Mum is dying and I've only recently realised she js a narcissist

[Spoonweather]

I know the advice will be to get some psychotherapy and counselling and I will do but this past few months I've realised my mum is a narcissist and it is very tough.

Had a difficult childhood with a fair amount of emotional neglect from mum in particular, made to feel that I was never enough, there was no interest at all in me on a personal level only what she could use to show off about me (was often told by other people that she had been talking about my achievements etc). Felt very lonely and would burst into tears if adult teachers tor example showed any personal interest in me as didn't have that at home. Constant feeling of not meeting approval, always taking others sides over mine. Not enough medication for my chronic health condition kept in house. Disappointed I didn't go to oxbridge and become a doctor etc.

Have always been a bit vulnerable because all of the above, am a major people pleaser really wanted love etc. I feel sadness I didn't have the sort of relationship so many others have with their parents. If I call home even now - not v often - am told I should have emailed instead. Constantly feeling I should back off and mum has more important things to do. Dad is gentle soul but always under mum's authority. He did show some love to me when growing up.

A conversation with a good friend a month or so ago flagged up that perhaps mum is a kind of narcissist. I've been thinking about and researching this ever since and there are many ways in which mum fits the profile of a narcissist.

Mum now has parkinsons is 14 years or so in and is now becoming quite unwell. Obviously we don't have the sort of close relationship where I go and see her often or call. She has never wanted one to one time with me or to go anywhere together.

Mum is now physically very weak but is the same way towards me she has always been

Has anyone else been in this situation? I have accepted the relationship has never been and would never be what I would want. Her passing away won't make a huge difference to my life as we have never been close. But it still feels so so strange. I feel sad for the girl who wanted a mum but has never had one. I feel that really my whole life when I look back has just been one big search for love. Thankfully I have found this with my own family but this situation with mum will always hurt I think in her life and her death. Xx

This is so true.

I've always had a very difficult relationship with my mum, for reasons very similar to what you've written in your post OP. My mum is also terminally ill.

I had been angry all my life but after the diagnosis I decided to make peace. I'll be the one who cares for her (even though, at times, it's felt like she hasn't cared for me too much!) when the time comes - mostly because I need to do it for ME. It'll feel better for me to show her love and I'll know I did absolutely everything I could in the end.

Maybe you might feel similar? I think this poster is right - easier to live on knowing maybe you were too kind, rather than with resentment/anger/regret

I think your mother is an incredibly damaged person. Sadly she passed her damage on rather than tried to get help to become a better person.
But she was likely beyond help. Narcissists are rarely able to engage with therapy so that might well have been a waste of time.
Times were different in the 80s too and seeking help wasn't so accepted or available.
I'm not making excuses for her at all. Or you dad who is her enabler.
I just found it helpful to try to understand how the other person became as they are but not everyone does.
You've had some good books recommended but I think a therapist might help too. But they really need to be a narcissist specialist or they won't be able to help you.

Sounds quite similar to my upbringing. I'm pretty sure my mum had high functioning autism plus narcissistic personality traits. My Dad is quite sweet but weak and always completely under her power. He will freely admit when he knows something is a bad idea but he's just going along with it anyway to avoid any 'trouble'. I had a lot of therapy when I was younger and distanced myself emotionally and physically from them as I found they weren't good for my mental health. They have been more involved since grandchildren arrived but I still try to avoid much 1:1.

My mum's now becoming quite frail and I think has the start of dementia. It's hard but I'm helping them out as a 'duty' and keeping myself emotionally distanced as possible. I long ago gave up on any unconditional love or support from that direction. It's hard and I've been through a range of emotions but therapy has helped. People commenting about 'armchair diagnoses' don't have a clue I'm afraid unless they grew up with this type of parent. They are never bad enough to get social services or psychiatrist involved so they are not going to get a 'proper' diagnosis but as a child with a parent like this it is incredibly helpful to be able to attribute their awful behaviour to something and learn to come to terms with it. I'm still a people pleaser but I couldn't care less what SHE thinks and that's freeing.

Take a look at the stately homes thread you'll find people on there like you. People with loving, emotionally available parents just cannot possibly understand.

