high enough for me to be required to leave for protection of my children. But I want to anyway. I am still living at home with him and trying to save up to leave.

finally, when I tried to leave, he began to attend counselling for myself. I have seen some improvements. He is acting calmer. He says he wants to build something new. My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence” and “look how good it is that he hasn’t thrown anything at you, or the thing he did throw (a drawer, a month or so ago) was not at you, what an improvement!”

All of that just makes me feel guilty for wanting to leave. But I am at the place where even if he DOES change, I feel that all of the effort and the long road it will take is asking too much of me. My body feels uncomfortable around him. I can’t let go of the fact that he lied and manipulated. Even if he really is ready to change and build something new, I feel like I DONT want to. And I feel like I should. As though, if I were a good person, I would do the right thing and keep trying in the marriage.

has anyone else been here?? I dread being a single mom and worry that my children will resent me. I am struggling with all the mixed messages.

OP posts:
PaperDreamsHoney · 16/01/2025 16:06

OP, I was you 5 years ago. Right down to the good Christian wife part. I hesitated about leaving my ex too, but ultimately it was the right call, as I found out when I left and he got really nasty. Unfortunately you need to be ready for this. Once they start to realise they're losing control of you, they double down, and the church will support him. I left, he tried to bully and intimidate me into getting back together, he tried to manipulate the children, I got shunned by my church... and you know what? I survived. It was worth it. I'm free of him now. And it will be worth it for you too.

Please DM me if I can help in any way. If I'm geographically close enough I'll come in person if you need the support. Use all the support services, keep records of everything, enlist non-Christian friends if you have them. Please don't rely on your church - their priority is not your safety, it's to preserve the marriage at all costs. "Marriage isn't meant to make us happy, it's meant to make us holy" and all that.

NeedsMustNet · 16/01/2025 16:06

your pastor’s wife doesn’t have a hotline to God. Nor does she care about your fate, if this is her advice.

your children will grow up understanding the messages you and your husband give off to them. If they see or hear him hurting you in any way, they will absorb that just as much as what you / they hear in church on a Sunday. And they will be happy if you are.

your husband didn’t feel guilty or shame when he did all of those things to you. What gives him the right to make you feel guilty for doing what you are doing now?

LurkyMcLurkinson · 16/01/2025 16:07

Counselling alone is incredibly unlikely to change this man. If he is truly wanting to change he can sign up to a perpetrators of domestic abuse programme he will have to attend regularly where he will be forced to take accountability. Even with this the chances of him changing are relatively slim.
More importantly than all of the above though is that even if he did change you don’t have to stay. The damage is done. You have lived in fear too long and it’s unlikely you’ll ever feel safe with him. You deserve to live a life where you are not walking on egg shells, trying to avoid conflict and placate a man child.
There may be difficulties if you leave, such as suicide threats (this is text book abuse) and his best attempts to persuade you he’s a changed man (this is the honeymoon section of the cycle of abuse which you’ll find more about on google). Those difficulties will never require more strength than you’ve already demonstrated in navigating your relationship with this man though, and the rewards, namely feelings of freedom, peace and safety will be so worth it.
Finally please please please do not listen to your pastors wife. It’s incredibly dangerous to minimise the actions of a man like this and as such I can only assume she has never had any safeguarding training.

shellyleppard · 16/01/2025 16:09

Leopards don't change their spots...... likewise your husband will not change. Yes he's all sweetness and light now because you want to leave. I guarantee if you stay he will soon be back to his old habits. Btw the pastor wife needs to get in the real world for a bit

Mischance · 16/01/2025 16:19

Well - the Christian church has not served you well so far has it? It has set up an expectation in your mind of what a Christian marriage should be and this has condemned you to years of living with a controlling man and years of your children witnessing and living an unhealthy adult relationship.

Finding another church is not going to help. Getting the hell out of there is. And to hell with what the rest of the church community think - you deserve some happiness and they do not have the right to stand in your way.

crumpet · 16/01/2025 16:25

Forgiving him does not mean you have to stay with him. If you choose to forgive him, you are free to do so. And regardless of whether you chose to forgive or not, you are free to to decide to no longer stay married to him.

Flyhigher · 16/01/2025 16:31

Run.

merryhouse · 16/01/2025 16:35

I'd just like to add that if/when you look for another church, it might be a good idea to look for one which has a Policy on Domestic Violence.

