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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Mum is dying and I've only recently realised she js a narcissist

115 replies

Spoonweather · 01/11/2024 05:15

I know the advice will be to get some psychotherapy and counselling and I will do but this past few months I've realised my mum is a narcissist and it is very tough.

Had a difficult childhood with a fair amount of emotional neglect from mum in particular, made to feel that I was never enough, there was no interest at all in me on a personal level only what she could use to show off about me (was often told by other people that she had been talking about my achievements etc). Felt very lonely and would burst into tears if adult teachers tor example showed any personal interest in me as didn't have that at home. Constant feeling of not meeting approval, always taking others sides over mine. Not enough medication for my chronic health condition kept in house. Disappointed I didn't go to oxbridge and become a doctor etc.

Have always been a bit vulnerable because all of the above, am a major people pleaser really wanted love etc. I feel sadness I didn't have the sort of relationship so many others have with their parents. If I call home even now - not v often - am told I should have emailed instead. Constantly feeling I should back off and mum has more important things to do. Dad is gentle soul but always under mum's authority. He did show some love to me when growing up.

A conversation with a good friend a month or so ago flagged up that perhaps mum is a kind of narcissist. I've been thinking about and researching this ever since and there are many ways in which mum fits the profile of a narcissist.

Mum now has parkinsons is 14 years or so in and is now becoming quite unwell. Obviously we don't have the sort of close relationship where I go and see her often or call. She has never wanted one to one time with me or to go anywhere together.

Mum is now physically very weak but is the same way towards me she has always been

Has anyone else been in this situation? I have accepted the relationship has never been and would never be what I would want. Her passing away won't make a huge difference to my life as we have never been close. But it still feels so so strange. I feel sad for the girl who wanted a mum but has never had one. I feel that really my whole life when I look back has just been one big search for love. Thankfully I have found this with my own family but this situation with mum will always hurt I think in her life and her death. Xx

OP posts:
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 03/11/2024 21:29

I felt love for mum when I was very young and remember being very upset at the age of six when, ironically, I realised she was going to die one day. But it must have fizzled out over time and no I don't remember feeling much towards either of my parents from the early teens onwards.

@Spoonweather there is an old author, profoundly humanitarian and also pragmatic, who is long forgotten now. He had a reverence for parents, because they do after all give us life.

But he also pointed out that while we naturally love our parents, sometimes those parents do nothing to earn our love (indeed, they actively starve and stifle it) and then it can wither and die. All that is left is duty.

(He also pointed out that it is the parents who do least to earn our love and loyalty who demand them as rights the most, which is not quite your situation but does give pause for thought!)

Spoonweather · 03/11/2024 21:38

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 03/11/2024 21:29

I felt love for mum when I was very young and remember being very upset at the age of six when, ironically, I realised she was going to die one day. But it must have fizzled out over time and no I don't remember feeling much towards either of my parents from the early teens onwards.

@Spoonweather there is an old author, profoundly humanitarian and also pragmatic, who is long forgotten now. He had a reverence for parents, because they do after all give us life.

But he also pointed out that while we naturally love our parents, sometimes those parents do nothing to earn our love (indeed, they actively starve and stifle it) and then it can wither and die. All that is left is duty.

(He also pointed out that it is the parents who do least to earn our love and loyalty who demand them as rights the most, which is not quite your situation but does give pause for thought!)

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress thank you yes I think a lot of us know about the duty part! And yes of course I'm sure that is no coincidence but more that my damage has popped up and I've realised how damaged I probably am just from seeing friendships dying out and some people distancing themselves from me. I think I've probably been depressed and anxious for a long time about family relations in particular and it's reached a sort of sticking point that things need to be unravelled... know thyself and all of that...

OP posts:
Caswallonthefox · 03/11/2024 22:37

If you feel happy that your mother will be dead soon, don't feel guilty!
I had counselling before my mother died because of this and they told me that it was OK.
My mother was emotionally absent for all of my life and she was a control freak. I didn't go to her funeral, but I did sit in my local church for 10 minutes on my own, on the day.
I still don't feel bad and she's been gone for 10 years.

