What would you think about this?

[NotSureAboutThisWhatDoYouThink]

I'll he honest. I do have some self esteem issues. I find it difficult to tell when something is the sort of thing other people would be bothered about (eg reasonable) or whether I'm making a mountain out of a molehill (eg unreasonable).

I find that other people saying how they would feel/what they would do helps to get a clearer perspective, if that makes sense?

Until last weekend, I hadn't been out socially since August. Before then, I went out every Saturday night but I just lost my confidence - almost overnight. Some of it was, I suspect, down to perimenipause (I'm 49) and some of it was because I felt that, when I went out, my partner would 'forget' about me. Eg we would arrive together and he'd spend time with me but, once people he knew had arrived, he would wander off to chat and I wouldn't really see him again.

I had a thread in the summer about it and whilst some people felt I should just follow him, tag along and join in conversations with people I didn't know, the majority agreed that it was a bit off of him to leave me on my own.

We had a conversation about it. I gave examples of times when it had happened and how it made me feel. He apologised unreservedly and said he'd been selfish and hadn't seen it from my perspective and promised to "do better."

So, last weekend, we went to a gig. It's one of the things we like(d) to do together. It was an all day thing with 5 or 6 bands on from early afternoon until late evening but we were both really looking forward to seeing the headline band - they're one of my favourites.

The whole day was absolutely fine.

Just before the last band played, we both went to the loo at the same time. The toilets are located at the back of the main room, up some stairs and along a short corridor (in case it matters). As we went in, he said, "I'll see you here in a minute," and gestured towards a specific area meaning outside the toilets.

I came out and waited for him. I didn't really have much sense of the time, but was probably only there for 5/10 mins or so. There were a lot of people we both knew, so I assumed he must have got talking to someone. So I waited. I didn't want to leave in case he came put and thought I was still in the loo and waited himself - given that he said he'd "do better" before.

Eventually, his friend's wife came up to the loo and told me he was downstairs chatting to her husband.

I went down and there he was. No longer chatting but waiting for the band to start. And completely oblivious to the fact that I wasn't there.

When I asked him about it, he said he'd got talking to someone in the loos (a stranger) about the bands and they walked out, past the place we were supposed to meet, still talking, and went downstairs - still talking. He then left the stranger and started talking to is friend and had completely forgotten about me. Just forgotten I was even there to fhe point me not being there didn't remind him.

It really soured it for me. It was the first time I'd been out with him in months and the first opportunity he'd had to consider me. And he forgot about me. Forgot I was even there.

Am I being over sensitive about this or is it something I actually should be concerned about?

And before anyone makes this point - yes, I'm quite capable of going to the loo on my own but, at that point, we had both gone at the same time so he said we'd wait for each other and go back down together.

Thanks.

Mumlaplomb

There have been a couple of things in the past. Nothing too outrageous but just little things that chipped away at my already fragile self esteem and confidence.

Unfortunately, I don't really have any friends. Not ones that haven't already supported me previously when I've been in a crappy relationahip. It's at the point where I think people would have compassion fatigue and assume I'm the problem.

I haven't dated much or been in many relationships and every single one has been obviously bad (to others too) except for this one.

I've had therapy and counselling and done work on myself.

I don't feel worth very much in any area of life, tbh.

q1w2e3r4t5y6

I understand why you're saying that. But I really don't think it's intentionally manipulative.

He's far more outgoing and gregarious than I am. He talks to people and people talk to him. I think he just gets caught up on conversations. But once this has happened, he forgets I'm there.

No. It only happens socially when other people are around. I think he just gets carried away talking to other people and forgets I'm there.

No. No. No.
He’s using social situations to give you the message you’re bottom of his priorities. That’s why you feel so low.
Repetition of the situation reinforces his message. You explaining to him the effect it has upon you has failed you but feeds his ego.
Wake up.
See him for what he is and how he’s treating you. You’re his lamb to the slaughter. He’s jealous of you, destructive and needs to be removed from your life. Stop making excuses for him, believing in the fake person you see privately and doubting yourself.

You're right that explaining it has made no difference.

So you’re saying his friendliness excludes any consciousness of who he’s with and the very person who he proclaims to love? You know, that once he’s in a social situation he flips from the caring, sensitive person he is in private? He can only focus on the person he’s speaking to and completely forgets his partner? He’s such a sincere simple person he can’t hold more than one idea in his head?
Bollox.
When these engrossing conversations have finished, he doesn’t look round for you, does he? He expects you to chase him, to complain about him overlooking you because it conveys to him you value him despite his appalling treatment of you. He has you on the back foot.

Change tack. Walk away as soon as he does it. Say nothing.
Keep walking towards someone else and happiness.

He does come and look for me afterwards but I will admit to not being very receptive by that point, which probably makes.someone he wants to spend time with even less.

I'm pissed off, bored, and feel like an idiot. I did speak with him yesterday about it and just said pretty.much what you said at the start of your last post. He claimed that that is exactly what did happen. That he became distracted and forgot. But when he went back to the place we were before and I wasn't there, he assumed I'd gone to the bar or outside for some fresh air. He didn't remember that he'd agreeed to meet me.

