DH and I are foul to one another

[tiredsince2020]

I don’t know if anyone else experiences this, but far from being the best version of myself around DH I become irritable, snappy, defensive, sarcastic and passive aggressive, and I feel he’s much the same to me.

We have a lot of pressures on us as a family. We have two very young children (young toddler and preschool stage), I work three days a week, DH is full time but because his job does take him away sometimes and is a long commute he isn’t around much during the week. I feel he isn’t very supportive. For example yesterday I took both children out of the house in the morning to a church event, when I came home the house was still a tip. I didn’t expect a deep clean or anything but just a quick tidy of toys would have been good. I feel all the house stuff falls on me and it’s impossible to keep on top of. As a result the state of the house is a factor in everyone’s stress levels. But no sooner is it immaculate and gleaming than it is trashed.

I don’t feel he’s very supportive with the children - he does love them, but he’s happy to leave the kind of day to day mechanics to me and if we ever disagree on something it often doesn’t get addressed properly, meaning it just kind of festers.

I am sure there’s things he isn’t happy about with me too. But it comes out in these horrible ways. I know people will say to talk it out but I am not sure how. Mostly it I try to talk to him about something serious it ends up being my fault somehow or he just dismisses it.

I know I’ve painted him in a bad light here and honestly I was ready to tell him I wanted to end the marriage yesterday, and that might still happen but I really, really don’t want it to. Not for me but the children.

Can you put the kids in childcare for the two work days where you’re at home?
Dedicate one full day to giving the house a good clean and tidy and the other day to have a day to yourself.
Then on the weekend, you have one family day together (it doesn’t have to mean a day out every week, just a full day where you’re together and present) and one day where you take the kids and let him have his day off?

It is not abusing your kids to not get along with your partner. OP can't help that her husband is a dick so stop victim blaming.

I kind of agree with this, but best not to talk about DH "helping" as it implies it's OP's job and he's doing her a favour if he joins in

Quite honestly my brother in law is the only man I have ever met who just does things without needing to be told.

OP, the stonewalling when you try to address things makes it very, very difficult to change anything. Suggests he doesn't want anything to change. I know you don't want to split but be careful you don't put up with this shit for twenty years only to have him start "the script" turn around and make out like you've put him through hell the whole marriage.

Also think about the impact for the better it could have on your kids if you were happier and had even two days a fortnight to completely rest. You might be a better mother and he might be a better father apart. Not trying to push you that way, just a thought.

It actually is emotional abuse to keep them in a situation where they constantly witness conflict.

I have an view on this topic which is very unpopular these days... but hey ho, here goes!

Stop both trying to be both interchangeable for everything!
The clothes being too small in the wardrobe is a good example, its really hard to both know and keep on top of everything.
Do divide and conquer is best.
Split ownership of all tasks that need doing out and assign one of your initials against each one to that its practical / realistic / fair / takes into account what your both good act / is your preference etc.

Then both step up to being good at what you need to do.
Do it without moaning or expecting a fucking medal from the other one.
Lead by saying thanks to your partner when they do their bits (hint: this is the best way to get thanks for doing your bits...).
Don't treat it like a competition or act like a martyr.

When we were in the worst of the young child / both working/ money being tight situation. I used to get my DH to take ours to his parents every second Sunday, they would be away for about 4 or 5 hrs. My PIL lived rurally so the kids got loads of running around, splashing in the tiny river building dens etc. DH would have to be totally involved, his mum would not do it for him she was a great MIL. I would put my feet up for an hour have a nice lunch all by myself, then get my music on and blitz the house. Yes I still had to tidy and strip the beds but it was so much easier without the kids there, then all it needed was a quick tidy each day. It worked well for us.

I think the problem is understandably people have fixated on the housework, how to fix it. This tip, this hack, do this.

Thats not what I’m posting about. Last night DD woke multiple times, I know he was awake, he was downstairs watching a film, but he didn’t come up to see if she was OK, if I needed a hand, would you like me to take her for a bit? Nothing.

And then you realise you’re alone and the state of the house is your problem because no one else will help.

No, not at all. Different set up here.
Honeymoon stage long over and pressure of the small kids.
Matter of the choice, reality of life.
🙁

This is exactly why I didn't have children with my ex. That windows gone for me now as I wasted so much time hoping he would just function as an adult and see me as an equal partner rather than free labour and actually care about how overwhelmed, humiliated and miserable he was making me.

