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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this normal?

135 replies

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 18:31

My husband 37, married 5 years and together for 10, is extremely sensitive to percieved control and loss of independence. Whatever my ask of him, he says I am manipulative, abusive, etc etc. Over the years i feel this has made concede on so many things, lower my standards on what i expect of marriage/my husband and pverall has left me doubting myself (and at times i feel like I am losing my sanity)

I fell out with his mother a few years ago; they are extremely close and the adult children deeply loyal to mum and each other. The entire family outcast me pretty quickly. My husband said if he stood up for me he would be outcast too and he made it clear he was not on my side. He also outcast me in many ways; he just dropped doing anything with his family with me included. Everything became private and exclusive. I am not entirely estranged from most his family. This has caused bitter rows, in the midst of fertility problems and IVF.

I have sometimes asked him to avoid certain events with his family as I was feeling so utterly excluded in not being invited; he refused and said i was controlling him. In the middle of IVF as well he insists he should be able to do this; when i tell him how much the stress affects me and that i feel its why the IVF is failing, he says I'm manipulating him with IVF, etc and i will manipulate him more with pregnancy, child, etc if he lets me get away with it. I have had a miscarriage and I begged him during the pregnancy to not go to an event as i was stressed about it; he went anyway. Another time he left me without giving me my trigger injection and went to a family dinner (simply because i has asked him not to go and he couldnt allow that for principles sake).

I have not asked him to never see any of his family again; some of them have been brutal in their rejection of me and i am really hurting from it. I have simply asked him to avoid intimate one to ones with them for a short period of time, particularly as we're commencing IVF again; i have clearly said the request doesnt apply to larger family events, dinners, Xmas, etc but he has simply refused. He says he will not ever discuss again with me on who he sees, when, how, etc period. If i ask him about being a team and putting us first, he says the marriage is most important to him but he absolute detests the talk of priority or primacy.

Am i being unreasonable? Is it normal for a person to feel they need to exercise their independence to this degree? Are my asks manipulative. He exagerrates my asks when he relays it back - "you dont want me to see my family" he insists - but that is hardly what I have asked for. I am so so utterly heartbroken and stressed. I literally feel sensations in my body from stress when these arguments come up and recently i got my period 5 days early in the middle of an argument - he says this is all manipulative and controlling. I am just losing touch with reality i feel; I cant tell anymore if i am right or wrong. I am terrified I am letting myself down but I am also desperately in love with him and want to make my marriage work.

OP posts:
Pinkissmart · 12/11/2024 19:15

OP- stop trying to find a way to make him understand your side. This isn’t a communication issue.
This relationship is deeply, deeply dysfunctional. Please don’t bring a child into this situation- you BOTH will damage that child with your combined toxicity.

Please seek therapy so you can explore why this set up isn’t abhorrent to you, and so you can accept a healthy, loving relationship

Bumblebeestiltskin · 12/11/2024 19:17

To add to everyone else, PLEASE DON'T HAVE A BABY WITH THIS ABUSIVE MAN.

Bessica1970 · 12/11/2024 19:18

I’m going to go against the grain here. I’d do feel some of your behaviour sounds controlling (not wanting him to meet his family 1:1) and manipulative bringing up your period starting early because of an argument).

You also don’t specify why you and his family are estranged.

The relationship doesn’t sound at all healthy though - it’s probably better for you both to find someone more compatible.

TheShellBeach · 12/11/2024 19:20

I feel like I’m reading a different thread to everyone else who’s replied.
Really? Read the OP again.

Why are you asking him not to see his family?
Because he sides with them in their abuse of her.

Why are you unwilling for him to maintain a relationship with them just because you don’t get on with them?
Because she is his wife and deserves respect.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 12/11/2024 19:22

@Hyperbolebaba why in the world are you even with this man who is afraid to be seen to be nice to you??? you are young enought to go out and find someone who truly loves you like a husband should! his family sound absolutely awful and I could foresee them trying to coerce him into going for full custody if you have children with him! he and his family are not good for you and your relationship with your husband is in the shithole!

Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:27

IfIHadAHeart · 12/11/2024 19:13

I feel like I’m reading a different thread to everyone else who’s replied.

Why are you asking him not to see his family? Why are you unwilling for him to maintain a relationship with them just because you don’t get on with them?

If someone told me I should have a six month “pause” on seeing my family, I would leave too!

Unless of course there is to be a huge drip feed as to the nature of the argument with his mum, but the fact that the entire family and even your husband have taken her side, it would suggest you were in the wrong.

Totally agree with this! It is absolutely manipulating and controlling to say he can’t spend time “one to one” with his family for 6 months, if my husband did that he’d be an ex husband real quick.

I don’t particularly get on with my MIL, but I’d never forbid my husband from spending time with her if he wanted to, she is his mum at the end of the day.

Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:30

TheShellBeach · 12/11/2024 19:20

I feel like I’m reading a different thread to everyone else who’s replied.
Really? Read the OP again.

Why are you asking him not to see his family?
Because he sides with them in their abuse of her.

