SIL had an affair and run off with the kids

[BackoffSusan]

Earlier this year SIL started behaving rather recklessly - lots of drinking at home, disappearing for over night benders with my brothers best mate, saying she wanted to stay in a hotel on her own and she hated being "just a mum". She'd only been married 6 months but I thought she was having a breakdown or depressive episode. She then instigated a separation from my brother in April. They both went their separate ways, and then in June it transpired she was in a relationship with my brothers best mate and been having an affair. The best mate then moved away in September - about an hour and half away from the town where she and my brother lived. Then last month she disappeared with the kids. Up to this point my brother had been seeing the kids twice a week with an overnight stay on the weekend.
My brother has no idea where she is. We assume she has moved in with the new bloke but she and new bloke have blocked everyone so we can't contact any of them. Brother has submitted all the paperwork for a child arrangement order but has been told it can take a really long time. I tried messaging her and ringing but she didn't reply, and then blocked me. I only asked if I could send the kids their Christmas presents or see them. I don't really know what else I can do. Social services and police have been very unhelpful. It feels like they just signpost to each other and now she has left the local area it's hard to know what to do.

Yep, which is why I said “unless there is more to it that OP isn’t aware of”

Did you miss the part where I said I was a police officer? Of many years🤣….. so you can say I’m wrong all you like, but the fact is that I’m not. You could probably contact your local police force and ask them to tell you, in detail, their policy regarding reports of missing persons if you’d like to educate yourself.

Honestly, only on mumsnet could people that are not police officers tell a police officer they’re wrong about police procedure based on their own opinion. Unless of course you are a police officer, in which case, request some training refreshers.

Mate, you’re not the only police officer of many years on this thread. Just the only wrong one.

The police aren't family enforcers. Parents have the right to move area, even without telling the other parent, if there is no court order in place. There is no reason police should visit for a welfare check if there is no actual reason to think the children are at risk of harm. Whether the father should accept the loss of the children is a different question. He has the recourse of the family courts, not the police.

SS would be involved if mental health services felt that there was a safeguarding concern. It is the inconsistencies here that may make SS think twice, SIL had a 'breakdown' but not severe enough that OPs brother felt SIL couldn't have the DC overnight 6 days a week. That is the key difference here. If a parent was already trying to protect their DC from an unsuitable parent, and that parent disappeared, this would be concerning. Less concerning when a parent that is safe enough to look after their DC most of the time dissapears. OPs brother recorded SIL, but didn't take her up on her offer of more time with the DC, so why was he recording her? To create a narrative? Was the full interaction recorded? Or just a reaction from SIL? We do not know all of the facts here, OP says she doesn't know all of the facts. So leave the people in the situation to deal with it.

It needs to be an urgent child arrangements order as what's happening is not in the child's best interest assuming he's a safe dad it's not good for the kids to suddenly stop seeing him. Has she registered with child maintenance?

I have to ask - are you certain your brother is telling truth and there was no dv/shes not gone to a refuge.

I am not a police officer, I work in family law.

There you go OP. Very clear.

If he knows the area he could write to all primary schools and send the birth certificate and ask them to confirm whether they do or do not have his child enrolled there

I’ve attached the national police definition of a missing person for you since you seem to be completely ignorant of it. Mate.

She will probably just lie and say he's a flatmate not a partner, she doesn't sound honest

Cool. So unaware of police procedure then. That’s okay, you can’t know until you know. Happy to help.

Hey op
your brother can apply for an emergency prohibited steps order for her to return the children to the area they lived in. You don’t need her address to do this as they are able to locate but you might need to apply for that also

Have you read what you posted? Point 3.3 sets out who should be considered a missing person in relation to whether they should be reported to police and whether action should be taken. It's quite clear that just moving away without telling people where you have gone does NOT make someone a missing person!

And it doesn't apply to the family in question. Mate.

Very much aware of police procedures. I work with them closely, and yes in relation to missing people too.

