Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

Your wife will be a mother in law one day….hope she is treated exactly as she treats your mum! Eye for an eye and all that

I agree with this.

It is very sad. I get there are circumstances where MIL or any family members can be toxic. But I do think we seem to hold a different standard for MIL and seem to look for reasons to cut contact.

I do often wonder if people remember they will also one day be the MIL. My MIL was a very present figure from a different culture to me. I admit there was definitely the occasional eye roll over certain things and I sometimes had to bite my tongue. But tbh that has been the case with many people in life.

I will always remember when my DH was ill one day he was asleep on the couch and she came round. The look she gave him fussing over him was the look I know I had with my then babies. That moment reminded me she was also a mother and how I felt about my children she felt about DH.

It’s a hard one OP as your wife sounds set in how she feels. Without the full story (which would be very hard to get). I can only recommend talking to your wife again when tensions are not high.

Would not seeing your DM mean she is alone for Xmas? Perhaps even you just go around on Xmas day for an hour? Or see if there are any church events your mother could attend so she at least sees people/has a meal etc.

Yup. Very good post.

Just to give you the heads-up OP, MN is quite a hive of anti-Mil sentiment. Not sure if that’s what you were looking for, but it’s what you’ll get - even if, as @MounjaroUser has astutely pointed out, we don’t even know the facts.

ETA I just caught your update, thanks.

Truthfully? They both sound like PITAS. Sorry you are caught in the middle.

Go and visit her instead

Your mum sounds similar to my MIL, but based on the examples you've given mine is considerably worse. She's done and said some awful things over the years, is completely self centred and pretty unpleasant to be around. BUT I still wouldn't consider her "so unbearable" that I would stop her visiting or prevent her coming around Christmas time. We still see my MIL regularly and have her to stay in our home for fairly long periods. I just can't get on board with the trend of cutting people out completely. Apart from anything, isn't interacting with weird relatives part of what keeps life interesting?? My DP and I quite enjoy the post-visit character analysis of all the strange things she does and says. I think the key is making sure you are always a united front and don't allow someone like that to manipulate and divide you as a couple. We always put very firm boundaries in place (and pretty much ignore the inevitable tantrums when they come). We are kind and respectful with her, but we don't let her walk all over us and we have a good laugh between ourselves as a way to vent. I think you need to have an open and honest conversation with your wife. It's sounds like you might have been an apologist for your mum's poor behaviour in the past. Maybe if you make clear to your wife that you have her back and will put in place clear with boundaries with your mum, then your wife will find it easier to consider a Christmas visit.

Oh, interesting your mother has another son that doesn't see her.

What does that tell you?

I feel mumsnet is absolutely blind to the fact that some women really do hate their mother in laws for no reason.

This is a possibility but I feel the fact the MIL calls her son every day talking about how depressed she is, and laying on the guilt that she won't have a relationship with her granddaughter, laying on guilt over Christmas etc implies to me she is a manipulative woman who doesn't like her DIL much. If she was a reasonable MIL, she would do her best to stay out of the way, wait for invitations and try to repair the relationship in a positive way through kindness not throb trying to drive a wedge between her son and his wife.

had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

Yes. My level of tolerance was 20 years of taking her unpleasant, passive-aggressive swipes which she never missed an opportunity to make. I didn't see a great deal of her up until the point of having children: she lives a 2-hour drive away which helps. I had no real opinion of her and she showed a similar level of interest in me. All that was fine.

It was after DC arrived that she decided to put me back in my box, persistently addressing me as DH's name and my child by the wrong name despite being asked to stop doing this, always being on hand with a snide comment and nasty little digs. On two occasions she came to my house, ate the food I'd cooked and refused to speak to me. The second time she did this I'd had a serious accident, leaving me incapacitated for some time, and had almost been killed by two massive pulmonary emboli developed after surgery. She wasn't told about the accident for some time and I'm unsure whether that caused the offence, but I don't confide in people I know don't wish me well. When we met for the first time afterwards I never expected she'd show a second's concern as to how I was, and she didn't. But she couldn't even bring herself to say 'hello' and refused to speak to me for the entire visit. When she dismissed me with a sharp gesture after I wished her a safe drive home, I decided then and there that she would never be welcome in my home again. DH was mortified by her behaviour and agreed.

DH now fully facilitates the relationship between himself, his mother and DC. I want no part of it, or her, again. Neither of them would want Christmas without me, and MiL is unlikely ever to be alone at Christmas as she's married and has other grandchildren.

But if my stance did result in her spending Christmas alone, then I'm afraid you reap what you sow.