Our Policy on Responding to Domestic Abuse (I'm the secretary, I have it on my laptop) begins

All forms of domestic abuse are wrong and must stop. We are committed to promoting and supporting environments which:

  • ensure that all people feel welcomed, respected and safe from abuse
  • protect those vulnerable to domestic abuse from actual or potential harm
  • recognise equality amongst people and within relationships
  • enable and encourage concerns to be raised and responded to appropriately and consistently

and goes on to develop these ideas, name our safeguarding reps and talk about wider support. We're a CofE church and I think some form of policy like this is mandatory as part of our safeguarding (yes, I realise as a whole we don't have a great safeguarding record).

Topseyt123 · 16/01/2025 16:36

Hotflushesandchilblains · 16/01/2025 15:19

You are being poorly advised by people with a religious agenda.

He says he wants to build something new.

Counselling, especially joint, often just gives abusers more ideas of how to control and abuse you. Be very careful.

My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence”

She's full of shit.

This is what I was coming on here to say. It's correct on both fronts.

Do not rely on your pastor's wife for relationship counselling. You need a professional counsellor, and I highly doubt that that is what she is because she is spouting such utter bullshit. Dangerous bullshit too. How can she possibly suggest that he has changed and improved so much because he threw a drawer at you a month ago but not since??!! 😲😠 Surely she absolutely cannot be serious there?

What if she advised you to stay because he hadn't thrown anything for a month and then he did it again, possibly injuring you or your children, or even worse. Sorry, but I think she sounds naïve and delusional at best.

Follow through with your plan to leave. Either totally ignore his suicide threats or just call the police to welfare check him. That will soon put paid to that as it is not something he actually intends to do, he is using it as a tool to manipulate and control you.

Contact Women's Aid for advice about leaving. It will be way better and more grounded in reality than that of the pastor's wife.

Daisies23 · 16/01/2025 16:37

I'm so sorry to hear your situation and that you're church is not being supportive. I'm a Christian and I work in domestic abuse and my biggest frustration is how poorly churches understand and manage abuse. I'd really recommend contacting restored, they're a christmas domestic abuse charity and will offer advice and you'll find other Christians who've left similar marriages. Some other quick resources off the top of my head would be the books the emotionally destructive marriage and out of control by Natalie Collins. Also,shelia Wray Gregoire does an excellent podcast called bare marriage and her book the great sex resuce is also very good. I think shelia's work would be very very helpful coming from the background you describe. All of these are written from a Christian perspective.

It's highly unlikely your husband will change, I do believe God changes people but you also have to be willing to change and it's very very rare that an abuser is actually willing to change. You can leave, it is completely biblical to leave an abusive situation. God love and cares about you more than he cares about your marriage. If you want to private message me I'm more than happy to share other resources or chat things through.

KnitFastDieWarm · 16/01/2025 16:58

I‘m not religious, but my closest friend is a Christian. She says ‘Your husband isn’t fulfilling his duty, in a traditional Christian marriage in which he is the spiritual head of the household, to love, honour and protect you. He’s abusing his power to hurt you; that’s not Godly behaviour - and what sort of example is he setting for the children? He’s violent, manipulative, cruel, and a bad father. Forgiving him on a spiritual level doesn’t mean allowing him to continue to mistreat you. Your pastor’s wife is wrong and you need to leave him, and also find a new church.’

TunipTheVegimal24 · 16/01/2025 17:21

I get you not wanting you to stay. Honestly, I don't think people do change that much. Maybe in some cases, if they have an addiction, that they manage to kick. But it sounds like he just enjoys scaring you, and / or thinks it's funny that you just accept it, and seeing how much he can get away with. Not a nice personality trait. You deserve gentleness and peace in your life.

My SIL is very religious, and used to go to a church with quite unkind and judgemental people (she is absolutely lovely, and would never do anything considered sinful either). Don't know from your post, whether this is also the case for you, as you seem quite worried about the opinions of people there. Anyway, she found a much nicer church quite easily and has never looked back x

GreenCandleWax · 16/01/2025 18:18

merryhouse · 16/01/2025 16:35

I'd just like to add that if/when you look for another church, it might be a good idea to look for one which has a Policy on Domestic Violence.

Our Policy on Responding to Domestic Abuse (I'm the secretary, I have it on my laptop) begins

All forms of domestic abuse are wrong and must stop. We are committed to promoting and supporting environments which:

  • ensure that all people feel welcomed, respected and safe from abuse
  • protect those vulnerable to domestic abuse from actual or potential harm
  • recognise equality amongst people and within relationships
  • enable and encourage concerns to be raised and responded to appropriately and consistently

and goes on to develop these ideas, name our safeguarding reps and talk about wider support. We're a CofE church and I think some form of policy like this is mandatory as part of our safeguarding (yes, I realise as a whole we don't have a great safeguarding record).

