Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

Your marriage is doomed. You make the right noises to your wife but it's clear what your real thoughts/feelings are.

I'm not in agreement with everyone. Both your mother and your wife sound horrible and selfish. Your wife sounds just as bad, if not worse than your mother. Your wife doesn't care about how this is making you feel and she doesn't care about damaging the important relationship between your mother and your child.

I feel sorry for you.

As for all the bitchy 'ditch your mother' comments on this thread - all these women will be back here complaining about their hateful daughter in laws in a few years.

Am just going to point out this isn't just a "child of divorce" problem.

My parents were one of those couples who I guess stayed together "for the kids". The same dynamic happened though of walking on eggshells to keep things from blowing up.

They both sound very difficult, you have my sympathies.

Many people make insensitive comments in the baby years, your wife needs to find a way to move on and not dwell on everything so much.

That said you need to be clear to your dm that her comments are insensitive and hurtful and if she wants to be included she needs to recognise that.

Regarding Christmas I'd just spend Christmas eve or Boxing day with your dm take your dd let your wife have some me time perhaps.

We all may have difficult relatives but she is your dm, your wife should recognise you of course want some kind of relationship with her and she needs to stop being so controlling.

Get a grip. Lots of families manage to live with or resolve complex issues with their relationships.

Likely said from someone who has decent loving parents, unfortunately not everyone is so lucky.

Some of us have narcissistic, manipulate and downright nasty parents and you just don't know if this is the case here.

The fact is, the wife felt it necessary to set boundaries and good on her, no one should be forced to have visitors in their home that make them unhappy, especially on a holiday you want to enjoy with your child.

"Inconsiderate comments when wife was struggling to breastfeed, about how it was easy for her. Similar comments about other aspects of baby rearing.
Taking baby downstairs without asking wife's permission when she was recovering from birth"

I haven't voted because this isn't a straightforward AIBU. But unless your mother genuinely regretted doing these things and apologised, I'd feel the same as your wife.

Your mother sounds like my late mother but worse. This isn't just verbal diarrhoea as you call it, she's thoughtless and selfish.

I was unable to breastfeed despite trying very hard, and I was extremely upset about it. Every time my mother called she'd say "have you got enough milk? I had plenty of milk!" Every time. And I'd say actually no, I can only pump a little bit. She never noticed I was crying because of her thoughtlessness, she was too busy blathering on about what a bountiful milk fountain she was and how breastfed babies are more intelligent than formula fed ones.

I can't tell you how hurtful that was, and it's impossible to brush off comments like that or just forgive, especially when it's part of a pattern of nastiness. Walking off with the baby without the new mother's permission isn't ok either.

Think very hard about the peacemaker role you've made for yourself. I get that you don't want to cut your mother off from yourself and your daughter, but you should be able to stand up to her, and there are times when it's right to say "that is NOT ok mum, don't do that".

Your mother sounds really toxic and your wife is already compromising. She agrees to your mother seeing your child and she agrees to seeing her over the Christmas break, just not on Christmas Day itself.

Your mother has already alienated one child, she needs to stop this manipulation.

Sorry I posted before I saw the list of “bad” things your Mum has done, and actually all of those seem so minor to me. Most of them seem to be her feeling a bit hurt and neglected, there is nothing as bad as I expected, more just normal friction within a family. Hardly things to stop seeing your own Mum over.
A bit of tolerance and forgiveness, understanding and kindness would go a long way.

This. Tell them both to grow up!

My mother is selfish and inconsiderate and isn't willing to back off when asked.

So you recognise this is bad behaviour

She lets her feelings get the better of her and suffers from verbal diahorrea which leads to thoughtless comments.

She makes thoughtless comments. She should learn to control her behaviour. But actually it sounds like people get her away with it, so she doesn't

She was very loving and caring when bringing me up and is always offering to help.

What did she actually do, beyond the basics of bringing up a child?
You've mentioned a lot of negative things about her. Are you saying this because you feel you ought to?

She makes me feel I'm the only one with a key to her happiness as 'family is everything'.

Not fair on you.

I resent the fact she never made more effort to move on from my dad and I am effectively her emotional support. Perhaps I have enabled this but it's just kind of happened since I was too young to know not to.

And certainly not fair on a child

My wife is being very hard-nosed about it all but I was never a new mother and don't know how much damage it has really done, so I have to take her at face value that my mother causes her mental health to suffer.

I don't think it's anything to do with being a new mother - it's more to do with not having experienced a family relationship with a person who was "loving and caring" - you claim your mother is that - do you think the way she treated your wife was loving and caring?

I also feel she makes ultimatum-like statements when we discuss this which are unkind when I am just trying to work through a problem.