This resonates with me completely. So difficult for others to understand. It's really hard because actually one of mum's favourite phrases is she did her best. At face value she may have given her own childhood which was awful but in real terms it wasnt so great. I've grown up feeling lonely, vulnerable, not confident etc. Not having the support of a loving family has been very tough. Thanks for all of your replies xx

My mum's mum has always been a horrible person, I won't going in to detail.
My nan was poorly and supposedly nearing the end (another story!) and my mum was very much " I don't know if I will grieve for her or the relationship I never had with her" my mum struggled with it. My mum died last year and my nan is still going - with dementia and Parkinson's and I am grateful that my mum never had to deal with the guilt of not being as upset as she would be of the had a good relationship and the complications that come with this
I feel for you and sorry you are going through this.

@Bfmamma sorry to hear about your mum xx

I went through this with my dad 13 years ago. I cut him off and he died.

13 years later I'm having EMDR, sobbing my heart out each week because I can't go back and undo my decision.

My advice to anyone in this situation would be to think very carefully about how you want to leave things with your parent, because there are no second chances.

Oh wow that must be so difficult for you I'm so sorry. You must have had your reasons though to cut him off. I decided a long time I wouldn't cut off bug that I won't, as has been said above, set myself on fire to keep others warm. I think I would feel as you have felt. But think how much freer you would feel if you could forgive yourself? You deserve to xx

I feel like this about my Dad. He wasn’t a nice person growing up so I don’t care now. Once I’m done that’s it.

I respect you for being true to yourself x

Similar situation here so I have a lot of sympathy. DM has never liked me (probably BPD), adored my sibling. I've never felt good enough or likeable and it's massively impacted my self-esteem.

I'm quite detached from her, although now she has dementia so I organise her care home, finances etc, so she's looked after and so I've done the right thing, there won't be another chance.

But when I phoned midweek I overheard her say something unpleasant about me to a carer and it's knocked me back into a very dark place. She's blaming me for everything, as always, and it's hurt so much to realise that she'll never say that I wasn't that bad. I don't know how to get over that. Large hug.

@kitteninabasket your reaction is completely understandable and I hope that you find peace.

Look into Compassionate Enquiry and somatic therapies, spending lots of time in nature is also excellent for healing such chore wounds.
You are still angry because the wound has not healed, it needs your gentle attention to heal it.

The good news is, you CAN heal, a little more each day, until one day, you will be amazed at the progress you’ve made.

Look upon your mother as simply the vehicle by which you entered this world, try not to hold her to standards you wouldn’t hold others up to. She is a fallible and very flawed human being, much like the rest of us.

I know the feeling must sometimes feel like an abandoned infant (emotionally abandoned and left to suffer alone with a child’s natural fears and anxieties when left alone). In societies where the children are never left alone, anxiety and depression are virtually unheard of, their brains never became wired for it!

We can undo that wiring, neuro-plasticity makes that possible.

Those feelings are now out of time, you now as an adult can do for yourself everything a mother would - your survival is no longer dependent on her.
However, the shoe may be on the other foot soon, and when that time comes, your magnanimity may be an enormous help in your healing process.

Besides, our true parent isn’t a human being, and never ever fails us, and I thank God sincerely for that. You might find it helpful to turn to gratitude and prayer - does wonders, sometimes miracles in fact.

I found your post very helpful 5thworld thank you x

We can undo that wiring, neuro-plasticity makes that possible.

I wish that was wholly true. It's true up a point, but beyond that point some damage / neglect is irreparable. If you are neglected so far that you do not acquire language by age 7-10, you never will; if abuse is too severe it can be too late to grow into an integrated adult by the age of 3.

I realise these situations are a considerable way into the abuse/neglect spectrum but full re-wiring is not always possible and sometimes I wish that people would acknowledge that.

Yes I tend to agree with this.

When I was growing up I was fed (not great food, they were not well off when I was young), but still, fed. I had clothes to wear. I had private music lessons once a week, we went abroad most years in the summer holidays. My mum made clothes for me regularly when I was young.

Mum told me how clever she was and how much better I had it than she had it when she was growing up, which was probably true as her childhood wasn't good at all. Yet... I was put to bed extremely early (7pm), I never ever did anything 'nice' just with my mum. She never wanted to talk to me after school, never did things with me, never opened up. I knew from an early age that she wasn't going to engage with me and she didn't want to and didn't care. She has never wanted to be close to me, has never shown any real interest, has always described me as a 'puzzle and a mystery' but has never taken the time to have a relationship. Has always described me in negative terms really unless showing off to other people about the things I have achieved.