I am in C of E too, and on the ground, at parish level safeguarding is taken extremely seriously. We have policies requiring all church people, including parochial church council members (who run the church) and anyone working for the church even in an informal capacity to do regular safeguard training. There is a designated trained safeguarding person in the parish, and at every meeting safeguarding is at the top of the agenda - literally - it is what gets discussed first as a matter of policy (no identifying personal details obviously). Any decent church will have a proper safeguarding policy, so it is shocking that your pastor's wife (!) should take it on herself to deal with the domestic violence you have experienced.
I have read that this happens in conservative evangelical churches in America, but it is hard to believe that such an ignorant and damaging conversation could be held in a church here.
Please do not let the awful situation and advice by your church put you off church altogether. The particular doctrine of the church you attend is not shared by the majority in this country, so you will be able to find one that demonstrates true Christian love and acceptance. Wishing you and your DC happiness and a better life when you have left this man. As others have said, he broke the marriage vows and covenant. The marriage is over and that is because of his actions, not yours.🌺

MyNewLife2025 · 16/01/2025 18:47

@ShuffleShuffleSpin ive somehow been raised in a similar environment. One where any improvement was seen as THE sign the person was doing their best, things would be better and to be much more forgiving towards others because they were clearly struggling.

This is a lot shit. Sorry for the wording.
But being compassionate and forgiving doesn’t include having no boundaries and always putting others before us, before our NEEDS.
That's what a religion that wants to keep,women in line, accepting any crumbs as if they were gold, does.

Its very hard to learn it’s ok to put yourself first.
Its very hard when you’re made to feel that its suddenly somehow your fault if he is struggling because you want to separate when he is making so much efforts.

But you’ve recognise pd that he is an abuser,
Abusers don’t change so quickly.
And even if he did change, it doesn’t mean you have to take him back. It’s also ok to say that his previous behaviour has destroyed the love and trust you had. So there is no coming back.
Dint let anyone over ride your decision there. They’re not living your life. They’re not you. It’s not in them to decide what is or isn’t ok. Or to make you feel guilty about it,

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 19:08

He says he wants to build something new.

Sounds like reconciliation psychobabble bullshit.

You can't wipe out the past like that.

I find it quite disturbing that he's been throwing objects at you, including sharp objects. What if he injures it kills you.

There is something in his personality that lead not only to him shoving you, but to this sort of malicious, sneaky behaviour where he risks injuring someone. He wants to hurt you but wants to do it in a way where he can claim it was some sort of accident.

I don't think someone like that changes.

(I'd also doubt his take on the situation with the woman you mentioned was honest either)..

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 19:18

My pastor’s wife told me “men can change when they are confronted about their violence” and “look how good it is that he hasn’t thrown anything at you, or the thing he did throw (a drawer, a month or so ago) was not at you, what an improvement!”

Your pastor's wife can live with and be intimate with someone who throws sharp objects at her, and throws blunt objects like furniture parts at her from behind (while pretending it's accidental) if she likes ...and she can deal with being hit on the head or the arm or potentially blinded or cut (with a sharp object) if that happens ...and she can lie to the doctors when they ask what happened if she choose; that's entirely her perogative.

It is not her perogative however to encourage other women to live with someone who does that and the associated physical risks to them (and the associated mental stress and trauma).

Oh and she's wrong about violent, abusive men changing; they usually don't.

Someone who knows would be eg Kundy Bancroft, writer of "Why does he do that, inside the mind of angry men" (available free online) who worked with perpetrators of domestic violence in the US for decades. And he doesn't agree.

Or Don Hennessy (author of "How he gets in her head" who worked with victims of domestic violence, and by proxy their abusers) for decades in Ireland.
He doesn't agree either.

She's not qualified to give an opinion. And frankly her "counsel" is irresponsible.
Her agenda is also rooted in religious beliefs and cultural values.

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 19:20

or the thing he did throw (a drawer, a month or so ago) was not at you,

Domestic violence dand abuse defining features include throwing, smashing and breaking objects. That is considered domestic abuse by all credible organisations.

Your pastor's wife is not very well informed, is she?

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 19:24

look how good it is that he hasn’t thrown anything at you

It's a pretty low bar to be praising a man or relationship for long has elapsed since a man has thrown something at you, something that could injure you or worse.

