SAHM and divorce...any family lawyers?

[cookiesandcream24]

I know I won't be the only one in this situation...I will keep it brief

Absolutely not attracted to DH anymore, excuse after excuse to avoid anything intimate and just totally lost any romantic interest in him. Not something that will come back with counselling etc. Two kids primary age.

I have been a SAHM for ten years to allow my husband to continue his career, which takes him out of the country and always has done. For up to three weeks at a time. I've had a long long slog of a lot of single parenting during those ten years. He is a high earner so we chose to do it this way so I could be there for the kids 100pc whilst he's away.

My question is should I be now getting myself a job or should I wait ? As someone told me I should get proper legal advice before getting a job as it may look better if I don't? If we get to divorce point I mean...

Both kids (only as of this year) are now in school...

Anyone shed any light or been in same situation? My concerns are money as I don't have much back up. Huge mortgage.

🙏🏼

What were your qualifications/career before you had kids, @cookiesandcream24 ? Have you got any ideas what you might like to do job-wise?

No, that's very unlikely. If you want to do a masters you would be expected to take out a postgraduate loan and study part time.

Really? My husband has a good job, it is almost impossible for him to come in late/leave early/take a day off sick to look after the kids at short notice.

So I am a SAHM.

Would he have got so far in his career if I had also wanted a career? Probably not.

(Don't worry I have plenty in place in case he should run off with a 25 year old!)

I don't think it was a misogynistic comment and I don't think you are a family lawyer either. All of your advice could be copied and pasted from a website and no real lawyer would make such a bold claim without a much more detailed knowledge of the facts.

The arguments that SAHP's facilitate a career or have sacrificed their own have their limits. Certainly, it is possible in a single income household with children to make a case that one person has facilitated the other's career but that argument only extends as far as being able to allow one person to work long hours. It doesn't solve the quantum problem; someone with an ex who earns £360k for example hasn't necessarily facilitated a career six times as hard as someone whose ex earns £60k! We often end up with silly outcomes in HNW divorces because Premiership Footballers and City Bankers end up paying spousal maintenance from a career whose foundations were well established long before the recipient even came on the scene, let alone had children.

Sacrifice works the same way; a person still has to demonstrate what they've sacrificed and if they were stacking shelves at Tesco or flipping burgers at McDonald's before they quit work then it's a bit of a stretch to say they sacrificed anything once the assets are shared and they have to go back to work.

I assume people know they exist but they know compromises are made in other areas once you have kids. Me and my DP both had stressful high paying jobs in the city when we had kids but after a couple of years and having DS2 we decided something had to give, so he’s given up work. Of course we could have done it, but it wasn’t the life we wanted for our DC (no judgement for those who make different choices). But crucially, it was OUR decision. I’m still earning and my career will progress whereas he’ll probably do contracts when he’s goes back to work so it’s not all year round. It’s legitimate to make different choices but clearly one person is in a worse situation financially. Which needs to be addressed.

The patriarchy really does a number doesn’t it. In the same way that struggling low income households are duped into turning on other low income groups like people on benefits or asylum seekers rather than huge multi nationals not paying enough tax, women who work see SAHM as people who don’t work as hard as them and are in some way detracting from society…even that SAHM ‘owe’ society in some way (upthread the implication that working parents support healthcare). Shouldn’t we support each other and uniting against the PATRIARCHY which has created a system where female caregivers do most of the household tasks and are expected to keep up a career without adequate (affordable, inclusive) childcare options.

@cookiesandcream24 is it just the romantic attraction which you have lost? Do you still get on well otherwise? I think it's pretty common for the romantic element of a relationship to dwindle when you have young kids, but doesn't always necessarily mean you need to divorce? But maybe there are other factors involved?

Your comment about sacrifice shows you know nothing about Family Law. What proof would you like to see - my first class honours degree? My distinction at the Bar? Take your pick 🙄

I gave the basic position based on the information OP gave. If it can be found so easily on a website then please go ahead. Clearly you know better.

The other thing to factor in when even considering spousal maintenance, which is unlikely anyway, is that it really depends how much he actually earns. I know OP says “high earner” but that means different things to different people, where we live I know people would consider someone earning 45-50k a year to be a high earner and while that is a good wage it’s likely not enough to make spousal maintenance affordable. 200k, more likely.

People don't work away for 10-12 days at a time in niche careers to earn 50k.

Not necessarily true, my husband has a few friends who work away the same amount and earn around 45k.

@BeckyBloom but these days selling one house and getting more than half probably wouldn’t buy you a full other home outright , how would the op even get a mortgage? She can’t .
I don’t get it when people say sell the family home and then essentially buy two new ones.. maybe it’s just where I am but housing prices are obscene now.

This is such a mad comment. Every day, countless number of women support and facilitate their husbands careers, and their advancement, by staying at home, looking after their children, the home and taking of the husband himself. These women have indeed taken a step back from their own careers, just so they are always around, probably doing the lions share of parenting, so the husband doesn’t have to worry about the day to day realities of family life, and he can focus on bettering his own career. The woman would have made that choice in good faith, and it counts for so much. It’s funny how so often, as women, we have to run ourselves into the ground to prove that we are half as good enough, as the men in our lives, and even then we still get a good kicking for daring to point out that yes, our contributions and efforts are of great value as well.

Honestly, given what you stand to lose, it's... a bit surprising that you are so dead set on divorcing what you say is a good man and good dad simply because you've fallen out of love. It's your marriage and you living with it, so it is your choice to make, but have the two of you... talked about your feelings? Considered counselling together? Made a good faith effort to see if there is still any love there that can be built on?

