Upsetting encounter with friends husband

[UmbrellaEllaEllaElla]

Went out on the weekend with a big group of friends to celebrate a birthday.

Friend was there with her husband, they've been together 10 years plus and have kids.

Her husband touched my bum, hand around my waist, curled his finger through my hair. Then he leaned in and said 'you're so cute, so gorgeous.'

I've found myself so upset by this. Only earlier in the night she was talking about how happy they were and how wonderful he is.

I dont know whether to say anything. He only did this when she wasn't around. I've been invited to see them before Christmas and not sure it's a good idea.

Should I say something or leave well alone?

@HotCrossBunplease no she didn't mention it in the OP, but the question you asked implies she should have said something at the time.

As someone who has been sexual assaulted and asked "did you tell him to stop? Did you say you were uncomfortable" I know exactly how that feels. It feels like I did something wrong by not speaking out.

But I didn't and neither did OP. Whether you say anything or not to your friend's husband who is making move/inappropriately touching you, they know it's wrong.

Which would be OP thinking about herself rather than her lovely friend.

OP if in 5 years she finds out he's tried it on with multiple people what will you say then? How will you feel if she finds out this happened and you didn't tell her? How would you feel if the tables were turned?

Then let these other multiple women tell. OP doesn’t have to do anything - she doesn’t have any moral duty to tell anything as she has been the victim of the unwanted interactions. She’ll end up with no friend (who will also suffer if she has a scumbag husband and no mates!). I also seriously doubt the friend has zero clue her husband does anything like this. These repeat offenders are rarely subtle.

@HotCrossBunplease If all you were doing was trying to clarify facts, can you really not think of any kinder way to phrase the question to someone who’s obviously feeling stressed and upset about a horrible situation?

Because yeah, the second I read your comment I immediately thought, oh, here we go, there’s always one chiming in with some snarky, judgmental remark. The way you phrased your question was akin to the cunty ‘why didn’t you use your words?’, or ‘and what did he say when you told him to stop sexually assaulting you?’. Freezing and fawning are well known coping mechanisms used by women who feel shocked, vulnerable or unsafe around a man - and are even more common when the man is being totally brazen in a situation where there are immediate broader social consequences. Just from the OP it was pretty clear she’d said nothing at the time.

OP, this exact thing happened to me (multiple times, same friend’s DH). I said nothing to her, swerved him as much as possible and was there for my friend when he eventually left her for a much younger work colleague.

Men like this have constantly got their head on the swivel and will boundary test with women they fancy as a matter of course. He’ll undoubtedly hurt your friend at some point, but you don’t need to be part of that narrative. It doesn’t feel good to stand by and say nothing, but the messenger will more usually get shot than thanked, as it’s much easier to sacrifice a friendship than a marriage, and however you approach it you’ll end up dragged into drama and copping a load of blame for the resulting shitshow. Sorry you’ve been so upset by this twat’s behaviour.

I remember being at a friend's house over Christmas once when they had a family party on Boxing Day, we were 19 and her uncle was there and he did that to me. He was in his mid 40s and it was so creepy but I dare not say anything. I bet it was a regular occurrence, like with this guy. He would have banked on me not doing anything about it and he was right, just like your friend's DH (D=Disgusting, btw).

I'd have told him loudly to get the hell off my arse but hindsight is wonderful. It's tricky as you don't want to lose a friend though if this were me I would avoid seeing him, and only see her one on one, or with women friends.

You have done exactly the right thing op. Keeping distance for a bit avoiding that meet-up should let her husband know that his behaviour is not ok and you won’t tolerate it. I also agree that not telling her is best.

Why all the guilt and shame and blame for the woman who has been sexually assaulted? I get it, I know, as women we do have to stand up to this behaviour but why the woman who is feeling so vulnerable right now? I think we should be taking collective action when we are strong enough to do so, not asking the OP (and other women in a similar situation) to be strong when they have been violated. This is a wicked and complex problem and it’s not going to be sorted out by the OP. The OP should just be looking after herself in whatever way she wants.