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 00:16

Caswallonthefox · 03/11/2024 22:37

If you feel happy that your mother will be dead soon, don't feel guilty!
I had counselling before my mother died because of this and they told me that it was OK.
My mother was emotionally absent for all of my life and she was a control freak. I didn't go to her funeral, but I did sit in my local church for 10 minutes on my own, on the day.
I still don't feel bad and she's been gone for 10 years.

Wow good for you! Have you had any negative emotions since or just happiness / relief?

OP posts:
Mummyissues · 04/11/2024 01:23

I too have a difficult relationship with my mother. Having my own children really brought my emotions to the forefront and I had to reconcile those feelings / the contrast in how I mother my own children. My feelings about her have recently become much more settled and I see the positives, and I love her, but it will always be sad.

I find it really unhelpful when other people who don't know my mother at all come and minimise my experiences, presumably out of some defensiveness they feel (projecting themselves into my mother's role?), so I just wanted to say what you are going through is not trivial. You don't need to "be wary of armchair diagnosis" you are trying to understand and process what you KNOW about your mother and these labels are just for you.

I have come to frame many of my mother's shortcomings in the context of her own abusive childhood, probable/possible neurodiversity (more broadly, her limitations) and her constant need to soothe herself - probably because of the first two factors.

Children need to have a mother to soothe them - from an evolutionary perspective it's not just a nice-to-have but a matter of life and death. If you don't endear yourself sufficiently to a primary carer (a mother) to evoke adequate caregiving responses, you die. Sadly this is still the fate of many children. This deep, pervasive biological urge to be loved by a mother, our first longing and first instinct stays with us for life I believe. It's the reason why as an adult woman and a mother yourself, your relationship to your own mother still feels so relevant. It may also be the reason behind many of her behaviours.

Eg one facet of your mother seems to be a need for validation/attention which has paramount importance to her and she lacks both the insight and the emotional/social tools to deal with that and function well as a mother/grandmother at the same time. If that relates to a deeper emotional need to be loved / seen / soothed as a child then it probably emotionally feels like survival to her, and being without validation/attention may emotionally feel like a survival threat. In another life she could have used some talent of hers to be highly successful, not become a parent at all, and her needs might have been better met and her shortcomings could have gone by the by. Equally, perhaps not depending on how dysfunctional she is.

Unlike your mother who is emotionally distant, mine was enmeshed and parentified me. She used me to soothe herself. It's all shades of the same thing - emotional immaturity, overwhelming needs of their own etc. I found the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother" helpful for understanding how my mother could feel like very different people at times (though I think "Borderline" is probably a defunct label) and also just validating how horrible (and also confusing) that was for me at times. It might not be such a good fit for you but you could try it. I found the whole thing online as a free PDF. It made me feel like I could make better sense of it all, and that I wasn't just mad / imagining it.

I think probably both of our mothers don't/didn't know how to be different. They also existed within a different parenting culture where I think emotionally supporting your children wasn't the focus. Emotional awareness in general, was on a pretty low ebb I'd say for those raising kids in the 80s/90s. Many people from that generation drink a lot, for a reason I think! There is a legacy of multi generational trauma perhaps from the first and second world wars, and/or from the extremely weird quasi-industrial parenting practices that were popular in the 50s and 60s.

The internet, with all its access to information, support and solidarity didn't exist either for our mothers. So it was more difficult for them to understand and process their own emotional issues. I think a lot of people (not all) really fix in their ways from middle age onwards, and very possibly much earlier than that.

Anyway, the point of this was really meant to be solidarity. And to say, yes of course it really matters. Even though it was in the past. Even though she won't change. I think you will feel many different things at different stages as you process your relationship with her, perhaps including hatred, anger and resentment. As your mother is dying, you might still be going through those feelings after her death. I'm sorry for the extra difficulty that may cause you. My advice would be to accept those feelings forgive, don't feel guilty or shame yourself for them, but also don't act upon them hastily. You seem like a thoughtful and conscientious person. I think you'll gain wisdom from your pain, unlike your mother.

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 06:37

Mummyissues · 04/11/2024 01:23

I too have a difficult relationship with my mother. Having my own children really brought my emotions to the forefront and I had to reconcile those feelings / the contrast in how I mother my own children. My feelings about her have recently become much more settled and I see the positives, and I love her, but it will always be sad.