On the surface, things were normal (fed and clothed, middle class in outlook) so even I assumed this must be the normal way to grow up. It was only later, at school with kind teachers who asked me questions, or seeing my friends with their mums and observing that closeness, friends who actually did things with their mums and had a bond, that over time it very very slowly dawned on me that things were not right. But even then, I assumed it was my fault because my mum was always confirming to me that I had it better than she did, that she was so clever, etc. Also I was a puzzle, so it must be me that was the problem? etc. My dad just stood by my mum on everything.

Yes she was wounded by her childhood but she has left me with all I can describe as an empty hole inside, empty from the family I should have had and will never have, I can fill that hole with my own family but I will never have a mother in the typical way and so that particular hole can never be filled.

Yes I can love myself and I do now have a relationship with a faith and God. Which is incredible and I would recommend it. But I might as well be an orphan because there is noone there to rely on and my parents do not really care about me one way or the other, only if it makes them look good.

I can bolster myself up, I can practise self-care, I am learning to be kinder to myself, I can eat well and exercise, I can spend time with friends, I can be more patient with myself. I am trying to be the mother to myself that I always needed but to be honest I feel that I am always on the backfoot because I never had what so many people take for granted. So I'm not sure, either, whether this can ever be wholly righted. Would love to believe that it can!

My heart breaks for you. Such deep all consuming life long pain. It is hard to forgive or be patient with someone who has done this. Especially when you were little and fragile, it’s hard to conceive a mother being this way. I can only really assume mental ill health of some description.

I think I too have accepted that I will probably always weep about this, when something reminds me, when I’m in a tough situation, or ill. Even just elderly ladies being kind to me can sometimes cause a heavy wave of longing, feeling lost, abandoned, vulnerable, anxious, anguish, an acute almost paralysing fear of what living life without a supportive family will feel like.

Let yourself cry bitter tears when necessary, pour it all out.

Then remind yourself what an incredible job you’ve done supporting yourself all these years without falling into complete ruin, as some children who have grown up in a barren emotional wasteland do. You’ve done it without her, you’ve proven that already. It a fact. And you will be in safe loving caring hands with yourself in the future. You can also do a much better job than she is capable of or can imagine!

Give up on her love and approval, if you were not related, would she be someone’s opinion, guidance or affection that you want? Truly ask yourself that.

Being affective ly motherless will have given you super powers, independence, resilience, compassion for yourself and others. Carrying an open wound can sometimes make for nicer people, they know what real suffering from birth is.

The wound doesn’t have to be open much longer, she need not be permitted this level of power over you.

Assist when you can, I believe these types of mothers warrant pity and compassion, it can’t be easy being a virtual emotional cripple. Life must be nearly impossible living in that condition.

Make a new family, choose kind and loving friends. Get a puppy.

As I've said earlier, I've the same scenario with my mother, though I'm not in touch with my parents now.

I try to put all the self-care, mothering replacement things in but still feel robbed occasionally.

Then again everyone has something that they are dealing with and when I stand back I'd rather deal with what I'm dealing with, iykwim. At least I know the problem well.

Thank you for you kindness @Spoonweather and @user14941775. For a number of reasons I didn't feel I was allowed to grieve like I needed to at the time and pushed everything down, but since I started processing his death in EMDR I've been crying a lot. It almost feels like I'm grieving for the first time and all the pain I felt before it was the pain of holding it in.

@Spoonweather do you feel love for your mother? I always felt love for my dad despite his unpredictable behaviour when I was younger, but I haven't felt love for my mother since I was a small child. Similar to yours, she had no interest in me unless I could fulfil one of her needs, and ignored me the rest of the time.

I was always so surprised when friends talked about what they'd done with their mum, or when I visited a friend's house and their mum engaged with us. My dad did all of the parenting on top of working full time, while she never worked and just did her own thing. Later in life I wondered if the love would come but it didn't. The mother-shaped hole is very painful.

The dynamics of your upbringing sounds similar to my friend's. Her mum did all the surface level stuff and kept up appearances, but was emotionally absent and at times abusive and extremely cruel. Her dad was very passive (or 'weak' in my friend's words) and just went along with whatever his wife said.