Most women know the sleazy husband/boss/uncle/schoolteacher, whatever. We often talk amongst ourselves. We try to protect each other but even when these things do come to light, it’s often somehow the woman’s fault. It wasn’t that bad, why speak up now, you must have led him on, you can’t take a joke. Honestly, there is so much more to lose than to gain for the OP here.

That's all very well except

1. by your logic one of the victims has to say something eventually
2. OP has asked whether she should and hasn't indicated that she feels she couldn't
3. I was responding to the rationale "only the messenger gets shot" which is not about what OP as the victim can manage, and very possibly totally short term as when the friend does eventually find out she's hardly going to be delighted that OP knew and didn't say anything.

If I found out my husband did this to my friend, and the friend didn't tell me, it'd firstly be the end of my relationship, and secondly, the end of my friendship.

I can't understand anyone calling themselves a friend, and keeping something like this to themselves. I'd want to know if my partner was both trying it on with other women, and more so, I'd want to know if they were touching people without consent, like this.

Unfortunately friendship does come with some responsibility - the responsibility to inform friends of inappropriate behaviour by their other half, when your friend is unaware, would absolutely be one of those.

We don't even need to go onto the partner, because we all know he's a loser creep who touches people without consent, which is fucking terrible, and needs to be kicked to the curb - bit hard for her to do that though if everyone has the same mindset as you and keeps schum. Awful.

I've had a family members other half to do this me, it's an awful position to be in, and it made me so angry to have to deal with this and I didn't choose to be put in that position, didn't want the drama or falling out, but the right thing was to tell them. I mean, its going to be a load of drama if she finds out another way, and you didn't tell her.

I don't really understand friendships between women these days, clearly. Probably why my circle is small.

1. if he’s trying it on with his wife’s friends, he is defo doing it with other women. It would be easier for them to spread the word than OP who has a friendship with the wife
2. Ive shared my opinion on that - is that OK with you???
3. the victim doesn’t owe anything to anyone and that includes reporting/telling. Putting it on OP to tell the wife shifts the blame from the perpetrator. Same logic as encouraging women to report rape to protect other women - the onus is NOT on them and they do not have to do anything they don’t feel able to do.
4. your tone is so wanky

Urgh it’s just absolutely infuriating and deeply depressing that not only do women commonly experience sexual assaults and other forms of male violence, they have to act in a certain way WHEN it occurs to make sure they cannot be accused of ‘encouraging’ it. And then AFTER the responsibility is on the woman to prevent the man from further harmful/inappropriate/violent behaviours!

Not to mention women have to prevent being a victim in the first place, of course.

Something is so so wrong with this picture. Men and men alone are responsible for male violence / sexually inappropriate behaviours. Any victims need not feel any responsibility moving forwards, they need to try to heal and protect themselves. As a society we need to get better at shoving responsibility for male violence where it belongs - with men.

1. Fair point
2. You don't need my permission.
3. I certainly wasn't trying to blame or shame OP, I was responding to her post as I read it which was someone who wanted the right outcome for her friend. But I get that it could be interpreted as trying to make his behaviour OP's responsibility.
4. So's yours! I guess that's one of the unfortunate aspects of this medium.

Fair enough 😂 I was getting annoyed by your tone and being arsey back. I get so frustrated by the pressure on women to report rape/sexual assault/harassment - it’s just another way to shift the blame! Thanks for clarifying that wasn’t what you meant, and apologies for misunderstanding you! I think OP is in a lose/lose situation either way tbh.

I agree - what a horrible shame that what sounds like a lovely friendship between 2 nice women is jeopardised by a man who can't appreciate what he has and control himself.

