Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

@StewartGriffin
Come off it. SO many people comment on breastfeeding
Who knows whether she said it in a concerned way about how she found it easy but it must be draining for the OP's wife to find it so hard.
It's completely insensitive I know
But it's not sufficiently "abusuve" or "toxic" to warrant cruelty on Christmas Day.
The fact that the MIL might have used her son as an emotional prop is the OP's problem ( and again she shouldn't be punished for this without HIM having a conversation with her about it if he wants to)

"Come off it. SO many people comment on breastfeeding"

@italianlondongirl and it's so nice that so many women are firmly pushing back against this now rather than putting up with crappy behaviour and comments about their bodies and their parenting decisions.

I think that a horrendous thing to say about women. What is the logic that older women are threatened by fertility? Or that it somehow lessens their status in the family. or they are baby snatchers?

It’s one of the most anti feminist things I’ve ever read.

I couldn't breastfeed and it was people my own age who commented!!!
And still do... I should have "persevered".
I wept many tears about how I was failing my child.
HOWEVER I still don't think that a comment like that is "toxic" and warrants exclusion on Christmas Day?
This thread ( if it's real) makes me so very sad that people can be so cruel.

"I think that a horrendous thing to say about women. What is the logic that older women are threatened by fertility? Or that it somehow lessens their status in the family. or they are baby snatchers?

It’s one of the most anti feminist things I’ve ever read."

@the7Vabo what on earth are you talking about? I have not said any such thing in my post. Maybe read the words in front of you rather than projecting.

"I couldn't breastfeed and it was people my own age who commented!!!
And still do... I should have "persevered"."

@italianlondongirl and I hope you felt able to tell them where to go and to keep their opinions to themselves. Just like the OP's wife has done.

I can read thanks. And I’m not projecting I have young kids myself.

The OP’s wife has added it to her MIL’s list of sins to be held against her.

I had tons of people comment on BF it was annoying at the time, I’ve managed to let it go.

If we all had someone who didn’t like us write out a list of things we’ve done wrong none of us would come out clean.

I think if there was any doubt, the fact the second son no longer speaks with his mum is very telling. It's incredibly rare for sons to cut off their mothers. It must be bad.

OP speaks of compromise: it sounds like the person who hasn't yet made any compromise od the MIL. She stops phoning daily and complaining, she gets a monthly visit. She gets a visit during the Christmas holidays but not on Christmas day. That is a compromise.
If all of the above go well she might start getting weekly visits.

@the7Vabo you are projecting seeing as I at no point talked about fertility, family status or "baby snatching".

Mothers often comment about weight and health from a place of concern. Perhaps he didn’t like it.

The mother gets to see what sounds like a fairly young child every two months. She’s hardly in the child’s life at all.

What did you mean then when you said that MIL’s behaviour gets worse around the time of birth?

You know what “projecting” means? That is take my own life circumstances and projecting them onto what you’ve said. As I’ve said I’m not a MIL.

"What did you mean then when you said that MIL’s behaviour gets worse around the time of birth?"

@the7Vabo I meant exactly what I said in my post, again, nothing about fertility, family status or "baby snatching".

No you just casually asked why MIL behaviour gets worse around childbirth and vulnerable women, and asked why they use it as a time to increase “power” and “influence”.

And I asked what your logic is behind that comment?

The point is that her DIL hit the roof because she took her newborn DD away from her within the same house. Who in the name of fuck then thinks, against the backdrop of that reaction, that it's a good idea to take the baby out of the house to visit her friend when she's supposed to be overseeing nap time?

@FetchezLaVache
But isn't that done and dusted now?
Or should one hold grudges and punish someone for years?

@the7Vabo

No you just casually asked why MIL behaviour gets worse around childbirth and vulnerable women, and asked why they use it as a time to increase “power” and “influence”.

Yes my MIL did this, they defo use a time where you are vulnerable to walk all over you. Nice! Do you think it's a conscious decision?

The thing that really gets to me is that the DIL is upset about the MIL’s actions around her child, but she’s also depriving the MIL of contact with her own child.