Why are you unwilling for him to maintain a relationship with them just because you don’t get on with them?
Because she is his wife and deserves respect.

That’s a reach if ever I’ve seen one, nowhere has OP said his family have abused her. She fell out with MIL, for reasons unknown, and so was then not invited to family things because she doesn’t get on with MIL. For all we know that falling out had failings on both sides which meant MIL’s family took her side and so also don’t like OP or want to spend time with her.

If I’d had a falling out with MIL and went NC, I’d not be shocked when I wasn’t then invited to family meals!

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:30

TheShellBeach · 12/11/2024 19:20

I feel like I’m reading a different thread to everyone else who’s replied.
Really? Read the OP again.

Why are you asking him not to see his family?
Because he sides with them in their abuse of her.

Why are you unwilling for him to maintain a relationship with them just because you don’t get on with them?
Because she is his wife and deserves respect.

Thank you for the support @TheShellBeach . I dont think i'd say they have been abusive to me; they have simply cut me off socially. They dont see me, speak to me, etc and arrange to see only my husband. Its exclusion (and i dont know if that is abuse).

I dont have a problem with him maintaining a relationships with them (and he has done) but some of the initmate 1:1s hurt at the moment as i just recently had some brutal rejection from some of them. I just asked for a pause on that to heal, especially with IVF.

OP posts:
Flopsythebunny · 12/11/2024 19:32

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 18:34

It should say "I am now estranged from most of his family".Lots of typos. sorry.

Why on earth are you trying to get pregnant by this man?

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:35

Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:30

That’s a reach if ever I’ve seen one, nowhere has OP said his family have abused her. She fell out with MIL, for reasons unknown, and so was then not invited to family things because she doesn’t get on with MIL. For all we know that falling out had failings on both sides which meant MIL’s family took her side and so also don’t like OP or want to spend time with her.

If I’d had a falling out with MIL and went NC, I’d not be shocked when I wasn’t then invited to family meals!

I am not shoked about not being invited to family meals as I agree that I wish to avoid my MIl and vice versa; but I am shocked that others (who are neither witness to dispute nor people i have tried to gossip with/invite opinion of) have cut me off and stopped seeing us together. His sibling have stopped coming over for a drink or dinner (but they're keen to meet 1:1 with my husband). When i tried to ask why and understand the problem, i got told they cant have an unaffected relationship with me when i have problems with their mum. That hurts, thats all. I didnt think asking for pause just for a bit, to heal, was controlling. Afterall, my pain and hurt is real.

OP posts:
Dery · 12/11/2024 19:36

@Hyperbolebaba - your relationship sounds really toxic. It’s a good thing you don’t have shared children with this man. Please end the marriage. The confusion you’re suffering is the cognitive dissonance which arises when a life partner - the person who’s supposed to love you and have your back - is gratuitously unkind to you. He has bullied you so much that you’re unable to make reasonable requests of him. If you ask him to do something he deliberately does the opposite. You’re describing what is at best a deeply incompatible relationship but what in fact sounds like an abusive one.

You say you love him. Why? Why do you love someone who treats you so badly? Love between adults should be conditional. If a partner treats you badly, you should take your love back. Love is not enough, anyway.

Please find a way to get away. It’s not in any child’s interests to be born into such a dysfunctional family. And of course he won’t keep your children away from his family. In a sense, why should he? They’re his children too. So your children will be exposed to and mix with these people who exclude you and who will probably try and turn your children against you. And perhaps even succeed. This man is the wrong father for your future children.

Get out, OP. Before any children arrive.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 12/11/2024 19:37

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:35

I am not shoked about not being invited to family meals as I agree that I wish to avoid my MIl and vice versa; but I am shocked that others (who are neither witness to dispute nor people i have tried to gossip with/invite opinion of) have cut me off and stopped seeing us together. His sibling have stopped coming over for a drink or dinner (but they're keen to meet 1:1 with my husband). When i tried to ask why and understand the problem, i got told they cant have an unaffected relationship with me when i have problems with their mum. That hurts, thats all. I didnt think asking for pause just for a bit, to heal, was controlling. Afterall, my pain and hurt is real.

To be clear, it is controlling to expect your husband not to see his family for six months unless they have done something very, very bad, which it doesn’t sound like they have.

Regardless of that, he still doesn’t sound very nice and the situation seems highly toxic.

Necky1 · 12/11/2024 19:39

OP, tjis is a really toxic environment and that is not a kind man.
Do not bring a baby into this environment.
Contact Women's aid for advice and support.
Stop ignoring your unhappiness.

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:40

YaWeeFurryBastard · 12/11/2024 19:37

To be clear, it is controlling to expect your husband not to see his family for six months unless they have done something very, very bad, which it doesn’t sound like they have.

Regardless of that, he still doesn’t sound very nice and the situation seems highly toxic.

Why do you keep saying "stop seeing his family"; I did not ask for him to not see them at all. I did say i know there are events, dinners, etc coming up and i dont expect him not to go!! Its just the 1:1s that hurt at the moment and i wanted a pause. Why does that not stick and it gets blown into "stop seeing his family"?