He said the conversation he had with the bloke in the toilet was just banal chit chat and he wasn't even that interested in it. I pointed out that made it worse and he might as well have shagged someone and said it didn't mean anything. At least if it had been an interesting conversation, I could see how it could happen.

He apologised. Again. But I've told.him I can't go out socially with him anymore. So I suppose that speaks volumes anyway.

I said we spoke about it a few weeks ago and he apologised for doing it and then did it again at the first opportunity he had not to.

The problem for me now is that, I'd feel uncomfortable if he 'made an effort'. I want him to spend time with me because he wants to and not because I've told him to.

We're supposed to be going out to something in a couple.of weeks time. It's compulsory that he attends. He can't not. It's something he's organised. But I've already told him I won't be going. He's not happy about it but he can't really say anything either.

I did speak with him yesterday about it and just said pretty.much what you said at the start of your last post.

Who are you answering?

Flip the power here.
A friend of mine is in your situation. He buggers off when he feels like it, she runs after him and he enjoys that she does it. He has zilch respect for her. Sod that.
Go to the event in a couple of weeks time. Engage people in conversation and fail to notice if he isn’t with you. Bluff it. Stop doing post mortems on social occasions with him. Make him take notice and value you. If he doesn’t, get rid of him.
Pick your self-esteem off the floor and start to fly OP.

Is he generally very self-centred?

I've read some of your recent updates and replies OP, and although it was a crappy, thoughtless thing for your partner to do, I think you'd be best to try and look at the bigger picture. It seems like you had a pretty invalidating childhood and from personal experience, this often leaves a legacy of low self esteem and feelings of not being " good enough". I see you've had therapy but your posts saying you don't have friends and that you no longer feel confident enough to go out alone, really indicate depression/ anxiety. Would a trip to the gp be useful do you think? I know when I've been in a very low place, I tend to over focus on one particular incident as if it explains the WHOLE reason for my sadness, whilst avoiding what else is going on within and addressing the real root of my problems. If this sounds familiar, it would be best to avoid making drastic decisions/ ultimatums regarding your relationship until you've received some appropriate help and can think more clearly.

It's at the point where I think people would have compassion fatigue and assume I'm the problem.

With great sympathy I think you may well be the problem. You sound like you have very low self esteem from childhood issues and could benefit from targeted therapy to work on that. I know it's exhausting but things are unlikely to improve while you have those unaddressed issues.

OP what things has he done to chip away at your self esteem?

Separately I wonder if it would be worth seeing your GP as you sound depressed and suffering with anxiety and I wonder if some medication may help with your mental health?

I myself suffer with social anxiety and take medication for this which really helps me come out of my shell. I have known friends get depression and it can show as very low self worth.

Mumlaplomb

This is an example from this week. It's not that he says/does things to chip away at my self esteem intentionally but that I feel so down on myself that everything just does.

We have been binge watching an old b&w TV series from the 50s. It's very 'of it's time' eg all the characters are men in their 60s married to young women in their 30s (if that) and its all very glamorous. I made a joke during one episode on Sunday night about hadn't anyone realised that her husband was three times her age and he said "I know. I was thinking that. All these old men married to beautiful young women and no one ever says a thing. Like they havent even noticed." All he was doing was agreeing with me in not the most revolutionary observation of all time.

And now I can't bear to watch it because now I just feel like I thought we were doing something nice together and enjoying spending time together while he's just been thinking about how beautiful the women are. How can I be anything other than just a disappointment? Sitting on the sofa in my pj's with a blanket? Being decidedly not beautiful and never glamorous? So this week, I've been curled up at the other end of the sofa under my blanket unable to even look at the screen because I don't want to see what he's seeing or imagine what he's thinking about the women because it just makes me feel worse.

He doesn't make comments about other women very often and it's generalisations (like the above) than specific people. The problem is that whenever he does, I can feel myself slip down a rung on the ladder of women who matter to him in my head.

I can't even address it with him because I know how ridiculous it sounds.

Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm not trying to be one of those annoying people who doesn't come back to a thread but it's a busy time of year at work.

No. Generally quite the opposite.

OP I do think that part of the issue here is the lens through which you are interpreting it- which is being influenced by your underlying low self esteem and lack of confidence.

There are two ways in which you could perceive this. Realistically a year ago you were confident enough to be in a band on stage- now you are worried about your partner having conversations with others while you are out and seemingly ignoring you- despite the fact that he is at home attentive and loving. You have chosen to interpret this as meaning that you don’t mean anything to him but there are other ways of seeing this. Maybe he just gets carried away in the atmosphere and having had a few drinks and doesn’t feel the need to constantly reassure you.

I wonder if there could be a hormonal cause for the way you are feeling. I see a lot of women of your age who are going through menopause and this loss of confidence is so so common- feeling anxious about everything, misjudging and overthinking, feeling more paranoid- not feeling like themselves any more. The joy of my job is seeing them three months later after HRT which for some women is totally transformative and makes them back to their previous selves. Please think about seeing a GP if you can.

To give some.context about the 'beautiful women' comment.