How would she like if the little girl who is the centre of her world grows up to tell her she doesn’t want to see her at Christmas.

Yes I get there is a difference between a baby /small child and adult man. But your child is still your child.

Whatever my MiL might say to me I would never tell her son he cannot see his mother.

If it was a one off case of poor judgement, grandma being excited to show off baby and not thinking about how it might impact, MIL had apologised and not repeated the behaviour, then sure it would be forgiven, done and dusted. But from what OP has said, his mother is thoughtless and selfish, repeatedly stomps on boundaries and doesn't seem to apologise or care how others feel.

'Whatever my MiL might say to me I would never tell her son he cannot see his mother'

Absolutely this. The wife doesn't have to like her, go for coffee or see her all the time but she should recognise that the dh wants to have some kind of relationship with her even if low contact amd that includes allowing the dc to see her dgm especially at times like Christmas.

With respect to your own circumstances, I don’t think “they defo use a time where you are vulnerable to walk all over you”, is fair to MILs/women in general.

MIL aren’t one group like some kind of Disney villains. It’s an individual relationship between MIL and DIL and like all relationships some go smoother than others.

I think the missing piece of information here is what happened after all the incidents that OP has mentioned?

So, for example, when his mother took the baby downstairs when his wife was recovering from birth. What happened when the wife realised what had happened?

Scenario 1:
(Mum) Oh, I do apologise, I just took the baby downstairs because you looked exhausted and I thought it would give you a rest. I’m sorry that it scared you, it was thoughtless of me. I won’t do it again without asking you first.

Scenario 2:
(Mum) What are you looking so worried about? I only took the baby downstairs to give you a break! I was doing you a favour. Honestly, you are making a fuss over nothing, do you not think I can look after a baby?
<goes off to OP to complain that this demonstrates that his wife doesn’t like her and she is insulted not to be trusted with the baby>

If it’s something like Scenario 1, and the mum didn’t do it again, then the wife would clearly be UR to still bear a grudge
If it’s closer to scenario 2, the rationale behind limiting contact makes much more sense.

From your post, your mother sounds as though she has been a real rude and difficult pain in the arse towards your wife. Nobody needs that in their life. Your wife has therefore, rightly, set boundaries and tried to keep away from your mother.

Now your mother has found herself in a difficult, lonely position with limited contact with you and her granddaughter and (no?) contact with your sibling.

As a result of finding herself in this lonely position, the right thing to do would have been to offer a sincere apology for making the post partum time even more difficult than it should have been and a sincere promise to amend her behaviour going forwards. However, she has chosen to try and manipulate you emotionally.

In your position, I would take the baby yourself to see her on boxing day. Christmas day is a hard no for someone who doesn't show any signs of being a supportive family member.

Being a MIL to a son's wife is something that needs to be done with care. My mum is a MIL to my brother's wife and she is careful not to overstep and to respect SIL's parenting (eg she would not offer unsolicited advice to do things differently, but she would offer advice when asked) and she is always supportive and helpful towards my SIL. Hence there is no problem!

Your mum needs to understand that she has caused this problem and only she can amend her behaviour.

to be fair to the wife she has not said he cannot see his mother or that they will not meet up over Christmas (with dd). She just wants the actual day itself free of her MIL so she can enjoy it with her family.

The line of tolerance, which was originally asked for, is will MiL add to the day in a positive way or wreck it? If the latter meet up on Boxing Day (which may be a compromise in itself).

OP please for the sake of your marriage do not tell your wife you're taking your child for a few hours on Christmas day to see your mom. I think 27th-30th is best.

Your wife has already compromised and tried to meet in the middle, so asking her to take another step without your mom doing anything to resolve the situation will really hurt her. Your priority right now needs to be your marriage. Show your wife you love her and will protect her feelings, this is extremely important for the relationship. Once your wife feels secure with you in relation to this, you may be able to improve the relationship between your wife and mom, but not before.

Women can handle a lot in relationships but we can get to a point of no return where we feel so hurt and un protected by a man, we completely fall out of love, and 99% of the time we can't go back.