Before we broke up, I begged him to consider shelling out for a cleaner (I would have paid half) which he point blank refused, as that would be a waste of his money and that I should do it all as I wfh.

I also begged him to see a counsellor with me, as every time I'd bring it up, it would turn nasty. Again, he framed this as a waste of his time and money.

I don't know how you feel, because I don't have kids. However, I do understand how gutting it is to be in a relationship with someone who is a complete bystander and active contributor to your isolation, frustration and exhaustion. And I don't want to plant seeds in your mind but I theorise that my ex behaved like this because his mother, who was employed, did all the cleaning, cooking and shopping for the home, even when she was dying of cancer. She was a saint to him and set the precedent of how a woman should be. I can't consider her life and wonder whether she felt loved and cared for, from my perspective I think that's a mortifying way to treat any woman, let alone one who's dying.

Do you think your husband would respond to a suggestion of a cleaner? If not then really ask yourself whether he cares about your welfare and what sort of example his behaviour is setting for your kids.

This advice boils down to: "do all the cleaning and cooking but do it more efficiently and complain less. Be nicer to the man."

OP you framed this originally as some sort of mutual communication problem. But it's really not that. You have a DH who is observing you crumbling and doesn't care. Listening to his child crying and not going to check is appalling.

Also you described yourself as a whore - if this is how you feel this is very sad and won't be fixed by tips on housework.

Can you picture what life would be like if you divorced and how does that make you feel?

Why don't you drop the sleepless child down to DH to mind tonight? Tell him he's in charge til 3am when you'll take over.
Stop expecting him to do things that he just isn't going to do. DC can sleep on the sofa for a bit, you get a bit more sleep and decide if you are willing to stick with this man.

I have to tell my DH to do things.
Then… I’m telling him what to do.

It’s just like having another child.
He asked me for money yesterday.

He’s asking for clean pants today.
They wonder why you don’t want sex.

This was me around 4 years ago.

I left him and couldn’t be happier. Kids are 9 and 11.

Ex looks after kids on his days (weekend) and I get some much needed rest.

We are very amicable.

It isn't a healthy relationship but it doesn't meet the threshold at which Social Services would get involved.

The OP is stressed and resentful but she doesn't take it out on her kids. Obviously, it would be ideal if the kids witnessed a idyllic marriage between two parents who were madly in love, but most households would fail on that metric.

I feel like this is emotional abuse, OP. He can see you're struggling and won't do anything. That's callous and neglectful. You need to be making a plan to leave.

I totally understand what you are saying OP; and why the advice you are being given, although well meaning, is not helpful.
The messy house is representative of your marriage; the unequal tidying representative of the unequal mental load in the relationship. Yes you can tidy / batch cook etc. That’s not the issue.
The issue to me is that you can’t talk to him about it because it makes it worse.
These are the beginning of the battleground years. The relentless years that pay off when the kids are older but that test every relationship. However, you have to have a basic level of communication.
If you can’t talk to him, then it’s not going to work. You are going to feel even more resentment. And potentially so will he, of course you don’t know how he’s feeling properly as he won’t talk to you.
It seems unlikely this relationship will last the course if it remains this way. Which doesn’t mean do something dramatic and leave now. But you might need to reframe your thinking about what the future might be like for you. And don’t have another baby with him.
Sorry if that sounds bleak but if you can’t communicate what is there?

I’m sorry things are so hard OP, even if you are able to survive til when the children are both at school, I expect you will rightly be holding a lot of resentment towards your DH. It’s this kind of behaviour that destroys marriages; he is slowly destroying your relationship. Look up wife work.
I left my ex partly because of this, and guess what, his home is incredibly tidy and well organised. They can do it, they just choose not to because they don’t care.

DH and I were like this. We committed to marriage guidance counselling and 5 years later are stronger and happier. We were skint at the time but found the money because in the long run it's cheaper than divorce and we did genuinely still love each other.

I would find that unbearable. He seems to have opted out of any parenting if you are available. If you did separate, would he do his fair share of parenting your children?

