Are most men shit or is it just how Mumsnet portrays them?

[loveyoutothemoon]

Is Mumsnet enough to put you off men for life? All you see on here is cheating men. Think I'm just damaged from an abusive marriage!

Is it ‘throwing roses’ to say that there are men who do their fair share around the house/with the children, @DrizzleMySwizzle? If we can enumerate all the ways that various men fail to do their share, why is it wrong to point out that there are men who aren’t failing? Are we only allowed to vilify all men?

I am married to a man who does way more than his share, due to the necessity to care for me, and we have raised three young men who all muck in around the house - and without seeing it as ‘helping’ their partners, too. I am proud of them, and refuse to feel ashamed of that, or to pretend they don’t exist, in order to fit the ‘all men are bastards’ beliefs.

yes, it is throwing roses when someone says 'my husband did the dishes' 'my husband bought me a mars bar' to prove what a star he is.

I totally agree with you, however as you can see from some of the replies here it doesn’t fit the MN narrative of “all men are awful”.

I’m sure someone could post that their husband single handedly runs the whole household, does all childcare and cured homeless and diseases in his spare time and there’d still be someone trying to pick faults.

I always think of the number of men who can walk out of their children's lives after a relationship break up, without so much as a backward glance, to see how shit men can be. It's depressingly common, as we all know. Do women do this too? Yes, sometimes. But it's far rarer than in the case of men.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but a lot of men are capable of treating their female partners quite differently than the rest of the people in their lives.

But the thing is sometimes it IS all of those little things that make a relationship so lovely and make someone a truly good partner. My husband has done some amazing big things for me throughout our relationship, some big expensive and extravagant things which of course I do appreciate. But it’s the little things he does that make him a great husband to me and that make him a good man and partner in life.

Sometimes Mumsnet resembles a female incel forum.

Maybe they are just being honest, @DrizzleMySwizzle - why does there have to be anything more to it?

And why is it OK to enumerate men’s faults, but not to do the opposite?

Yes, I suppose we all know different people and have different experiences. I can't say the men I know are stubborn and passive nor lacking in creativity. Also, I agree that I wouldn't want to marry my male friends, but that's simply because they're mates. I get what I need from them in terms of friendship but don't see them as potential husbands. I also wouldn't want to marry the vast majority of my female friends (if I were that way inclined). I know three or four couples where the men are doing the majority of the housework, despite also working full time so I don't think men are always useless in the home.
However, I agree that women can be the most wonderful friends. I'm lucky to have some very close female friends and I really value them. If I was having an emotional crisis and literally wanted to cry on someone's shoulder, I think I'd go to one of my female friends.

we split the work very evenly. having an egalitarian household is something we value and want to model for our child.

He took my school run and gave up 90 minutes of sleep. He does his share, this was extra.

him doing the dishes every day typically takes longer than homework help, though not always. He has taken on more than his share because my job is “harder”. I got the better end of the deal by far. I like doing algebra and hate doing dishes.

I think a lot of men are just 'ok'. Many women are also just 'ok'. What you hope is that your 'just ok' will align with someone else's - so you might meet a man who's a bit rubbish but financially he's really on it, whilst you like taking control of life but you are pants at anything financial. Together you are 'ok' and this is where a lot of relationships are. Some men are terrific. Some women are. I have yet to meet one of the terrific men, but I know they are out there and devoutly hope that my sons are in that number.

I thought I had married a good one. Imo you don’t really know someone until you divorce them. Ive so many good friends who are good women who have found the same.

I’m not sure I know more than 2 genuinely good men irl.

Men are just people. Some are lovely, some are awful, and some are somewhere in the middle.

Exactly the same as applies to women.🙂

My sons are much better partners than their father was so there's hope for the future.

I also think men who had decent fathers are strongly likely to be decent boyfriends/husbands. But older guys with shit dads growing up in an era where men still had the upper hand are likely to feel entitled. It's not inevitable but there is a strong chance.

Also it doesn't help that men are judged less harshly for having an affair or abandoning their children.

I'm male, and honestly I think most men are a bit shit.