I find it really unhelpful when other people who don't know my mother at all come and minimise my experiences, presumably out of some defensiveness they feel (projecting themselves into my mother's role?), so I just wanted to say what you are going through is not trivial. You don't need to "be wary of armchair diagnosis" you are trying to understand and process what you KNOW about your mother and these labels are just for you.

I have come to frame many of my mother's shortcomings in the context of her own abusive childhood, probable/possible neurodiversity (more broadly, her limitations) and her constant need to soothe herself - probably because of the first two factors.

Children need to have a mother to soothe them - from an evolutionary perspective it's not just a nice-to-have but a matter of life and death. If you don't endear yourself sufficiently to a primary carer (a mother) to evoke adequate caregiving responses, you die. Sadly this is still the fate of many children. This deep, pervasive biological urge to be loved by a mother, our first longing and first instinct stays with us for life I believe. It's the reason why as an adult woman and a mother yourself, your relationship to your own mother still feels so relevant. It may also be the reason behind many of her behaviours.

Eg one facet of your mother seems to be a need for validation/attention which has paramount importance to her and she lacks both the insight and the emotional/social tools to deal with that and function well as a mother/grandmother at the same time. If that relates to a deeper emotional need to be loved / seen / soothed as a child then it probably emotionally feels like survival to her, and being without validation/attention may emotionally feel like a survival threat. In another life she could have used some talent of hers to be highly successful, not become a parent at all, and her needs might have been better met and her shortcomings could have gone by the by. Equally, perhaps not depending on how dysfunctional she is.

Unlike your mother who is emotionally distant, mine was enmeshed and parentified me. She used me to soothe herself. It's all shades of the same thing - emotional immaturity, overwhelming needs of their own etc. I found the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother" helpful for understanding how my mother could feel like very different people at times (though I think "Borderline" is probably a defunct label) and also just validating how horrible (and also confusing) that was for me at times. It might not be such a good fit for you but you could try it. I found the whole thing online as a free PDF. It made me feel like I could make better sense of it all, and that I wasn't just mad / imagining it.

I think probably both of our mothers don't/didn't know how to be different. They also existed within a different parenting culture where I think emotionally supporting your children wasn't the focus. Emotional awareness in general, was on a pretty low ebb I'd say for those raising kids in the 80s/90s. Many people from that generation drink a lot, for a reason I think! There is a legacy of multi generational trauma perhaps from the first and second world wars, and/or from the extremely weird quasi-industrial parenting practices that were popular in the 50s and 60s.

The internet, with all its access to information, support and solidarity didn't exist either for our mothers. So it was more difficult for them to understand and process their own emotional issues. I think a lot of people (not all) really fix in their ways from middle age onwards, and very possibly much earlier than that.

Anyway, the point of this was really meant to be solidarity. And to say, yes of course it really matters. Even though it was in the past. Even though she won't change. I think you will feel many different things at different stages as you process your relationship with her, perhaps including hatred, anger and resentment. As your mother is dying, you might still be going through those feelings after her death. I'm sorry for the extra difficulty that may cause you. My advice would be to accept those feelings forgive, don't feel guilty or shame yourself for them, but also don't act upon them hastily. You seem like a thoughtful and conscientious person. I think you'll gain wisdom from your pain, unlike your mother.

Edited

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think you are right that having validation must sooth my mother and that is a survival matter for her. I am sure that is true actually thank you for the insight but sadly it hasn't been at all beneficial to me and has felt as though I and now my children are being used to give her the validation for survival. I have no idea whether mum would ever know how damaging this has been to me or whether she would care? As her needs and her emotions have always been paramount and she made that very clear when I was a child.

I do try to be compassionate I really do because as I say her childhood was bad to the extreme.but as other pp have posted her parenting has not been good enough and just to sit with that for a while does make me feel a but better and less confused and enables some separation from her which does help.

Thank you for the book recommendation I will have a look for it.

I know I will be expected to say something publicly at the funeral and lately I've been lying in bed at night thinking of what good qualities I can talk about. I can talk about her crafting. Also fhat her and dad enjoyed being grandparents especially when our children were young. And the rest I am going to have to make up / get from.generic / Internet funeral speeches.

When we talk about post death I think I honestly will feel free. Free of feeling a disappointment, free of hoping that things can ever get better and free of having to put on a front when I see her that everything is normal and is okay.