On the Divorce and Separation board, posters were asked to list how their lives improved once they had separated from their DP/DH. Many of the answers referred to there being so much less mess once their DH had left and the feelings of resentment when cleaning/tidying just disappeared.

It’s not emotional abuse. Sorry but it isn’t. Just like earlier posts about social services getting involved we’re also off the mark. It’s shit for the OP and it may mean they split up but relationships can do that without someone having to be an abuser.

I’ve only skimmed through the thread, so apologies if I am repeating / or have missed something. You both sound exhausted and overwhelmed. It is so so easy for resentment to build up in these situations (we definitely had it). In an ideal world there would be family members close by (to help relieve the load) or enough disposable income to pay for extra childcare, or extra support around the house (cleaner, who can do things like put clothes away etc). But where either of these aren’t possible, it makes life so so difficult. Aside from saying that these times can pass (when they are both at school or preschool, it will become much easier), I don’t have major advice, but there are some small things that we did (or that friends did) that did make things a bit easier.

• Alternate days for a lie-in / morning off at the weekend (one of you have the kids, and the other is allowed to stay in bed, or get up and do a hobby or meet friends, it can make you start to feel a bit human again).
• Drop your standards where you can. Re: washing clothes, choose things for the kids that don’t show the dirt so easily (combat/camouflage trousers for boys are a game changer - they don’t need washing half so often!); also spot cleaning (sponging off any obvious dirt) instead of washing the item. Obviously you can’t skimp on washing underwear - but there is probably capacity to reduce the frequency of what you do wash!
• Maybe focus on just trying to keep one room tidy on a daily basis, so you can retreat to it when you feel a bit overwhelmed, and so that if someone pops over unannounced it doesn’t make you shrivel up inside. If you have a separate living room (so you can shut the door) this might be ideal. Maybe reduce the numbers of toys in it, or buy a large toy basket / box that you can put it all in very quickly.
• It sounds like you are getting overwhelmed with stuff in the house (you mention there is very little storage space) - one of the key solutions to that is to massively reduce the amount of stuff you have out / on show, this will make it much easier to keep it tidy / clean, so your little slot of time for cleaning / tidying will go much further, if you aren’t having to repatriate everything or shift piles of stuff to dust around it. Having less stuff out can also make you feel calmer (visual chaos makes me feel so stressed, and also my DH, and contributes to a lot of bad feeling). You either need to get rid of a lot of stuff, or pack some stuff away and rotate what is out, or invest in better / more storage. Or a combination of all those. A key thing is to tackle this together though, a joint project for the two of you (it will help you feel more like a team with a common purpose). It is worth investing some time in - so maybe both of you take some annual leave when the kids are in nursery / preschool, to start tackling this - sorting / getting rid / getting better storage.
• Try not to sweat the little things - I have life admin from 15 + years ago that I completely dropped the ball on due to kids being small and feeling completely overwhelmed - some of it really doesn’t matter (and some of it did - but in the grand scheme of things I have to take that on the nose).
• Try and think about establishing some routines for both you and your DH - like he does particular things while you do particular things. A friend’s DH used to take both kids out for an afternoon at the weekend so that she could clean the house, that worked for them. Or your DH does bedtime routine with dc while you do dishwasher. Or he loads dishwasher in evening before bed. Or he unloads dishwasher every morning before work so it can be loaded-as-you-go during the day. Or you have 9.00pm-10.00pm as tv watching time together. Or do a special Sunday brunch every week. Routines can help life seem a bit easier, and can help keep chores in check without having to nag all the time.
• Get your kids in the habit of tidying helping out, as early as you can. This is something I so so wished that I had done (it is easier to do stuff quickly yourself when they are young, but I can say that having teens who don’t help out is a nightmare, and I so wish I had got them into the habit of putting one toy away before getting another out- aarghh!!)

I also agree with a pp - I had two small dc 15 years ago, was exhausted all the time and keeping myself propped up with sugar and caffeine, which made things worse. Blood tests showed I had low vit D and Low B12 levels (I suspect pregnancy and breastfeeding really strips your body of nutrients), so had prescription Vit D and B12 injections, and felt a million times better. Worth checking out.

Finally, be kind to yourself - you are doing an amazing job in extremely difficult circumstances.

Good luck - I feel for you (and for all those other mums out there going through this).