If a stranger threw something at you, they'd end up in the police station.

Why does your pastor's wife think that behaviour that is considered assault outside the home, is relatively nothing within it, and you should see it as a plus point that you haven't had an object chucked at you for however long?
Why does she think wives should accept criminal behaviour from men?

Why don't you try throwing a drawer or a sharp object at him for a change??

What do you think would happen?

I predict you would end up quite seriously assaulted by him in response.

Meanwhile you are supposed to stay, act normal and be grateful for a break in having objects thrown at you.

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 19:36

including throwing a sharp object at me (when neither of us was even upset?!?!?) and other confusing acts such as throwing things at me front behind, and when I confronted him, he would say it was an accident until finally I knew it could not be an accident

That man wants to hurt you, but he wants to pass it off as an accident.

Think about that.

MsWildcat · 16/01/2025 19:38

The biggest bad joke in the world, for women, is marriage.
Marriage can be amazing, but some women seem to be completely brainwashed into thinking that marriage is for life, no matter what.
Marriage was invented by men.
It suits them.
Religion, obviously also invented by men.

For fucks sake, value yourself. Just because you signed up, you don't have to stay.

Him suddenly attending counselling, excellent for his next wife, but you need to learn and leave.

Marriage means absolutely nothing unless he is cherishing you every single day.

He's not.

Please do go and live your life.

tothelefttotheleft · 16/01/2025 19:40

KnitFastDieWarm · 16/01/2025 16:58

I‘m not religious, but my closest friend is a Christian. She says ‘Your husband isn’t fulfilling his duty, in a traditional Christian marriage in which he is the spiritual head of the household, to love, honour and protect you. He’s abusing his power to hurt you; that’s not Godly behaviour - and what sort of example is he setting for the children? He’s violent, manipulative, cruel, and a bad father. Forgiving him on a spiritual level doesn’t mean allowing him to continue to mistreat you. Your pastor’s wife is wrong and you need to leave him, and also find a new church.’

Edited

Exactly. Op your husband is not behaving like a Christian.

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 19:46

I'd imagine the only reason he didn't continue pushing/shoving you and worse is that you stated clearly you knew it was wrong, it was unacceptable .... and he thought if he did it (or worse) again, he'd be reported to your pastor, you might leave him (resulting in him looking like a dysfunctional failure & abuser).

If you hadn't had that boundary and he thought he'd get away with it without any hassle from your church/any real consequences etc., he'd have kept doing it t you and it probably would have escalated.

It must be really quite frustrating for him to have that church/family restraint on him physically hurting and abusing you .....so frustrating that he's trying to do it indirectly and "accidentally".

That, in his character, is not going to change.

(For what it's worth, I'd also put money on him having cheated on you with his "friend".
And again, I'd like to have seen his response if you had been behaving like that with another man).

stormwatcher · 16/01/2025 20:13

I spoke to my Catholic priest as I couldn't risk telling anyone else, and I didn't even give him any of the details, really, just my husband's drinking spiralling and the fact that I had secretly borrowed money and found somewhere to move to. Despite this, I was wracked with guilt at splitting up my family. This was his response:
"You know this can only end one way, don't you? It's as if you're in a car with him on the motorway-you know that he is accelerating, with you and the children in the car, and he will crash that car. Nothing will stop him. But you do have two choices. You can fasten your seatbelts, close your eyes and pray that you and the children survive. Or you can get them out of that car now before he accelerates."
He was a lovely, compassionate, straight talking priest. On bad days, I think of him, and will be eternally grateful that he saw the danger we were in, and refused to sugar coat it.

Twaddlepip · 16/01/2025 20:17

Religion is a scourge. No woman should be manipulated and made to feel guilty for wanting to leave a dangerous and deeply abusive man.

The crying, the threats of suicide and any promises to change are all LIES (he’s not a very good Christian is he? He lies, he cheats, he’s violent and he’s threatening suicide) are all utter, utter nonsense, and designed to frighten you or manipulating you into staying.

He doesn’t want you, he doesn’t want his life to change.

I really hope you get free soon. Show your children what life should be. He broke this, not you. He is a monster.

StrawberryDream24 · 16/01/2025 20:23

Apparently his level of risk is not high enough for me to be required to leave for protection of my children.

I'm surprised that someone throwing sharp objects and things like drawers at a person is not.
What if one of them seriously hurt you. A sharp object could blind you or hit an important artery. A largeish blunt object could give you a head injury or break a bone.
Your children could also accidentally have got in the way of objects being thrown.