I agree with Cherrysherbert why can’t a well equipped, well educated, middle aged woman have the tools and experience to manage your mum for a day or so. Could she not have an honest chat with her ? We would love to have you round but I am feeling like this when you….. like the other posters am not sure what previous arguments are, one persons domination is another persons wanting to help as much as they can. Quite often women can transfer negative relations they have had with their own mothers on to other family members.

Your mum is on her own it’s understandable that she wants to spend time with her grandkid on an important day as they will not be around forever, your wife can easily go and visit some one in the evening or sit in other room if things get too much.

Is there a family member who can act as a go between who gets on well with your wife to smooth relations ?

Best Of Luck

Your poor mum! You only have one mum! Ever!

I wouldn't have my MIL around any special days because she would spoil them. My kids are only little once. The memories are precious. I suspect your MIL is like mine. My hubby sided with her and tried to persuade me to things too until finally in lock down he saw her true colours. She might be different. But until me and hubby had a united front she didn't change because she had no reason too.

Op, you need to cut the umbilical cord. You are a grown man with a wife and child. You have created your own family and they come first.Your mother had her turn 40 years. She is an adult and is perfectly capable of organising her own Christmas.

Your wife and your mum do not get on. Not unreasonably, your wife wants to enjoy Christmas with her husband and little one.

So compromise with your wife, and agree to invite your mum over on Boxing Day. Then have a day alone together, then invite your MIL on the 28th.

I had an MIL who made my life a misery and my spineless ex allowed it to happen, so I took our son and left. If you don't support your wife and you make her unhappy, she has every right to leave and it will be down to you.

This is a really clear response to the various questions. High level - I think you would find yourself in a much better place if you chose the boundaries for both sides here and stopped trying to get them to agree. If I were you I would take your wife’s sensible suggestion about Christmas and tell you mother that you won’t be having her involved in Christmas Day but you are happy to organise a time nearby - if she doesn’t like that then stop letting her burden you with her feelings and just make it clear that whilst you love her, you have clear priorities and your family unit is that which means for as long as she doesn’t get on with your wife she will always “lose out”. Likewise, i would be clear with your wife that whilst you support her feelings and understand them, it’s important to you (not to your mother) to give your mother the opportunity to have a real relationship with your kids for as long as she sticks to certain rules within that and so you would like to take them to visit more than every couple of months - your wife sounds like she does care about your feelings here and just needs to know that you are capable of always prioritising her and the kids even when you continue a relationship with your mother. By being too passive here I think you are making it worse as when you go to your wife she will just see you as siding with your mother instead of genuinely espousing what’s important to you - and clearly your mother is a little toxic so why would she want to give her anything, whereas it sounds like a lot of the rest of your marriage is happy/healthy and so your wife probably wants to do things that make you happier.

I’m quite sure that if your wife is saying your mum is quite the arsehole, she isn’t lying. Mum in laws can be very domineering and when they feel they’ve lost their son or are losing control of their son to another woman that presumably means more to their son than they do they show their claws. You have to pick and choose and you have to decide who is worth the trouble. Your mum is only doing what you let her do and because you aren’t backing your wife by setting clear boundaries you’re showing your mum that her behavior is acceptable. Your wife doesn’t deserve someone disrespecting her especially someone close to you and you need to accept that if your mum doesn’t want to accept her she doesn’t have to but what she needs to do is be respectful of your wife and her concerns. This isn’t her scene anymore and you are supposed to be a grown man. Man up and show your wife that you respect and love her by making your mom step in line. There’s only one thing that insufferable mom in laws respond to which is a son. With balls. She would rather get in line than lose you and your love because she was being too much. She’ll get it together. But you are the anchor. Never allow anyone to mistreat your wife. Including your mother.

I am trying to get my head round this and am confused because male posts are rare on this site. May I ask if you are in a same-sex marriage?

The two of you need to get organised and a common front against MIL.
So agree to set aside a couple of hours when daughter can go to see granny either somewhere nice which reduces the chance of a drama or at grannys house where MIL may show her real self - then decide if shes fit to be part of your day going forward.

It tells us his mother cares enough about his health to hassle him about is weight & lack of exercise & no doubt laziness by the sound of it.

I completely agree with this. Your mum may be far from perfect but the list of things she's done wrong really isn't the end of the world and she's your mum for god's sake. Your wife is totally unreasonable to expect you to cut her off too. Fair enough if she doesn't want to see her, but she shouldn't control your own relationship with your parent.

Yes your mum sounds like hard work but so does your wife. I feel for you to be honest

I feel sad for your mum that this is the person you've chosen to be married to. You can see with your own eyes that your wife just doesn't like your mum, and for me, you've signed up to a lifelong battle. Your mum probably was hoping to gain a daughter in law and grandkids and be part of your family but is being rushed out.
Personally I'd always out my mum before a wife. A wife can be replaced but a mum can't. I'd go ajd soend tike with your mum on christmas ajd stand up to your wife cause I honestly think her nastiness wreaks.

