DH - not sure what is normal anymore

[Namechange2272]

Named changed but regular poster. Back story is myself and DH have been married for 20 years. Two kids - early teens.

I actually don't know what is a normal interaction anymore so I'm unsure if I am in the wrong or he is. He was going to meet a mutual friend this afternoon to do an activity. The friend is actually closer to me but I have no interest in the activity and it is something they both enjoy so I encouraged him to go to it.

On the way to dropping him to the train station I handed him a gift bag and asked him would he give to our friend. It is a belated birthday gift and I won't see her for a few weeks as we live about an hour away from each other. He went mad and said he wasn't carrying a bag into town and that I always 'have an agenda'. I stayed calm and said it is just a gift and you literally have to carry it on the train and hand it over when you see her.

This led to a massive row and after huffing and puffing he agreed to take the gift bag and give it to her. He has gone off on the train without a second thought and I'm left feeling exhausted and angry. I have asked him to see someone for his angry outbursts (road rage and general negative attitude) and he refuses.

But I actually don't know what is normal anymore and if I'm out of order. Would love some outside perspective on this.

No, this isn't normal OP. Mature adults do not have tantrums when asked to do something, and you should not be walking on eggshells around him.

Does he ever behave this way around the DC? It's extremely damaging for them if so, and they'll be growing up also thinking this is normal.

If he won't address his behaviour then separation is definitely something to consider. It's a shame your family are unsupportive, but having been married to someone who saved all his awfulness for me and our DDs, and was Mr Niceguy to other family, friends and neighbours, I can understand it.

Did your friend have somewhere to put the gift bag , was,she on a train as well ? I'd hate to put a gift bag around all day if I had nowhere to put it .
Not defending him , and putting him aside for a moment , perhaps that was the problem ?

Whilst I agree the mumsnet mantra is normally LTB I think it probably would be a good idea in this case.

I have various issues that I need to be medicated for, otherwise I am a very very difficult person to live with. My DH was at the end of his tether with me and my horrible unreasonableness. I was very unhappy so I sought out help. It's the adult, responsible thing to do. Especially with children in the house. My medication makes me feel like I am not myself but my family are much happier and I am more level and THAT'S what matters OP. I put my family first.

Having a condition is one thing. Having a condition, that you have been told over and over is negatively affecting everyone, is something else. He should be trying the medication along with therapy. Show willing to try at least.

He will not change. The chaos and messiness is very in line with ADHD and if you feel unhappy then please leave. Just because behaviour is caused by a condition, doesn't mean you have to put up with it in your life if it negatively affects you.

There's no excuse for violent and aggressive outbursts.

But I wonder if his ADHD means he struggles with things being sprung on him at the last minute. Lots of people with neurodiversity can struggle with a last minute change of plan or idea, even if to other people it's just a totally normal thing to add to the day.

I guess this is why I posted yesterday. To gauge what is normal. The charity shop bags had been discussed with him. He would never organise or fill them, not would he drop them off himself. He was fine with that yesterday because I said we'd leave a bit earlier. It's right beside where I would drop him for the train.

It was more the gift bag. Do you honestly think I should.prep him to carry this 2 days in advance. It's a small gift bag that would fit in a carrier bag. I think it would be bonkers to have to prep him for that but this is where I can no longer gauge what is reasonable or unreasonable.

He has only gone to see someone in the past when I've instigated a separation. At the moment he thinks we are fine so is refusing. I've been to therapy for the past 2 years and have done a lot of work on myself. I think my boundaries and what I will put up with are changing

I think he was always like this because he is highly anxious and socially awkward. He thinks everyone is looking at him. So he'd be paranoid with the carrier bag.

He was able to mask it before we had kids but it's become more apparent since then. The angry outbursts. He functions at the age of a teenager and will often go down to their level with anger etc.

He always says agenda so by that he means anything else that I might add to a task or day out. So if we were going to one of the kids sporting events I might suggest going to a certain shop on the way back (if it close to the event and not somewhere we'd usually be). He would then say I had a hidden agenda.

I'm so sorry you've gone through this too. Well done for leaving

Yes he does it in front of the DC. Eldest DS asked what he was shouting and over reacting about. DS is very shy but said he'd have no problem carrying the bag himself.

DD has zero respect for him and doesn't hide it.

The friend lives 5 minutes from where they were meeting so could drop it home if she wanted

He would have a negative reaction even if I'd said it the night before. That's why 90% of the time I avoid making any similar requests

I have a adhd partner, and this behaviour isn't normal or acceptable.

Yes, the chaos, emotional disregulation and immaturity can be part of it, but the being an aggressive dickhead isn't OK.

