Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

Your wife doesn't have to do a damned thing to improve the situation. She's made her position clear. YOU need to stop pandering to your mother given her past behaviours, I don't blame your wife one iota.

She once took her from upstairs to downstairs while the wife was having a rest by the sounds of things.

And she took her for a walk, round to a friends house during a babysitting session, presumably because she was proud and excited to show her off to a friend, rather than sit indoors bored, as the wife would have preferred.

Hardly kidnapping, is it? I'm sure she's been made to understand that she overstepped, but is it worth making her spend Christmas alone over?

It sounds like she went into the bedroom where OP's wife was recovering from childbirth and took the baby. When the OP says without permission, I assume that his wife was asleep and woke up to find the baby gone. That is a cruel thing to do to a new mother.

She should have asked permission to take the baby to her friend's house.

She obviously has no boundaries and assumes that she can do what she likes.

No, but it was upsetting. And there were many other upsetting incidents.

"What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?"
Given the "Examples of mother being awful", I am Team Wife. I wouldn't have your mother over for Christmas either. As for 'another date' - I'm not sure I would.

Your brother is now No Contact with your mother. Your wife is Low Contact with your mother. Your mother is indeed "manipulative" and it's plain to see that she manipulates you and has done since your childhood. Let's look at the (for me) two main points:

• I resent the fact she never made more effort to move on from my dad and I am effectively her emotional support. Perhaps I have enabled this but it's just kind of happened since I was too young to know not to.

You were "too young to know" - but she wasn't. There's actually a name for this - Parentification. Here is a brief description. See if you recognise yourself.

• She makes me feel I'm the only one with a key to her happiness as 'family is everything'.

This is very wrong of your mother. She's basically holding you hostage through guilt. It's part of her parentification of you. And it's very manipulative.

Trust your wife (and your brother?) - you need to do something about the blinkers your mother put on you all those years ago. Your wife is not being hard-nosed, she's putting boundaries in place that you need to have with your selfish and manipulative mother. She's looking out for herself, she's looking out for you, and she's looking out for your/her daughter.

One last thing -
"It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother "
Why? Your mother is toxic, why would you inflict her on your daughter? Because your mother drummed 'family is everything' into you? A healthy family is great, but your mother is not healthy family. Put your daughter's welfare before the feelings your mum trained into you when you were still a child. And trust your wife - she is clearer-sighted on this matter than you are currently able to be.

This

I believe we may have the same MiL, tbh I feel mine will only be happy when she has her (adult) children back home in their childhood bedrooms.

We keep her at arms length, I’m sure she gripes and grouses about me but tbh I would follow your wife and brother’s lead.

Waste of time commenting as the OP can’t be arsed to return and answer our questions. But I’m hoping he’s been handed his arse on a plate!

I hope he's reading and also noting the posts that show some understanding of his situation. Why do you think he deserves to be served his arse on a plate? Even the posts that are supportive of his wife's position recognise that his mother has put a lot of emotional pressure on him from a young age.

He has ignored his wife’s comments and believed his mum. Total disregard for his wife’s feelings. No, he does require to have his arse served on a plate.

Well aren’t you a compassionate person

OP is upset and asking for advice and he gets a load of abuse from angry people

OP - the relationship board on MN is full of ranters misusing psychological terms such as narcissism and coercive control. Tgey don’t do nuance. Talk to a friend or a therapist and ignore all the unpleasantness on here. Good luck finding a solution

"The mother has been inappropriately using her son as an emotional crutch since his father left home"

Her son is an adult, not a vulnerable child or a teenager. I've been 'an emotional crutch' to my elderly mum for 15 years since my dad died. I don't resent it at all, even though my mum can be difficult. My sister and brother are the same - we love her. We don't expect her to be a perfect parent. She's a human being, she gets stuff wrong, but she loves us and we love her.

Sure it’s been said already, but imagine the reverse if a husband said his wife’s lonely dm couldn't come for Christmas for a couple of hours. Universal leave the controlling arsehole. 🤷‍♀️

Yes someone quoted people's replies but substituted my wife for "my husband". It came across very differently indeed!

So many responses demonstrate a disgusting sense of entitlement from people more concerned about the "perfect Christmas" for themselves that is completely at odds with the spirit of the season. It might look perfect to them but it sure looks ugly to the rest of us.

Parents and in laws are annoying. They have been since the dawn of time. They're a different generation. Okay, baby boomers have a bit more of a reputation for being annoying than previous generations but it is what it is and people need to get over it.

Every Christmas my mother in law turns up, drinks 3 bottles of wine and spends the day explaining how older people are better off than us because they worked harder, that houses are not more expensive than when she was starting out, picking flaws in our decor and blathering on about how there's too much immigration. Unless you can learn to let that kind of nonsense wash over you and keep the peace, then you're never going to win. If you really want a good Christmas, then be the bigger person.