Couldn’t agree with this more. I don’t know what the solution is though. Men who are perpetrators of sexual harassment, assault, and violence against women and girls (including those who don’t think they are) are NEVER going to stand up and say this needs to stop. So women do need to be clear about what is happening, they need to advocate and protest, but without any expectation that any one woman at any one point in time MUST.

@ISpyNoPlumPie I don’t want to de-rail the thread even more but I think more men need to call out this sort of behaviour that is so often accepted and normalised in ‘lad culture’. Rape jokes and inappropriate banter serve to pave the way for men getting away with lower level inappropriate behaviours and then escalating. Also don’t get me started with the systemic misogyny in the police as an organisation, and how people who report assaults are treated - the process is often re-traumatising. Hoping for change in my lifetime!

Probably the woman your husband (hypothetically) assaulted would find it hard to carry on being friends with you.

People can be friends on different terms to the terms that you state. Your terms are not the official terms for a friendship, I - and many others judging by some of the posts here, would find them strange. It is NOT a responsibility of friendship to inform your friend if their partner is a “loser creep who touches people without consent”. It’s bizarre that you think that your rule (something I’ve never ever come across) would apply to other people and their friendships. Have you ever discussed this with any of your friends?

When I think it through, if I ever found out my husband had done this to someone I know, I’d be horrified and disgusted and angry with him only. Why would I be annoyed with my friend? Someone who was sexually assaulted and too scared to speak out. I’d feel awful for them, and I would completely understand why they couldn’t say something. I know how that feels.

Right and wrong might be black and white when it comes to the original act that prompted this post but not so when the OP decides what to do afterwards. It raises questions of right and wrong for who, and becomes are moral, not legal, debate.

You are no mate of hers if you don't tell her.

Sure she might not believe you at first but you need to tell her. Absolute creep.

He’ll deny it, though, say it’s OP’s imagination or, more likely, say it’s her wishful thinking.

Well that’s very thoughtful of you. I’m currently derailing with reckless abandon. Sorry OP if you come back. I think it is important though to know that these things don’t happen in a vacuum and many of us have experience of this. You have to do whatever feels right for you.

Male allies would be useful but I don’t think men understand the female experience when they see it or hear it. I had to go to a pregnancy scan on my own once and a man outside the maternity hospital shouted something sexually aggressive at me. I told my husband but he thought it was amusing (he now understands why it really fucking wasn’t) but he’s never been followed down the street or assaulted so he doesn’t understand the fear of not knowing what is going to happen and what you need to do to stay safe (and knowing that you can’t).

Agree about misogynistic culture and the police. I’ve only ever reported one thing to the police ever and I wouldn’t do that again. Nothing is changing quickly enough. Try not to be depressed by it all. Not surprising but still disappointing.

@ISpyNoPlumPie Sorry that happened to you, so disgusting! I do agree that men will not know these experiences, because they haven’t lived it. I think that male ally ship is important though and contributes to the eradication of the culture of toxic masculinity. My DH and male friends are more clued up on this topic now (probably because I am always ranting on about it) and will call out problematic behaviour if the opportunity arises, which feels like something at least. Boys need to be taught about accountability from a young age, none of this boys will be boys nonsense.

I have had similar experiences with the police, as have many of my friends. Much change is needed!

I hope the OP is okay, it’s very de-stabilising when someone does something so shocking.

Sadly, the reason male ally ship is so important is because a lot of the perpetrators have zero respect for women, and will therefore only listen to men.

It’s actually scary the blatant hatred some men have for women, and the lack of regard for us (or the recognition that we are people and they aren’t entitled to our bodies etc).

People with ‘why didn’t you say anything at the time’ type comments may not understand the disbelief and shock that OP must have been in.

@whatnow5 Ugh yes this is true too, misogyny is so disturbing considering no men would be here if it weren’t for their mothers! Where does it start? Where does it end?!

Not to mention the self-doubt, guilt, shame, embarrassment and not wanting to make a scene! Bet he wasn’t a bit embarrassed either. Horrible prick.