Your life would be a lot easier without this bullshit.

2272 my heart goes out to you as I have lived with a similar situation for a while. Unhappy in my relationship, and with a partner who didn't 'hear me' when I recognised we had issues we needed to work through.
I feel I was between a rock & a hard place - rubbish if I stayed, rubbish if I left.
I made the decision to leave, in the hope that it was the right thing to do for my children (teenagers), & that I could be a role model if they were in an unhealthy relationship. It was a gut feeling that it was the right thing to do. However, if I had known how difficult it would be, I may not have had the courage.
It has taken over a year for him to accept our divorce & move out.
It is incredibly painful & sad still - each day I question if I have done the right thing, only time will tell.
I think the fact that you are having counselling & talking about separating, tells you what you need to do. I wish you peace & happiness for the future

I think it's more complex than just his angry outbursts.

My DM would always tag on extra stops or tasks to any given trip. Just popping here or there. It was never laid out in advance even when she would run through the plan for the day. It was a small extra thing to her, but as the passenger, it was not possible to experience it that way. It was every trip, and never something that benefited the passengers directly. It translated as an utter lack of respect or recognition of the personhood of her passengers. Over the years it felt worse and worse.

The problem is you're thinking of it as one-offs but it's probably most trips so not a one off at all hence his comment "you always have an agenda" - standoffish way of saying "you don't tell me the full plan and this feels highly disrespectful". Which it is. You're not treating him as an equal whose agreement is sought when your desires impact on his time/life.

If you run through and agree the plan for the day, include absolutely everything you want to do that day. The stops, the taking of parcels, the popping in. Otherwise I'm sorry but I can see years of it culminating in the angry outbursts you're seeing now.

Taking that dynamic in conjunction with the indecision on his part e.g. the deodorant purchase decision. It comes off as more a co dependent relationship than anything else. The dynamic sounds like : You make all the decisions and he reserves the right to criticise you for them whenever he fancies / whenever it all gets too much for him.

I think clearer communication would save the marriage to be honest, if you both want to save it that is.

So he's conditioning you not to make requests of him and not to have needs. Adhd traits can be very similar to covert narcissist traits. Have a google and see if it sounds familiar. At least you recognise he won't change (it's in his interests not to). You now have to decide whether you put up with it or leave. It doesn't matter what other people think about your decision. They don't have to live your life.

Great post @Zanatdy
Children lose all respect for men like these and they actively avoid them as they age.

Your second quiet child is so vulnerable to permanent damage.
This takes the form or anxiety, depression, procrastination, addiction, and a irreversible sadness that remains throughout their lives.

Men like this are poisonous to children, particularly the gentle quiet ones.

I have good self esteem and great self respect and am able to stand up for myself BUT I was hugely damaged by my fathers behaviour.
Fortunately I did marry a lovely man.

My father died full of regrets for being a spoiled selfish prick my whole childhood.

If you can at all, get your children away from him.
Save them.

My dear. If you read back your responses to others posts, you know the answer here already. You need to take action and protect your children from learning his awful traits. Otherwise they will grow thinking this is how conduct a relationship. I wish you freedom. I hope you feel strong enough to take back your self esteem.

Re the charity bags - any reason you couldn't drop them off AFTER dropping him off? Dropping them off before means using up his time as well as yours. Was it a punishment for him not helping with the bags previously? If so just be upfront and communicate this out loud. "These bags need to go to the charity shop, it's next to the train station. Since you didn't help get them sorted, I expect you to carry them in as your contribution."

There was no issue with the charity bags yesterday. None whatsoever. I was using a request for that as an example if you'd read the full thread.

It was the gift bag I was asking for some perspective on.

God, split up with the guy. He's a nightmare.

Sorry you are going through this. It sounds so difficult and that's why I am avoiding it. I tried before and he put me through hell, moping around the house and telling the kids I was doing this. It was awful.

If you read the thread you would see that I've repeated over and over again that 90% of the time I don't bother to request anything so it isn't most trips at all.

Even if it is pre-discussed he will say I have an agenda. And the 10% of the time I might want to tag anything on it will be for his/kids/house benefit. For example we might be passing a shop that has something we need to get for one of the kids birthdays, or have an item we need for the house. This is not me deciding that I want to go clothes shopping for myself or something like that.

I totally agree. DD has ADHD and has emotional disregulation but isn't horrible with it.

Yes - 90% of the time I just get on with things myself. Like Christmas for example. I just get on with ordering and organising the presents etc by myself.

He will moan if I ask him to take the decorations down from the attic (I'm afraid of heights) even if this has been pre discussed.