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress

We can undo that wiring, neuro-plasticity makes that possible.
I wish that was wholly true. It's true up a point, but beyond that point some damage / neglect is irreparable. If you are neglected so far that you do not acquire language by age 7-10, you never will; if abuse is too severe it can be too late to grow into an integrated adult by the age of 3.
I realise these situations are a considerable way into the abuse/neglect spectrum but full re-wiring is not always possible and sometimes I wish that people would acknowledge that.

Genie, the so-called 'feral child' is a very sad example of this.

Thank you that's so kind and yes there has been lifelong pain and loneliness. I honestly think it's only been the last year or so that all of these realisations have taken place and pennies have been dropping, eg the narcissist suggestion and other things like realising I have always been on my own and that my lifelong search for love from relationships and other parts of the family have come from having this emptiness inside.

So now my mum has become very unwell it's just typical timing that I'm coming to terms with everything while the end is near. Just very tough to deal with all at once and trying to be caring for mum when I do see her.

Yes I agree about the open wound, so many of us have been 'broken open' by similar and hopefully it has allowed us to be more empathic with others xx

I felt love for mum when I was very young and remember being very upset at the age of six when, ironically, I realised she was going to die one day. But it must have fizzled out over time and no I don't remember feeling much towards either of my parents from the early teens onwards.

So now my mum has become very unwell it's just typical timing that I'm coming to terms with everything while the end is near. Just very tough to deal with all at once and trying to be caring for mum when I do see her.

I asked ChatGPT about this recently as I had no idea what to put into a search engine or where to start in terms of finding information on it. The response was actually really helpful for me. I'll paste it here in case it's also helpful for you:

'When faced with a loved one's impending death, it's common to reflect on past experiences, which can complicate how you wish to communicate your feelings. Here are some key points that may resonate with your experience:

Complex Emotions: Discovering a parent is terminally ill can trigger a mix of emotions, including regret, fear, and sadness. Many people find themselves reflecting on their past, particularly the difficult memories, which can overshadow the positive ones. This can create a sense of paralysis when trying to engage meaningfully during their final days

Fear of Conflict: In situations where past interactions have been fraught with tension or anger, the fear of reigniting those emotions can lead to withdrawal. You might have felt that expressing your feelings could lead to conflict or discomfort, making it harder to articulate your thoughts and emotions

Lack of Closure: The sudden realization that time is limited can evoke feelings of urgency, leading to a sense of loss over missed opportunities for communication. This can be particularly painful if you feel you needed to discuss unresolved issues but were unsure how to approach them

Desire for Connection: Wanting to discuss unresolved issues, even if it seems inappropriate, speaks to a deep desire for connection and understanding. The pressure of such moments can lead to emotional overwhelm, where the need for closure collides with the realities of the situation.'

Thank you @kitteninabasket and sorry for your grief. Xx

@5thworld that resonates about strangers' kindness making you emotional thanks for posting xx

You are carrying a heavy burden right now, has your partner helped to fill the hole a bit at times? Do you think your mother’s poor job at parenting has affected your partner selection.

It certainly has mine, I think my picker is mostly broken. I used to feel broken. I’ve learned that I am not what happened to me, I’ve had a tough time and I need to treat myself with kid gloves and shower myself with love.
At least she didn’t break my ability to love, that’s very important.

My mum is less than ideal. I have made my peace with the situation - you get what you're given and she's the only mum I'm going to get. I'm probably not the daughter she wanted either! I try not to replay her playbook.
Now she's elderly I feel better if I feel sorry for her, rather than resentment. I choose.
Wishing you strength OP.

Thanks for posting yes my picker is not great. In the past I've been drawn to two kinds of men - narcissists who I've adored and have had to work hard to keep things going and to gain their affection (sound familiar?) And the other kind that I've had the long term relationships with have been nerdy intelligent guys who have been hard workers who have loved me passionately and have looked after me very well. I guess you could say I'm currently married to one of the second group... not that I'm keen on categorising people but you know what I mean. My dh is a very practical person I think he thinks I'm super emotional and I definitely am. He thinks my mum has been shocking tbh and that there is something wrong with her. He has said before that without our children my parents wouldn't really see me at all which is an astute observation.

I'm grateful to be able to share these feelings on mumsnet but it's horrible to hear that so many others have gone through this. I stand with all of you you are all amazing Xx

So now my mum has become very unwell it's just typical timing that I'm coming to terms with everything while the end is near

As flippin' ChatGthingie said it might well not be a coincidence, lovely.

Also, how odd ... exactly the same experience with men and types.