Does your bother have no contact details for SILs wider family - his in laws? Or any of her friends?

Maybe there is an actual reason to think that the children are at risk of harm. OP has said:

'But he's since shown me videos (after she instigated the separation) he had taken of her physically attacking him, and being verbally abusive - calling him ugly and old etc.'

She was also drinking heavily in the home.

OP's brother is going through the family courts but quite understandably he just wants to know that his children are OK.

I don't know whether you have children, but if you do, would you be so phlegmatic and calm if you hadn't seen or spoken to your children for months and had no idea whether they were OK?

It's a long process but your brother needs to go through court.
Obviously first hearing she won't be there but the judge will make an order for the mums details these won't be shared with your brother, judge can order hmrc dwp to give details and they normally stop payments so the parent has to tell dwp hmrc where they are court then sends the next hearing to that address... they either turn up or don't in which case court will force their attendance by issuing fine warrant etc and social will be involved

Your DB's solicitor can make an application to the Court for them to trace her address via HMRC or DWP

That proves my point as none of that applies.

Have you read it?

It does very much apply.

Some of you on here are absolutely nuts, you’ll argue black is white to avoid admitting that you’re incorrect and someone else is more in the know.
Would it surprise you to know that I lead a missing persons team and deal with numerous reports of missing persons on a daily basis? I really do know my onions with this subject.🤣

Mumsnet user: “you’re wrong”

Me: provides actual black and white evidence that proves what I’m saying is correct.

Mumsnet user: “I don’t really want to admit that I’m wrong and that I’ve made myself look a bit silly at this stage, plus I really hate being wrong, so I’ll just blindly maintain that I’m right and you’re wrong, based on nothing but my preconceived opinion, despite evidence to the contrary, because that makes me feel less daft than admitting I know less than some stranger on the internet”

A saying I use far too often, you can’t argue with stupid or ignorant.

I’m going to leave the post now as no point continuing with an argument when I’ve made my point and frankly it’s raising my blood pressure to keep trying🤣

OP, good luck with it all, I hope the relevant checks are done and the kiddos are okay.

@AVeryCovidChristmas I completely agree with you. Something just doesn’t seem to add up here.

There's two things here getting confused.

1. Are the mum and kids alive and well?
2. Where are they?

The OP needs to know 1. asap, and then 2. is already underway through the court process.

As the other parent with PR, I'd be pressing the police to check 1. pretty quickly. I had to phone the local police station desk in the end, spoke to an officer and said that someone needed to check. I asked for their name and said I hoped calls were recorded so that when it was a headline in the Daily Fail all was made clear.
The police went to an address that night (they knew where the 4yo mum's new partner lived) and eventually broke in. It was a flat above a kebab shop on high street. 4yo was home alone, hungry. They found mum and new partner wasted at another address.
I'd been bounced between police, SC and the schools 'missing children's dept for almost a week.
Don't apologise for being the squeaky wheel, but you can ask for them to confirm their safety.

I’m quite satisfied with my knowlege in these matters. I also don’t need to talk about rank or area of specialism or length of service like it’s some pissing competition.
Fact of the matter is the relevant force that hold all the information are also of the opinion that it is for the family court and haven’t launched a missing persons enquiry.

Yes this! All of this is exactly why the police will treat this as a missing persons case if reported to them as such.

The fact is, we don’t know for sure that mum is safe and well, that the kids are safe and well, and their whereabouts.
Yes we may think they are with mum and as a parent with PR she has as much right to them as dad, BUT, we can’t confirm that they’re with her, or that they’re even okay, until the relevant checks are done.

I could up and leave my life right now and take my kid with me, send their dad a message then block him. He’d rightly report us both missing and an investigation would be launched.

Those of you saying she has PR therefore they’re not missing need to think if it from a safeguarding perspective, if we just took folk at their word with these things and didn’t seek to find out more, to prove or disprove accounts, how many kids would fall through the net? How many women would disappear into the ether having come to harm at the hands of partners?