OP posts:
Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:41

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:35

I am not shoked about not being invited to family meals as I agree that I wish to avoid my MIl and vice versa; but I am shocked that others (who are neither witness to dispute nor people i have tried to gossip with/invite opinion of) have cut me off and stopped seeing us together. His sibling have stopped coming over for a drink or dinner (but they're keen to meet 1:1 with my husband). When i tried to ask why and understand the problem, i got told they cant have an unaffected relationship with me when i have problems with their mum. That hurts, thats all. I didnt think asking for pause just for a bit, to heal, was controlling. Afterall, my pain and hurt is real.

But it depends why you’ve fallen out doesn’t it?

If my BIL was cruel to my mum, and they had a falling out in which BIL was in the wrong, I wouldn’t want to spend time with BIL either because he’s upset my mum, and she is MY MUM. That’s life, if someone doesn’t like my mum she’s a huge part of my life and I wouldn’t want to spend time with them either. I’m loyal to her, and I wouldn’t willingly spend time with someone who actively hated her.

It is controlling to tell him he can’t spend time with his family.

Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:42

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:40

Why do you keep saying "stop seeing his family"; I did not ask for him to not see them at all. I did say i know there are events, dinners, etc coming up and i dont expect him not to go!! Its just the 1:1s that hurt at the moment and i wanted a pause. Why does that not stick and it gets blown into "stop seeing his family"?

Saying he’s only allowed to see his family on YOUR terms is controlling, it’s not okay.

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:45

Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:42

Saying he’s only allowed to see his family on YOUR terms is controlling, it’s not okay.

fine ok, i dont agree given the context but i understand why you keep saying it, fair enough.

OP posts:
YaWeeFurryBastard · 12/11/2024 19:45

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:40

Why do you keep saying "stop seeing his family"; I did not ask for him to not see them at all. I did say i know there are events, dinners, etc coming up and i dont expect him not to go!! Its just the 1:1s that hurt at the moment and i wanted a pause. Why does that not stick and it gets blown into "stop seeing his family"?

You’re saying he can only see them according to your specific terms and not alone, that is very controlling! I would consider it abusive if my husband said I couldn’t see my brother without others present for six months.

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:47

YaWeeFurryBastard · 12/11/2024 19:45

You’re saying he can only see them according to your specific terms and not alone, that is very controlling! I would consider it abusive if my husband said I couldn’t see my brother without others present for six months.

Ok fine; would you also find it abusive if your husband says he doesnt want your children to visit people he hasnt seen in years (him being an equal parent)?

OP posts:
Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:49

Mrsttcno1 · 12/11/2024 19:41

But it depends why you’ve fallen out doesn’t it?

If my BIL was cruel to my mum, and they had a falling out in which BIL was in the wrong, I wouldn’t want to spend time with BIL either because he’s upset my mum, and she is MY MUM. That’s life, if someone doesn’t like my mum she’s a huge part of my life and I wouldn’t want to spend time with them either. I’m loyal to her, and I wouldn’t willingly spend time with someone who actively hated her.

It is controlling to tell him he can’t spend time with his family.

Ok fair enough; would you similarly be ok to accept that your BIL's kids may not see granny (as granny hates daddy)?

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 12/11/2024 19:49

Over the years I feel this has made me concede on so many things, lower my standards on what I expect of marriage/my husband, and overall has left me doubting myself (and at times I feel like I am losing my sanity)

@Hyperbolebaba This is the classic response to gaslighting. You're being seriously abused.

You're questioning what has happened because he's rewriting history, changing what actually happened, to confuse you.

Please contact Women's Aid and find a way of leaving this man.

TheShellBeach · 12/11/2024 19:51

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:49

Ok fair enough; would you similarly be ok to accept that your BIL's kids may not see granny (as granny hates daddy)?

None of us it's okay.

I'm puzzled by the apologists for male abuse on this thread.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 12/11/2024 19:53

Hyperbolebaba · 12/11/2024 19:47

Ok fine; would you also find it abusive if your husband says he doesnt want your children to visit people he hasnt seen in years (him being an equal parent)?

Sorry I don’t understand the question. If my husband fell out with my family and said he didn’t want my children to see them (without very good reason) then yes I’d consider this controlling and abusive and I would leave him and continue my children’s relationship with my family.

My mum and my dads mother did not get on, no abuse just very different people, but my mum just got on with it and kept her distance and wouldn’t have dreamed of trying to interfere in the relationship or stop us from having a relationship with our grandma.

IfIHadAHeart · 12/11/2024 19:55

We are still missing the key bit of information here - what was the falling out over?

Mix56 · 12/11/2024 19:57

Its not working, you may love him, but it's making you unhappy.
The Matriarch will win over you (already has)
You cannot veto him seeing his family, any more than he can veto you seeing yours.
FGS Do not have a child with this man, honestly he doesn't love you, he gets plenty of things that suit him out of being married, but it stops there.
Better to leave now than ruin the rest of your life.
Read up on "the sunken costs fallacy"

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