When I was in my 20s, I was in a relationship with someone who wouldn't introduce me to his friends, amongst other things. I was young, MN didn't exist and I didn't have very good advice from my mum. Anyway, it transpired that it was because I wasn't 'beautiful' and he was embarrassed about that.

Prior to thar, I went out with a couple of men who criticised my appearance.

I was single for a long time in my 30s and only really started dating again in my mid 40s. I tried a bit of online dating for a few months but again, only met men who criticised my looks and size.

The last man I dated before my current partner, was hyper critical. He did tell me other women were beautiful as a way of putting me down. Compared me and told me I could look more like other women if I tried hard enough.

On one occasion, he took me to the ballet. It started off well enough - was complimentary when he picked me up (told le I looked nice) and held my hand in the theatre but he quickly and obviously became captivated by the lead ballerina, dropped my hand, lent forward in his seat and gushed about her and her femininity and fragility during the interval. By the end of it, he was clearly disappointed in, cold towards and disgusted by me.

I find it very hard to reconcile what people say about attraction being more than looks and the whole person being what matters with my experience. I know that a comment about 'beautiful women' isn't a neutral comment.

Personally Op, I think you need to do some work on your self. He sounds an arse but there are some deep rooted issues here that I think need attention.

Again OP I think you are seeing the ‘beautiful women’ comment through the lens of what has happened to you in the past. It is perfectly possible to say that someone is beautiful without that casting any aspersions at all on the person sitting next to you or reflecting your feelings about them. You are the one who putting this interpretation on it.

Saying someone is beautiful doesn’t mean ‘and I want all women to look like this and wish my partner was different’. It was an idle comment that is taking up too much room in your head because, in the past, you have been made to feel worthless.

My biggest concern with going to the GP (besides not being able to get an appointment!) is that one of my recently lapsed friendships was with a GP.

She told me that, even as a GP, she found it difficult to be taken seriously and be prescribed HRT because, once they heard that her periods were still regular, menopause was dismissed as a reason for her other symptoms. My periods are still as regular as clockwork.

I also have a history of MH issues. I was diagnosed with depression and GAD in my late teens/early 20s and my file is littered with appointments I've made about it. I had a CPN when much younger that fizzled out; counselling and various therapies that haven't worked; an assessment with a psychologist; and a referral for an autism and ADHD assessment (that I never heard anything back from).

I've not engaged with my GP for years. I'm rarely ill, but whenever I have been it's been for insomnia, anxiety, low self esteem, despresive moods/episodes and a feeling of not being able to cope/not being good enough and its never been properly treated or diagnosed. I've just developed coping strategies over the years that have looked like managing the way I work very carefully and keeping my world very small.

I feel a bit embarrassed that I'd just be going back now with another 'MH' complaint and menopause would just be my latest 'could it be this?' tbh

I know and I've tried telling myself this. This is the issue.

It is perfectly possible to say that someone is beautiful without that casting any aspersions at all on the person sitting next to you or reflecting your feelings about them

I know this but I also know its equally likely that it does mean that.

It's got to the point where I can't even have sex because I feel so unattractive. If he initiates sex, I feel my whole body tense and clam up and my mind is racing with thoughts of who or what he has seen/been thinking about today that has made him feel horny. It makes me feel even less attractive and more worthless that he would rather have sex with me than sort himself out. Which I know won't make sense to anyone else.

When I say I've tried telling myself this, I mean this is the level of self talk I engage with constantly and have done for many years but its not having any effect anymore because I feel I'm just making excuses and gaslighting myself when all the evidence is actually to the contrary.

I think some sort of therapy is really necessary because you are trapped in a spiral of negative thoughts, with each new association creating more and more negativity and all of those thoughts reinforcing the others.

Have you tried any body-based work, completely different to talking therapies? EMDR for example, or compassionate inquiry? I wonder if going over the history is actually useful for you and whether what you need is a way of working things through and changing your core beliefs (not something you can just do a CBT workbook for).

I said almost exactly this to a CBT counsellor once. She said CBT is not designed to change core beliefs- that’s what I mean- maybe a completely new approach might help you more. You sound so unhappy I really wish for you to find a way forward out of these woods.

I agree with @AlertCat .

You need some form of intensive, practical therapy.

I agree with your first paragraph but I also wonder how much I could change it now because I completely believe my experience. Logically, it all makes sense so I'd have to completely reject all of my beliefs and experiences but they would also still be there. I think I would just feel more conflicted.

EMDR has been suggested before but I've also been told that it wouldn't work for the above reasons.

I would also feel that, without understanding where this has come from, a therapist wouldn't be able to help because they couldn't without knowing. Otherwise, I'd just be tricking myself and my body.

But I also sometimes feel, when I think about it, that I just need someome to agree with me. To hear my experiences and say, yes, that's a real thing but most people don't realise it and carry on regardless in blissful ignorance. Some people don't matter and there's nothing that can be done about that. At least you've realised it.

And then I could stop thinking about it. Stop worrying about it. Stop trying to change how I feel and making myself uncomfortable and I could just work on accepting it.

Anyway, thank you for listening. I have to go to work now.