Mum is dying and I've only recently realised she js a narcissist

[Spoonweather]

I know the advice will be to get some psychotherapy and counselling and I will do but this past few months I've realised my mum is a narcissist and it is very tough.

Had a difficult childhood with a fair amount of emotional neglect from mum in particular, made to feel that I was never enough, there was no interest at all in me on a personal level only what she could use to show off about me (was often told by other people that she had been talking about my achievements etc). Felt very lonely and would burst into tears if adult teachers tor example showed any personal interest in me as didn't have that at home. Constant feeling of not meeting approval, always taking others sides over mine. Not enough medication for my chronic health condition kept in house. Disappointed I didn't go to oxbridge and become a doctor etc.

Have always been a bit vulnerable because all of the above, am a major people pleaser really wanted love etc. I feel sadness I didn't have the sort of relationship so many others have with their parents. If I call home even now - not v often - am told I should have emailed instead. Constantly feeling I should back off and mum has more important things to do. Dad is gentle soul but always under mum's authority. He did show some love to me when growing up.

A conversation with a good friend a month or so ago flagged up that perhaps mum is a kind of narcissist. I've been thinking about and researching this ever since and there are many ways in which mum fits the profile of a narcissist.

Mum now has parkinsons is 14 years or so in and is now becoming quite unwell. Obviously we don't have the sort of close relationship where I go and see her often or call. She has never wanted one to one time with me or to go anywhere together.

Mum is now physically very weak but is the same way towards me she has always been

Has anyone else been in this situation? I have accepted the relationship has never been and would never be what I would want. Her passing away won't make a huge difference to my life as we have never been close. But it still feels so so strange. I feel sad for the girl who wanted a mum but has never had one. I feel that really my whole life when I look back has just been one big search for love. Thankfully I have found this with my own family but this situation with mum will always hurt I think in her life and her death. Xx

Thank you and I absolutely agree with all of your points.

Re being loving now, I wouldn't offer to move her in to our house if something happened to my dad tomorrow, there would have to be some other caring arrangements as that would be too much for me. However I am really aware of the fact I don't want to live with any regrets or be annoyed with myself in any way shape or form in the future. So as per Ina Garten's story above, I will be kind and loving when I do see them because that makes me feel better and doesn't make life harder for mum. But I probably won't be making more regular trips with the decline.

OP you could be describing my mother and my childhood, except she had a different neurological disease and she is already dead. So much of what you wrote resonates with me. Like you, I was promiscuous as a young woman because I had low self esteem and was searching for love. I never heard the word narcissist, but when I was in my 20s I realised she would never be the parent I wanted her to be and I went lc.

When she died, I felt a huge sense of relief that the difficult relationship was over. I wasn't sad. After she died, I was angry all the time. That was my experience of grief. Anger about her cruelty towards me. Anger (again) that she was never the parent that I wanted and needed her to be.

That was a few years ago now and that anger has subsided. I have a happy life and a fabulous dd. I don't have any more advice than what has already been said, but am sending solidarity.

I don't have a ton to add OP but in response to a few people saying what does it matter now, why do you need a label etc, I just want to say I understand that need to make sense of your childhood. When a label or way of describing a set of previously inexplicable behaviours comes up, of course you will look into it and when it seems to fit, it's quite incredible because suddenly things make more sense. When you grow up with someone behaving in this way with absolutely no explanation, it makes you always try to work out why. My mum shows some narcissistic traits but actually lately I think she has undiagnosed BPD. The way she responds to things really really fits in every way. Someone could say what does it matter, that my relationship with her is what it is, but actually I want to try and understand why it's that way too.

I also recognise the sadness in fully realising that you don't and won't ever have a good relationship with your mother. It's a tough place to be.

Thank you for this. I do feel angry already tbh and have angry tears in my low moments. She told me many times she didn't want children really but had them for my dad. She said it was just about worth all of the effort (but in a way that you knew she didn't really think it was). Mum genuinely believes that her life would have been much better and she would have been more successful etc without us. Often she will ask me why my children are so lovely and great eg how could I have possibly had great children? All of these backhanded comments and nasty asides make me angry now when I think about them. So I can understand the anger. And also the relief when the end comes.