Yes reading it again. Your wife sounds f toxic with her control and ultimatums

The one thing that I think is very telling about the situation, is that your brother has gone no contact with her for 'comments about his weight.'
I think there is a lot more to that story than what you have mentioned, I just can't see anyone going no contact with a parent over that. Which makes me think of you have downplayed that, you have likely downplayed what she has done to your wife.

The fact is your wife does feel this way because of your mums behaviour, you don't get to invalidate that and trying to do so will not repair it. I think you have to acknowledge your wife's feelings completely and take the way she feels as absolute fact. You need to explain to your mother why your wife feels the way she does. Your mother can either accept that the events are true and inaccurate and that is how her actions made daughter in law feel. She doesn't get to excuse her actions as she 'suffers from verbal diarrhea' she doesn't, no one does she said something horrible because she wanted to and thought she could.

Perhaps if your mother does acknowledge how her actions have hurt her there may be hope for the relationship to move forward. But she doesn't get to play the lonely card when the tools to repair her relationship with your wife and her own son are in her own hands. You are just enabling her behaviour by failing to hold her accountable. Christmas is over 2 months away, plenty of time for her to make amends.

My mil is awful - never liked me because she doesn't think women should work. Their husbands should keep them. Her husband lost his business and house - never did she once think of getting herself a job. I'm also too opinionated. She's told dh the family never liked me (not good enough for them lol) and told my next door neighbour I'm an utter bitch. NDN wasn't having any of it.

Sadly dh's younger brother died in a motorcycle accident this summer - he was on life support in London and dd went to see him (dh and his db were in contact despite us being nc with mil/sil for a long time). MIL looked through and utterly ignored dd - who had come from Newcastle to London to see her uncle - said, "You had no right to bright your family here. He wouldn't have wanted it." Right in front of her granddaughter, looking right through her. Well he would have because we'd been in contact although she didn't know, but for context that's what an utterly horrible mil looks like.

She turned up after me at the church too with her horrible narcissistic daughter just to make an entrance. So sad and pathetic. They have fallen out with so many people. She said way back when I was 22 it would never last between us. I'm 60 and it has.

This weekend there's a celebration of dh's lovely brother's life. It'll be hard because sil will absolutely want to make it all about her.

On mumsnet I know people have issues with their mils. I really really do and it's been going on 40 years! I now know it's definitely not me and feel a freedom. They are unpleasant, sad narrowminded people. Glad my children haven't been tainted by their nonsense. DS is getting married next year. Only family member invited from dh's side is late db's widow. Luckily, dcs have lots and lots of friends and neighbours who took their place, doing a much much better job.

The OP says that his wife often makes noises about it being a choice between his mother and her.
I think she took affront over the breastfeeding comment/taking the baby downstairs etc and MIL failed to see what was so wrong. Wife then decided she disliked MIL and has restricted access to the granddaughter.
Obviously MIL is going to make ( maybe catty) "remarks " about this.
Wife wants H to choose to prove his love.
MIL is irritating/outspoken yes, but it's the wife who is toxic.

See, I think it is just naturally quite hard to get along with In-laws. You marry the person, not their parents. But if you love that person, you make an effort, warts and all. You find that level that you can all live with in the knowledge that generally (and obviously there are always exceptions if there is substance misuse or other serious issues), but generally no one will love and care for your child more than family. And the more people your child has to rely on and to love them in their lives, the better. Your mother sounds as if she has her heart in the right place even if she is too blunt and a bit self absorbed. But if she was a loving mother, she will most probably be a loving grandmother. And another person to rely on should push come to shove in looking after your child.

Personally I am so glad my Mil insisted on getting to know our children. We are not best mates, but we work at it together. My DH takes them round - a win, win, she gets to see them all, he gets a hand with childcare/food prep and I get a free window to myself. What is not to like?! That is the way I would sell it & maybe try to get your Mum to just dial it back a bit, to just be there to support.

I told a woman years ago that I expressed my milk she looked at me with a look and said why do you do that why not breastfeed. Everyone has an opinion about something the only one who can control how you respond is you.

There is this believe that parents when they have finished bringing up their children they should be seen but not heard. Couldn't his wife tell her not to take the baby out of the room without her knowledge because she'll have a panic attack? She would probably understand it could have been a human error or a grandmotherly instinct. I think there needs to be more compromise rather than dummy out of pram and making ultimatums. Your mum don't sound that bad.

I am fat my family tells me all the time I need to lose weight should I be upset or should I be grateful that someone cares about me?