December 2024 - but we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

New thread

stripymug I think the reason we at least try very hard with our children is because we LOVE them. Those people don't love anyone, I don't think they even love themselves.

I would watch Mum's interactions with other people and she was just so inappropriate. I used to try to mitigate her idiotic talk to assist the other person then I just stopped.

It would amuse me to smile benignly at a wall while she boasted to waitresses and nurses about the oddest things.

WHY there was no learning or awareness I haven't a clue, maybe just really thick? 😂

Monster ex sister said something once 'you can say anything you like to people as long as you laugh when you do it' she meant you could deliver really horrible insults.

What she didn't realise was that people may be shocked and not say anything in the moment but they'll hate you afterwards.

This gave me comfort during the smear campaigns. People may have smiled and nodded and said 'gosh, that sounds difficult' to their faces but they'd walk away and think 'what a nasty bitch'.

So despite talking about EVERYONE behind their backs it never occurred to her to complete the circle and think that others have opinions too.

WHY do they do it? Who knows who cares, they choose to.

I'm proud of my relationship with my kids. I was determined that my kids would know that I love them unconditionally. That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated with them but any exchange of words would be about the subject in hand. I never want to hurt them or attack their character.

@Dogaredabomb Your mention of "idiotic talk" is so spot on! I always used to refer to it as batshittery! Mum was always a great one for creating problems where there weren't any and the swooping in to save the day, much to the bemusement of other more normal people! Makes me cringe just thinking about it!

This has been on my mind a lot since my Nan died last year and seeing my mums reaction at her deathbed. It seemed so performative, over the top and the same at her funeral which she managed to make all about herself. I feel completely empty at the thought of us being in that situation, I can’t imagine feeling anything but relief and that makes me feel like a horrible person.

Im having a really hard day. It’s my kids birthday and I’m sat here crying (they are at school and I kept it together this morning). I’ve had multiple miscarriages and a TFMR (awful HG, health complications where I nearly died at 6 weeks pregnant my body started to shut down, potential I wouldn’t have survived the pregnancy). Its just a reminder that my kid should have a sibling here.

I had a MMC at the end of last year, needed surgery, got an infection, which then turned septic (more days in hospital feels awful and on IV drips). I’ve got consultant appointments coming up for reoccurring miscarriage too.

I did not tell my mum as I find she’s not very emotionally supportive. I ended up telling her about my hospital stay for the MMC. She said I’m sorry to hear this but then asked me “could you just not cope with the pregnancy again” alluding that my TFMR was a choice or my fault and asking if I had another one. No I got told my baby had no heart beat. Pregnancy is hard for me due to the sickness / PTSD etc.

She then started to telling me I should just be grateful for the child I have as some people have no children. I mentioned I don’t find these kind of comments helpful and worked out in therpy I prefer time to grieve and just sit with my emotions, I do appreciate what I have just not at the beginning of a loss. She then snapped at me and stated she’s sorry she can’t comfort me the way I want and she won’t bother trying again, I should just go speak to my therapist (I don’t have a regular therapist just when Im feeling down I will use resource from NHS which only last 6-8 weeks at a time). And now she’s not mentioned it again or checked in.

My miscarriage this time last year, I rang her to tell her, she said sorry and then that was it. Her next message to me was a week later to sign a petition for my sister (an automated link text message). Not even a text message to ask how I was doing….im starting to wonder if my expectations are too high. Maybe this is how all mothers are, should I not expect her to check in days or weeks later?

I just want a mum who I feel loved me, that when I’m sad will come and give me a hug, stroke my hair and tell me it will all be ok. That what I’ve through is shit / horrible and she can’t even begin to understand the pain as she’s never had losses. That will come to me and I will comforted. But I’m never going to get that.

@Pointpoint Im sorry that sounds really awful. It’s just awful we don’t have the support that we need. I suffered a miscarriage 2 years ago and didn’t tell my mum because nothing I needed would have come from it. My partner told his mum whose response was it was probably for the best. Im not sure if its a common thing that people just don’t know what to say but you’d think a mum would just want to wrap you up from the pain from whatever the source.

Yeah of all people you expect your mum to provide comfort, and it feels like I’m grieving for that loss of the mum I want too. It just sucks when you see people with parents who help their kids and seems to genuinely care about them.