Looking at mine and DPs friends, there's the obvious absolute twats. The ones that had affairs, the one who strangled DPs best friend, the one who completely stopped seeing the kids after they divorced, the crossdresser who wouldn't let his wife out without him.

And then there's the "good" ones. The ones who seem like they really love their partners and kids, but you have a BBQ round there's and you notice that it's never them running round after the kids, or cleaning up. Unless it involves meat or beer, it's their wife's job.

I'm not perfect, I'm naturally lazy and I'm prepared to live at a lower standard than DP is, so there are some jobs I'd never do without prompting. And I can be thoughtless, I make plans sometimes without checking whether the kids need to be somewhere etc.

But we do an equal amount of housework and DIY, even if the jobs themselves are different. I've always been 50/50 on parenting with her, and done far more of the "kid is spewing, so one of us has to stay home from work" days. I plan holidays, days out, meals for the week.

I attribute most of this to Mumsnet. I grew up with Mum being the default parent, and probably would have carried some of that with me had I not found this place when DD was 3 months old. Honestly I think all new fathers should have to spend a couple of hours a week reading Mumsnet threads.

I don't know. My husband is really great - a good dad, good husband, good person but I do not think that is shocking because I know plenty of men like that. My brothers and my father are good people although one of my brothers was pretty awful when he was younger but he developed like every person. I have male friends who are perfectly good people. I also know many male arseholes. The thing is the exact same thing applies to women!

I have two sons who are really decent people and an OH who is too. There are lots of crap men, but not in my direct experience.

It might be that the majority of men are bad, but people posting on MN are a self-selecting group who are in general here to post about their problems, so you really can't come to any conclusions.

I dated a variety of men from when I was 16 to when I was 48 and failed to find an honest one. It wasn't through lack of trying.

Men I met through work or hobbies or through friends. Professional men, a tradesman, older, the same age. one younger.

Then I gave up.

There are decent men out there of course, but a lot of spineless and dishonest men too. I have a son and I do my best to raise him to be decent, kind and honest. I hope he has higher standards.

You need to remember that the newspapers which started up to print only good news rapidly went out of business, People aren't interested in good news, only sordid horror stories about someone else's misfortune.

Same on MN, you only read the bad news stories because no-one writes the good news ones. So, statistically, it's a skewed sample.

He did the school run for his own child. Isn't that a minimum a person should be capable of doing? Washing dishes (presumably after you cooked) when another parent is busy helping with homework is not really praiseworthy either.
Sorry I don't mean to be a downer but no woman, even the one with a full time , demanding job would be appreciated for those things.

You’re making a lot of assumptions there though, everyone organises their lives differently. Maybe DH works night shifts and doesn’t get into bed until 6am and so would only have an hours sleep or none at all before doing the school run, hence why that might typically be mum’s job and maybe dad then does pick up instead for example. So when he’s forfeiting that sleep to do the extra of course that should be appreciated and acknowledged.

You’re assuming this poster cooked the meal, maybe they didn’t. Maybe they take turns doing the dishes and it wasn’t his turn but he’s done the extra, or maybe the dishes are always this poster’s job while the cooking is always her husband’s job.

Honestly maybe you just have a shit partner because I know my husband would and does thank me and appreciates me for every little thing I do and I him. We say thank you when we help each other our, we acknowledge that we don’t always have 50/50 to give and that some days its more like 70/30 either way, we appreciate and thank each other for picking up the extra and supporting each other through those things. That’s literally the bare minimum really of being in a healthy and loving partnership, if you’re in a relationship where your efforts aren’t appreciated then that’s sad for you, but it’s not the usual for everyone, some of us do have those supportive and loving partners and so thanking each other when it’s deserved is totally normal and healthy.

Exactly

It's a mumsnet thing. I think in general men are no worse than women. In my younger days I was bullied at school and again at work. I worked in a female office and they were awful. I tend to be of a 'watch your bsck' view of women.

I tend to agree. There are plenty of dreadful, toxic women out there. Many of whom treat men abysmally. I'm in no way saying that there aren't plenty of awful men out there - of course there are - but on the balance of probabilities, awful women must make up a significant portion of MNetters.