If you are utterly sure it's dead in the water, it's your call to make, but your post-divorce life is likely to resemble your pre-divorce life except significantly poorer, and odds are it won't be long until your ex hooks up with someone else and your kids are looking at half-siblings and blended families.

@cookiesandcream24

I divorced around covid time - and have been a SAHM, with a high earning, travelling husband, etc.

So - as some of the more informed comments have already mentioned - it does really depend on the circumstances - most importantly the total assets and his income. Also, somewhat on what career you gave up.

In my case - it was a long marriage - almost 20years. I did give up a career in the same high earning field as exH. But, most importantly - his income was such that my barrister was able to argue for "compensation" in addition to "needs", which is a more common argument.

We split most assets 50/50, and I got CM and spousal till kids finish Uni. Which is rare in general, but not rare in the cases dealing with the divorces with similar circumstances.

What I'd say about getting a job now - don't quite yet. Do get proper advice - to understand where your case lies. As others have said - it's important to understand your financial position and how it will impact potential settlement. Then you can decide the best strategy.
(If your H is a high earner of the banker/layer/consultant type - then delaying re-training, or entering employment, may be a good strategy. You lo is only 4 - so you won't be expected to be in full time employment before they are in secondary. If he is high, but not super high earner - you may have to start doing it sooner)

But also - I'd try to do some thinking about why you are thinking about divorce. Your H travels, you have two small kids. You do a lot of childcare and sound tired. It's not unusual to feel less excited about life, and your marriage in these circumstances. And many women in your phase in life struggle with libido as life seems to be an endless drudge.

What I am trying to say - life after divorce, especially when you will have two still small children - is not going to become somehow magically better. And in many ways, it'll be harder and you will feel guilty. So - the pain you are about to inflict on everyone needs to be worth is.
Finally - I'd also make sure that your desire to change your life is genuinely linked to you marriage, and is not more an issue of burnout of depression.

In my case - it wasn't only that I lost desire for my exH - there was a lot of increased negativity that was starting to impact the relationship. And, he was becoming increasingly controlling and I was really unhappy, for a while.
I did try to hold on - I wanted the kids to be closer to secondary school age - which I think was a good strategy. My exH was also traveling - and it made it easier to survive in the marriage for longer. But at least the kids got a bit more of their childhood in stability, and without the upheaval of divorce.

If you do want to go ahead with divorce - be prepared. It's a tough process, and very expensive. PM me it you want - happy to share some solicitors names.

How do you think single parents manage? the ones who don’t have a partner to fund their life choices?

It’s not a competition?

Finances/ work / career/ children is the eternal balancing act for parents, single or otherwise.
Sacrifice and compromise are the essence of the family/ career balancing act.
How much sacrifice and compromise people are prepared to endure in order to pay the bills, have a career and a family life, usually dictates what people choose to do. What is right and agreed by some won’t be the right fit or agreement between others.
It’s hard to juggle it all and I think women still have guilt about the amount of time they get with their children versus trying to progress a career.
Considering how hard it is and how prioritising your children’s welfare should be the main concern, (which if we’re honest I think still, even in the 21st century, impacts women more than men) there’s a very sad amount of bashing women’s choices on this thread. Advice and differing points of view are useful but judging and eye rolling at what some have chosen to do in life are not.
OP I would see a few lawyers to work out what to do next and how to go about it, you will get advice without prejudice or judgement there.
How you have sorted out income/ childcare/ career prior to this was between you and your husband and there are always compromises and consequences from this for anyone, regardless of what kind of lifestyle they presumably mutually have chosen to adopt.
On a separate note I would have an honest conversation with your husband, who presumably has no idea what his future is going to be, as soon as possible. If you were him and had no idea that your husband was on the point of consulting solicitors about how to leave you, I’m sure you would want to know sooner rather than later.

OP - as someone who’s been through divorce, i’d say do NOT speak to your H yet, as the poster above suggested.
There is nothing to be gained from a general conversation along the lines ‘i am thinking about divorce’ - unless its followed by - unless this and that changes…. ie unless you are happy to work on the relationship.

Otherwise - this conversation will unleash pain without a clear path forward. And will lead you to act before you are ready - best case.
And worst case - it’ll give your H a head-start. Divorces often bring the worst in people. And you are the vulnerable party here.

So - be smart and plan first.

Because DHs job is not regular. It involves being away 3 weeks at a time. It's not like two parents who are around to swap things about to juggle things. Realistically it would mean having to hire a nanny which many people don't want to do.

Nonsense. The average salary on an oil rig is apparently £35k. Conservationists don't earn much. Academics can travel a lot with work but won't be on much more than £60k normally.

It's very important to work out what a person actually earns net of tax and essential work costs (e.g. commuting, tools, uniforms) before sensible advice on spousal maintenance can be given. The earning capacity of the recipient is also very important; in a contested case they will need to be able to prove that they need it.

Bollocks.
He would have had zero stress and time restraints due to the OP being a SAHP

Nannies do not replace a parent. All the mental load and every parental duty was removed from him. If you think parents do no more than a nanny then you must be a crap parent.

He was able to do any and everything asked of him without a single thought. He could drop everything to go on business trips without a single thought. He could disappear for weeks at a time without having to compromise anything. He will have been able to avoid all the time hungry things parents have to do.

This might be true but it changes after divorce anyway. The person who has had to be the breadwinner (often out of necessity rather than choice where there is a big gap in earning capacity when children come along) doesn't tend to be as willing to perform this role after divorce and nor should they be expected to. It will be quite reasonable for them to ask to step back at work to be able to do their share of parenting.

Nowadays the courts want to achieve a clean break and also involvement by both parents in a child's upbringing. Not even trying to get a job when you can work will be frowned upon by some judges nowadays.