@Pointpoint sending you love and a hug. Some things are so much harder to deal with, especially without support. Xx

@Pointpoint Some people just aren’t nice or well equipped to be decent people for whatever their reasons and it’s unfortunate that some of these people are our parents. It’s only down to bad luck but it does hurt. It forces us to go against human nature of connection to our parents. It’s an awful place for many of us born out of pure bad luck and mental necessity. It’s not you it’s them but it doesn’t feel nice at all and it makes you feel afloat in the world. My only advice is to seek those who understand and form these bonds elsewhere (it is not the same but it’s at least something).

@Happyfarm @Pointpoint I'm so sorry for your losses - it's such a difficult time.
Sadly, I think most mothers would not act in the way ours do when faced with their children having such difficult times. After my first miscarriage, mine insisted on taking me shopping to "make me feel better". I had had a d&c and really wanted to snuggle up in bed but wasn't strong enough to deal either the inevitable fallout from saying no.
Second time (when I lost twins) she told me she knew exactly how I felt as she hadn't got pregnant with my brother until the second month of trying. It had taken us nearly 3 years. She had never had a miscarriage.
Sometimes all I can do is just feel really proud of myself for not being like her!

@Pointpoint I am sorry you are going through a shit time. Sometimes grief can be overwhelming, but usually it does become easier to manage over the years. I wonder if it is possible that your mum thought she was being supportive about your loss but was just a bit clumsy and unwittingly hurtful with her choice of words (and then stupidly defensive when she snapped at you)? Could her failure to try to offer comfort since she snapped at you, actually be respecting your preference to grieve and sit with your feelings? I suppose, even if such things are possible, whether they are likely is a different question and that would need to be assessed according to your knowledge of and feelings about your mother based on a broad range of interactions over the years. What do you think would happen if you told your mum you were sad and wanted her to come and hug you, stroke your hair and tell you she loves you and tell you she is sad that you are going through such a horrible experience. Would she do that do you think, and not seek to question you or offer shit advice, or attach strings to acting in a compassionate manner, use it as ammo later, revel in the drama and relay it to other people with her suffering and selflessness being the focus of her narrative?

She wouldn’t know how to react if I told her I was sad, she would say things like I’ve been sad in x situation or Steve down the road is sad about x.

It’s always comparing, or saying someone else has it worse. She 100% wouldn’t come and do it, probably make an excuse and ignore it. Then talk to other people about how I’m depressed and it’s so hard for her. I once asked her to come help look after my child for one day while I tried to work when they where the tail end of chicken pox and she refused saying she was painting the living room.

Readytoevolve

A good mantra here is that if a parent is too toxic/difficult/batshit for YOU to deal with it's the SAME deal for your children as well. Keep your DC well away from your mother this serial abuser. Why would you feel bad for her not seeing them when she does not deserve you in her life?. Why would you at all subject your children to her after all you've been through at her hands?. She will harm your children not too dissimilarly as to how you have been harmed. You likely have this confusion as well because of the FOG; the fear, obligation and guilt that was installed in you from a young age. You've also likely received the Special Training to put her first with your own needs and wants dead last.

Children as well need emotionally healthy grandparent figures ideally and your mother does not fit the bill. She also does not have a relationship with her other grandchildren as well which explains a great deal too.

You need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. And indeed you're right; you do deserve better.

Gudinne

What Pointpoint is describing here re her mother is typical of how a narcissistic parent would behave. They like making any and all social occasions (particularly funerals) all about them.

Pointpoint - it's not your fault your mother is like this and you did not make her that way. You are going to have to let go of any and all residual hope that she will change somehow and say sorry. It is really not possible either to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking.

@AttilaTheMeerkat my sister is convinced who is NC with her that she’s a narcissist. I have wondered the same but she comes across as nice to other people but can be oddly cold and then is extremely judgement about others. She loves to tell me other peoples health issues or that the neighbour has money issues (hasn’t been told directly they have assumed).

But I have also considered if she’s just neurodivergent, being autistic could fit the lack of empathy and not really understanding how to comfort someone.

Has this ever been discussed on these types of thread before? Any insights?

@Pointpoint im sorry you’ve had to go through so much loss. it’s horrible when you’re going through tough times and you can’t even rely on your mum to give you support. I don’t give my mum any information any more, she doesn’t ask and if I ever have been vulnerable and opened up to her she treats it with indifference “oh yes me too!” And then uses it as conversational material with her friends.