I agree. But equally I suspect the bi-monthly visits are your wife's compromise and she actually finds even that too much

I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.

So what would need to happen for the situation to improve? For example, would it help if your mother apologised for past behaviour and demonstrated she had changed? Would she do this, or does she not think she has anything to apologise for?

I don't care what happens to me, I just want a compromise that everyone can make peace with and doesn't affect my daughter's happiness (ie doesn't break up my family - I was a child of divorce and I don't ever want that for her).

For this, and for every other one of the points OP, I would really suggest you have therapy to help you understand yourself, and your family dynamics. I found this post incredibly sad. You have spent your whole life pleasing others - first your mum, and now your wife, to the point it seems that you have lost your whole identity. Best of luck.

Sounds like there is no black and white bad guy in this. Looks like there would be a lot of room for compromise with both women.

Genuinely find the demonstration on this thread of people's lack of ability to tolerate or be generous towards other family member's personal failings incredibly sad.

This is a perfect summary of the situation.

I have a MIL like your mum. You can't make your wife do Christmas day, she sounds fed up of your mums wants coming before your wife's feelings.

I agree with PP that only thinking about how other people feel is key here.
Not sure if you’ve ever had counselling/therapy but as you present information so well and do want to look for solutions I think it would be great for you. As awful
as your wife feels she has been treated, it’s clear you want a relationship with your mum.
But in that basis so much needs to change and that needs to come from you.
Yes, she’s your mum but at some point when feeling a bit more empowered it’s important she knows….

• the hurt she has caused your wife, which impacts your marriage, too
• for that reason your wife does not want to be around her
• that she has deeply offended your brother
• that her relationship with you is going to deteriorate as a result of all of the above

People do not like hearing the facts but at some point it’s better to speak up. Your mother may create a fuss and go into victim mode but if she does, let her. You are her son, not her husband. It is time to get a bit tougher. Then you can work out things from there. But having to play Judge Judy all the time is getting you nowhere. If that sounds too difficult this situation will rattle on. Unpacking your past with a good therapist and working on solutions will give you confidence and also help your marriage. I don’t think you will ever persuade your wife to change her mind but you count, too.

They are minor. Dgm comments on baby feeding, dares to take the baby downstairs! Seriously.

If I'd fallen out wirh everyone who told me certain aspects of the baby years were easy I'd have no one left.

Does your wife have problems with other people or just your dm op?

Yup, tolerance is dead, you see it here. Really sad

Some of us have tried to live with toxic and abusive parents for years and have realised that no amount of tolerance can change them and exposing our own children to this behaviour is harmful to them.

I think OP's update (and the fact that other sibling is already no contact) makes it clear that this is not down to a few "personal failings".

I suspect both the women in your life are quite strong characters and they like the fact they can manipulate you.

Its OK for your wife not to want to spend time with your mum on Christmas day - but I see no reason why you could not take your daughter to your mum's house for a few hours or a few hours on Christmas eve or Boxing Day.

Your mum doesn't not sound that nice....but you should see my list of my m'n'law she makes your mum sound great. But I just think my hubby has one mum and she is part of the reason he is such a special wonderful man, so I don't make it difficult for him or my kids to spend time with her. And I know he appreciates it.

“I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation”
What about your expectations for your mother to improve the situation, or better still, back your wife up, put clear boundaries in place for your mother and every time she crosses the boundary, you inform her that you will not tolerate it and if she cannot be pleasant, she will not get time with your family?

'Some of us have tried to live with toxic and abusive parents'

She doesn't sound toxic or abusive. Just insensitive.

I think there's a lot of projection on this thread.

I wonder what the comments would be if it was the other way round. My impression is that in the UK - daughters are allowed to keep on having difficult relations with their side of the family but not the sons. My parents have plenty said things like that to me, but they are also loving grandparents. You can certainly cut people off for big things but the idea that you should go NC because of a few unhelpful comments seems odd. Yes, clearly for your wife it would be easier if you mother didnt exist - and perhaps you shouldnt insist they see each other. But if she is ok with your daughter then you can just carry on seeing your mother with you child without your wife.

Your mother has done some very unpleasant things. You expect your wife to forgive but has your mother ever asked for forgiveness?

This is a tough situation OP and you sound like a really decent person.

Your DM sounds a bit like my MIL. Very bitter about FIL leaving her 15 years ago for another woman and has used it as means to play victim and manipulate her DC since. We ended up eloping because she spoilt our engagement do by starting drama with FIL.

DH and I do not speak to her anymore but I left him to come to that decision himself. If he wished to have a relationship with her again I would support him - although having her over for Xmas dinner would be a bit too far for me, but I’d have no issue him going and visiting her with our DC.