OP posts:
desperatelywaiting · 04/11/2024 06:48

I'm going through similar. You need to work with a trauma informed specialist. Her passing won't just clear it up, it has the potential to really affect you. I would be prepared undoing some of the narratives you've lived with. Have a look at patrickteahanofficial and nate_postlethewait on IG, they have some great things. I did a webinar with them recently about relationships with people who are like this who are elderly or dying, it was really helpful

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 07:00

desperatelywaiting · 04/11/2024 06:48

I'm going through similar. You need to work with a trauma informed specialist. Her passing won't just clear it up, it has the potential to really affect you. I would be prepared undoing some of the narratives you've lived with. Have a look at patrickteahanofficial and nate_postlethewait on IG, they have some great things. I did a webinar with them recently about relationships with people who are like this who are elderly or dying, it was really helpful

How did you find your trauma specialist @desperatelywaiting ?

OP posts:
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 04/11/2024 08:46

I have no idea whether mum would ever know how damaging this has been to me or whether she would care?

It's possible, if she is emotionally stuck as a tiny child who hasn't developed (if), that she is so overwhelmed emotionally by her own needs that she can't see beyond them to other people. It can go one of two ways - those needs get buried but never fade, or they can overwhelm the person and the ability to see beyond their own nose vanishes.

It could also be that she just doesn't care. But unhappy people tend to find it hard to really 'see' others and value them, I think.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 04/11/2024 11:28

I hope everyone is surviving.

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 15:16

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 04/11/2024 11:28

I hope everyone is surviving.

I hope everyone is too. Such a deep and emotional thread xx

OP posts:
Caswallonthefox · 04/11/2024 21:39

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 00:16

Wow good for you! Have you had any negative emotions since or just happiness / relief?

I've just kinda blanked her out of my life. To the point where I'm surprised how long she's been dead.
My mental health has been shit for most of my life but since she's no longer in it it's better. She was the biggest reason I self harmed. Now I dont. Haven't since the day I found out she died.
The biggest emotion, aside from happiness, has been relief.

Mummyissues · 04/11/2024 22:09

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 06:37

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think you are right that having validation must sooth my mother and that is a survival matter for her. I am sure that is true actually thank you for the insight but sadly it hasn't been at all beneficial to me and has felt as though I and now my children are being used to give her the validation for survival. I have no idea whether mum would ever know how damaging this has been to me or whether she would care? As her needs and her emotions have always been paramount and she made that very clear when I was a child.

I do try to be compassionate I really do because as I say her childhood was bad to the extreme.but as other pp have posted her parenting has not been good enough and just to sit with that for a while does make me feel a but better and less confused and enables some separation from her which does help.

Thank you for the book recommendation I will have a look for it.

I know I will be expected to say something publicly at the funeral and lately I've been lying in bed at night thinking of what good qualities I can talk about. I can talk about her crafting. Also fhat her and dad enjoyed being grandparents especially when our children were young. And the rest I am going to have to make up / get from.generic / Internet funeral speeches.

When we talk about post death I think I honestly will feel free. Free of feeling a disappointment, free of hoping that things can ever get better and free of having to put on a front when I see her that everything is normal and is okay.

It's not your fault that she was a terrible mother, and she isn't your responsibility. You don't have to say anything at her funeral - you can excuse yourself, you can "not find the words". She won't be there. You don't have to find compassion for her either, if that isn't what you need.

I wish you peace.

Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 22:40

Mummyissues · 04/11/2024 22:09

It's not your fault that she was a terrible mother, and she isn't your responsibility. You don't have to say anything at her funeral - you can excuse yourself, you can "not find the words". She won't be there. You don't have to find compassion for her either, if that isn't what you need.

I wish you peace.

Thank you xx

OP posts:
Spoonweather · 04/11/2024 22:41

Caswallonthefox · 04/11/2024 21:39

I've just kinda blanked her out of my life. To the point where I'm surprised how long she's been dead.
My mental health has been shit for most of my life but since she's no longer in it it's better. She was the biggest reason I self harmed. Now I dont. Haven't since the day I found out she died.
The biggest emotion, aside from happiness, has been relief.

So glad you feel relief xx

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