Is it your mother who is the narcissist? She is dying and you are focussed on things that happened to you. You both have equally rich and complex inner lives. We all do. We’re all flawed. What you have now is certainty that your mother won’t be around for long and a choice as to how you interact with her in that time. You have all the power here. But you’re focussed on how you felt when you were younger, how you are treated now and how you’ll feel at your mother’s funeral.

I agree we are all flawed.

Yes I think it is that I obviously knew about the concept of narcissism but it took someone who knew mum to offer it quietly as a possible explanation for such extreme behaviours. It does help tbh thinking there could be a structural mental cause for the behaviour rather than just you are unlovable! For sure.

Yes the finality of a mother's death does open up stuff that's very painful to realise and when she's gone be prepared for it to be very confusing.

I get you.

There is a point in posting because mortality brings alot of questions especially when it's a mother who is not very maternal or interested.

Good luck op.

Xx

My dad was not a nice man. He died very unexpectedly and all I felt was relief and then guilty that i felt like that. What has been the most surprising and difficult thing about it is that my mum who i always felt sorry for, turns out to be very similar to my dad, which explains how she stayed married to him for 40 years. His appalling behaviour was so bad it had hidden how bad she was. I thought she only did the unkind things she did to please my dad and not set him off, yet 18 years after his death she's just like him. Both parents had dreadful upbringings which explains a lot about how they are, but being parented by them was very difficult. You have to find a way to accept it and try really hard not to repeat the behaviours in your own life.

It's a power-imbalanced relationship where the OP is reflecting on how she was treated.

That must be very tough @TinyGingerCat Must be so disappointing for you. Xx

Thanks @MovingCrib this is why I wouldn't ever bring these feelings up on real life to anyone apart from my husband- a lot of people cannot understand feeling like this about a dying mother but these are real feelings about a very difficult situation.

I'm sorry for what's going on. You should read Emotionally Immature Parents and see if any of it resonates - it really helped me come to terms with who my dad is. Take care.

It was/is disappointing but I've accepted it (which wasn't easy). I want to give you some hope - you are not the only person who has experienced this and you can get to a place of acceptance (in my case with a great therapist) I have a lovely life with a great family and fab friends. Good luck xx

Sorry to read your post @Spoonweather Sounds tough.
I'm not suggesting you 'be kind' but it might help to research why people develop narcissistic traits (if you haven't already).
She certainly sounds like she has some but they likely developed due to her own upbringing. I'm not trying to make excuses for her behaviour which sounds pretty awful but it may help you to understand why she developed the way she did (you may already have done this).
You may also find talking to a therapist who specialises in recovery from narcissistic abuse helps. They are not easy to find but there are people out there. Lots of therapists list it as one of their areas of expertise when they really know nothing about it.

Yes it’s like you’ve suddenly had an epiphany/eureka moment, it’s very hard on your body/brain and hard not to sometimes dwell and get into a bit of a spiral. You may have mentioned counselling/ speaking to someone , I found it helpful , just having an hour to talk at someone and being able to get my jumbled thoughts out.

Was not at all surprised to read that your grandmother was abusive to your mother. She, like your mother, had a choice here re their child and chose to inflict the same old that was done to them. Toxic dysfunction often goes down the generations but thankfully that cycle has stopped with you as you have chosen not to treat your children in the ways you were treated.

I would urge you to see a therapist because you have indeed received the Special Training adult children of narcissists get. People pleasing is a problem and often comes about from wanting to parent please an otherwise difficult or emotionally unavailable parent/s. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and need a willing enabler to help them; that was your dad. He has also failed you abjectly by failing to protect you from his wife's excesses of behaviour.

You may also want to read Out of the Fog and the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website. Reading and or posting on the current "Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages could help you as well.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you so much for posting, I have admired your posts on other threads for some time! You have fabulous insight.