I recently realised that I fit a lot of autistic traits, I’m not diagnosed but that did make me consider that if I am, then there’s a possibility my mum is too and it would explain some of her difficulty dealing with emotions and social situations. In a way that helps as I see how in the past I was a lot like her and I think I’ve only realised these things through exposure and learning from mistakes, and maybe she’s never had those experiences. But it still really cuts deep when she tramples over boundaries and has no empathy or interest in my life.

Some people are emotionally immature but that does not mean they are on an autistic spectrum. Many people on the ASD spectrum do and can show empathy. It is narcissistic people who have no empathy.

IMO coconut rice from what you’re written about your mother she does come across as a narcissist. Such types of people really do have no empathy . I would think you’ve received the Special training also to put her needs first with your own dead last.

If you have not been diagnosed then you have not been diagnosed, I am also tired of ASD being cited as a potential reason for such terrible behaviour from a parent.

Point point

Given what you’ve written about your mother I think your sister is correct re your mother in that she is a narcissist. Such people really do have NO empathy. People on the ASD spectrum can be highly empathetic and can comfort others!.

My MIL is just like your mother and she’s a narcissist. Pillar of the Community etc but highly judgmental. She made her late Hs funeral all about her as well as bothering my H at work to ask him about whether she should put gold or silver lettering on the headstone.

I would urge everyone on this thread to educate yourself properly re ASD and what it entails because it’s also not a personality disorder or a mental heath condition.

Oh my mum is definitely a narcissist, I suppose I’ve just always wondered where it comes from or how someone becomes that lacking in empathy. Giving it a reason maybe makes it easier to deal with, I’ll never know how my mums brain works but the reality that she just doesn’t give a shit about me is hard to swallow.

I don’t believe all autistic people have no empathy and no, I’ve not been diagnosed, but it has been suggested to me by others and the only reason I haven’t sought out a diagnosis is because it hasn’t significantly affected me in a day to day living sense and I don’t want to use NHS resource / pay £2k just to satisfy my own curiosity.

My MIL was put on a pedestal by her parents who further indulged her every need and enforced how special she was (war baby). She was sent to the quiet junior school whereas her sister was sent to the “rough and tumble” junior school.

Sounds familiar, my mum was only girl with 4 brothers, though she accuses one of her brothers of being a narcissist (I think he is too, but makes me laugh she doesn’t realise she is). She’s very bitter about not being allowed to follow her dream of going to college and having to work in family business, I don’t know how that fits into it but I think it relates to how she sees me, she has no interest in my career or achievements. She also complains about how her mother was emotionally unavailable to her and how she always wanted to make sure she was the opposite… but couldn’t have been less emotionally unavailable to me. Some of her behaviour is so bizarre I’d just love to have someone actually explain it and where the hell it all comes from.

@AttilaTheMeerkat sorry I didn’t mean to offend anyone who is ND.

I am currently undergoing assessment for ND (and I almost feel too much, I think I’ve over compensated for my mother). So I didn’t mean it as a sweeping statement for all ND, but I do know there are genetic trends.

Just I guess my mum in some ways does fit both and doesn’t fit both in terms of being ND or a Narc. I would love to get my mum assessed to find an answer.

Point I think trying to focus on the reason is part of the cycle of abuse whereby you subconsciously believe that if you can find the reason ie identify the problem, you may be able to find a solution. That thought process keeps you trapped in the cycle of abuse and it's also a way that, by their behaviour, they've got you focused solely on them for an unhealthy amount of time. Which is also part of what happens when you're in an abusive relationship.

The only real solution is to focus on your own life and behaviour, because that's within your control. The why doesn't actually matter, although I know it feels like it does when you're in the thick of it. You could train as a psychiatrist though and have the skills and qualifications and knowledge to enable you to assess her, but although you'd have your answers it still wouldn't change a damn thing.

Coconut
she has no interest in my career or achievements. She also complains about how her mother was emotionally unavailable to her and how she always wanted to make sure she was the opposite… but couldn’t have been less emotionally unavailable to me.

I read that and thought she's jealous of your ability to achieve what she couldn't and incapable of evolving beyond the example shown her by her parents.

I agree, I've spent a lot of time and energy on the WHY. The only conclusion that I came to was because they're horrible. And that it doesn't matter.

Another thing that has pleased me greatly now that I'm out of it is realising that they're just little nubs of people. Empty.

Strong people don't put others down, they lift them up.

And with smear campaigns I think when they say crap to normal people the normals probably just smile and nod and make a note to themselves that they're weird and horrible people.