It sounds like you are your mother’s emotional spouse. You may have been too young to understand when it started, but she wasn’t. She knowingly manipulated and guilted you into that role. Your wife feels like your mother is the other woman because it’s true. You could have fixed everything years ago, but you chose not to. You let it get to the point where your wife has had enough. You are in danger of allowing your mother to ruin your marriage.

There is also the danger of your mother parentifying your child. She shouldn’t be alone with your child and you aren’t able to protect your child. This means the burden falls on your wife to protect her child, all while your mother is being nasty to her. Until you are capable of recognizing your mother’s bad behavior, calling it out in the moment and standing up to her, none of you should visit her, especially your vulnerable child.

I bet if you had a deeper discussion with your brother, you would learn that he didn’t cut contact with your mom over a few stray comments. It was probably the same death by a thousand paper cuts situation that your mother is inflicting on your wife. It also sounds like there is some favoritism towards you. You probably have more good memories with your mom than your brother, so it is easier for you to ignore her bad behaviors. As such, you need to realize that your wife doesn’t have any good memories with your mom to balance the bad. She just has years of criticism, boundary stomping and nastiness. She probably agrees to continue to suffer your mom because she still loves you.

You need to man up and set real boundaries with your mother. I don’t mean this insulting, but therapy would be a good option for you. You need to process the fact that your mother made you her emotional spouse and you need to heal from it. You need help becoming strong enough to set the necessary boundaries with your mother and not succumbing to her guilt trips.

It would probably be worthwhile to ask your wife if she is willing to do couple’s counseling with you after you’ve done some individual therapy. You need to prove to her that you have her back. You don’t have to understand how your mother makes her feel. You just have to believe her when she tells you that your mother has hurt her. Then you need to prove to your wife that you are willing and able to protect her and your child.

I feel for you being stuck in the middle, not nice. At the end of the day she’s your mum and you only get one. Can everyone imagine how mum feels. Isolated, cut off, left out, lonely, desperate to see grandchild. Yes she’s not perfect, who is. She shouldn’t have taken the baby but thought she was helping. A misguided mistake. What’s the crime in taking her a walk and showing her off to a friend. I would give them both a hard talking to. Tell mum she has a second chance and wipe the slate clean. And don’t mess up. Wife needs to Be open to trying again too. She needs think about your feelings. Let her come Christmas for an hour in the afternoon.
I have a sister in law who is like this and seen the pain she causes mum not seeing grand children. Makes you think you wouldn’t want to be that person causing pain. And why can’t you take the child to see mum in your own?

What is your brother doing for Christmas OP? Will he be alone?
Does your wife get along with him? Maybe he could come over for Christmas day.

He's an adult now. But he has been doing this since he was a young child.
He's been conditioned into believing that his role is managing his mother's emotions.

It is very very wrong to expect this from a young child. it is not remotely the same as your example of supporting your elderly mum when you are an adult yourself and choose to do it. OP, as a child, did not get a choice.

If a husband's said he didn't want his abusive MIL round his children, particuarly on Christmas Day, I don't think you would be getting universal LTBs.

And that's the whole crux of this thread. It's split between those who think that MIL is abusive (based mainly on her treatment of OP, and her treatment of the wife secondarily) and should be avoided, and those who think she's a slightly tactless lonely old lady and we should put up with annoyance for the sake of family.

I'll repeat my previous comment that I think OP would find therapy worthwhile. If for no other reason than to help him understand his own feelings and behaviours. He is virtually invisible between his wife and mother and seems unable to know what he thinks for himself.

"Yes someone quoted people's replies but substituted my wife for "my husband". It came across very differently indeed!"

@italianlondongirl yes I imagine it would come across very differently if a man had had issues with his MIL commenting on his breastfeeding and taking his newborn child away from him without telling him etc. What is it with posters that play this game without giving any thought to the fact that men and women are different and these situations cannot be compared?

The day that men can get pregnant and give birth and their MILs use that as an opportunity for weird power play then I'll agree with you. Do you not find it interesting that in so many cases these character traits seem to start or amplify in instances where women get pregnant or give birth? What is it about that very vulnerable and challenging moment in women's lives that seems to cause so many MILs to begin to try and increase their power or influence or quite frankly make things as difficult as possible for a new mother?

Some posters are deliberately ignoring the fact that this woman has alienated everyone else in her life including her other son. I don't see why the OP can't go and visit his mother without his wife though

Is there a reason you put all your effort into getting your wife to accept mil into her life and not into getting your brother to, he’s her child too? Your wife isn’t. I think your wife has made the right decision and you aren’t seeing clearly. Talk to your brother .

Brilliant reply.
I've read most of the thread and I have found this ti be a balanced and fair comment.

Great post. It's obvious that OP's mum ramped up her inappropriate behaviour when her DIL was at her most vulnerable, straight after childbirth.