Yes my dad is most certainly the enabler but even he is waking up a little from the fog now, given he is currently being kept in the home as the carer and rarely let out by my mother (to see us and his grandchildren, for example). He has spoken to his own consultant separately about this, long story.

People pleasing and particularly being around the familiarity of narcissists are patterns I can notice in my own life now looking back. Being in the dynamic of giving and looking up to are patterns in my past. Looking up to people in friendships, etc, forging friendships with stronger more confident women (I have always had issues with my confidence unsurprisingly).

I've had therapy about other things before (where we did touch on my relationship with my mother) but I think I do need to start looking into more therapy specifically about the relationship with my mother to lighten the load. I will do this.

Thank you x

Ps my compassion for my mother is based on the fact she did have a very very very difficult childhood with lots of physical (beatings) abuse, little love, neglect by both her own mother and then her stepmother. So she had it very tough indeed. But sadly never got any help herself and wasn't able to turn things around as a mother herself. I always encouraged her to get therapy, even going back to the 1980s, but mum never wanted to. I so wish she had.

I get why it matters, OP. Because it helps you make sense of your life, of how she was as your mother and most of all that it was her not you.

It doesn’t surprise me that now she’s nearing her end you’re re-evaluating how your life has been with her as your mother.

A family member of mine had a similar revelation about narcissism- when she learned about it she was able to make sense of how her abusive ex had treated her and it helped her regain her sense of self-worth because really, really it was him who had been wrong and not her, despite all the gaslighting and put downs and mental cruelty she had endured.

Knowledge is power. Heal well, xx

You're very welcome.

I think your friend was correct.

She sees you as an extension of her and you all are all bit part players with she being at the centre of her own universe. Many narcissists are not diagnosed formally and that is also because they think there is nothing wrong with them so they do not generally do very well in therapy either. But the damage they bring upon their many victims is so very real.

Do also consider reading "Will I ever be good enough?" by Karyl McBride.

As I wrote before your mother (and her mother) had a choice when it came to you and she chose to inflict onto you what was basically done to her. Her best (as well as your dad's best here) was not good enough. She did not have to repeat the same old, she had a choice back then and I note you have not repeated this abuse with your own children. She never wanted or sought to receive the necessary help.

Give compassion to yourself rather than your mother; do not set yourself on fire to keep someone like she and your dad warm.

This is exactly it, everything makes more sense if you open yourself up to the possibility that my mother is a narcissist. That is why my conversation with my friend (who knows my mum) was so helpful. It helps to frame the situation and make it easier to understand and also separates us and our issues.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you so much, I agree, my mum had the opportunity to change things around but chose not to. Agree that her and dad's best were not good enough. I will give what I can to them but I will not do any more than that. xx

Bit harsh. Some mothers really can be very toxic and leave lasting damage on us. It’s hard to understand the extent of it when you haven’t experienced it yourself. I don’t think OP comes off as narcissistic at all. It’s only natural to reflect on our upbringing and feelings when presented with having to face them head on- in the context of an upcoming death and close of a difficult relationship.

Reading this thread with interest as I don't know what will happen if/when mine goes before me. It definitely helped me to have some sort of label as to why she behaved/behaves the way she did and still does. I think only having really been through this type of abuse gives you understanding of the term as a pp said.

As well as all the pretense I experienced (i.e. pretending to care about me mostly in front of other people), it's so shocking that an individual would behave like all of this towards anyone, let alone their own child that it's incredibly difficult to comprehend and make sense of. The scars are held deeply and it takes lots of time to unpick all this and heal. With regard to therapists, mine had experience of abuse which is why she is so good. I have also come across some, where it was clear they had absolutely no idea what I was talking about (and didn't stay).

@BarkLife That instantly took me back. That is my mum to a tee. I can think of hundreds of examples like this.

If mine goes I don't know how I will feel. I hope I don't fall apart but we have been NC for years so I feel and hope I have done the majority of the grieving already. X