Page 18 | Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

Unjeffeson · 2024-10-14T09:47:33+00:00

Background: My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her. Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her. Whats happened: My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this. Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard. What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up? And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

Teaortea · 14/10/2024 18:06

My view on the situation:

My mother is selfish and inconsiderate and isn't willing to back off when asked.

END OF.

There I fixed it for you op.

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:06

NovemberMorn · 14/10/2024 18:01

The OP also listed some of the things his wife does, which doesn't look very nice either.

My wife is being very hard-nosed about it all but I was never a new mother and don't know how much damage it has really done, so I have to take her at face value that my mother causes her mental health to suffer.
I also feel she makes ultimatum-like statements when we discuss this which are unkind when I am just trying to work through a problem.
I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.

TBH it sounds like the mother may have caused some issues when baby arrived which is far from ideal.

But her husband is also entitled to have his mental health needs met and he’s dealing with a woman who won’t compromise over dealing with his mother.

What would be ideal would be if you could both agree a way to deal with her that doesn’t involve your wife demanding that you support the boundaries she sets.

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 14/10/2024 18:08

TwigletsAndRadishes · 14/10/2024 18:05

Hmm. Sounds sensible in theory except try this for size:

I am another one who is team husband. You have entered a partnership with him and should put his views first. Everyone who lives in a house should be in agreement before anyone else comes to stay. If you backed your husband up more (when he criticised your mum) and he felt you had his back (when he criticised your mum) perhaps he'd be more inclined to help your mother.

Can you imagine the MN collective reaction if husbands who aren't especially fond of their MILs started banning them from visiting the house and dictating how often they can see their grandchildren?

Imagine the OP was a woman saying ....with my husband agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My husband has said hard no, he doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas.

Husband said Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Husband says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

(Then add for context that mum is so sad and lonely since we moved away, me and DD are her world. My dad got another woman pregnant and left us and my mum has never really moved on. )

Come on, now. There would be chorus of 'Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Who the hell does he think he is? Leave the controlling, abusive bastard. He's trying to isolate you from your support network.'

You know it.

Show quote history

I concur

italianlondongirl · 14/10/2024 18:09

@Comtesse
But the OP only sees his mother every couple of months and the "transgressions" were years ago.
It sounds like the wife has just never forgiven her.
The MIL sounds annoying and at times insensitive but the wife actually sounds cruel.
My mother is no saint, but it would be a sad Christmas day if my husband refused to allow her to spend it with us. How can he enjoy the day knowing his mother is on her own?

Elizo · 14/10/2024 18:10

TwigletsAndRadishes · 14/10/2024 18:05

Hmm. Sounds sensible in theory except try this for size:

I am another one who is team husband. You have entered a partnership with him and should put his views first. Everyone who lives in a house should be in agreement before anyone else comes to stay. If you backed your husband up more (when he criticised your mum) and he felt you had his back (when he criticised your mum) perhaps he'd be more inclined to help your mother.

Can you imagine the MN collective reaction if husbands who aren't especially fond of their MILs started banning them from visiting the house and dictating how often they can see their grandchildren?

Imagine the OP was a woman saying ....with my husband agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My husband has said hard no, he doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas.

Husband said Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Husband says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

(Then add for context that mum is so sad and lonely since we moved away, me and DD are her world. My dad got another woman pregnant and left us and my mum has never really moved on. )

Come on, now. There would be chorus of 'Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Who the hell does he think he is? Leave the controlling, abusive bastard. He's trying to isolate you from your support network.'

You know it.

Show quote history

Truth - I don’t think many women would have it! They’d be told to suck it up

Isthisit22 · 14/10/2024 18:10

@the7Vabo but what else is the wife supposed to do?
Shes clearly given MIL lots of chances and MIL rides roughshod over everyone else’s feelings and wishes. Therefore OP and wife have no choice but to have firm boundaries.
If Mil didn’t want to be alone on Christmas then she shouldn’t have driven everyone away in life and should behave better the rest of the year.

roses321 · 14/10/2024 18:11

My opinion: Sit down, talk to your wife and ask your wife what has really happened for her in this whole ordeal.

Do NOT make it about you or your mother. Just listen to your wife.

Tell your wife you completely understand and that you do not agree with what your mother did (because let's hope you actually dont' agree).

Your mother needs to be accountable for how she has made your wife feel, if she cannot be accountable and genuinely apologise and make good with your wife, and know her place in relation to your daughter, then no she cannot come at Christmas. If she can genuinely level with your wife and listen and apologise for how she made her feel disrespected and in competition with her then I think that it could actually fix the relationship and build something.

Both parties have to be willing on this. If they aren't then you're unfortunately piggy in the middle.

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:17

Isthisit22 · 14/10/2024 18:10

@the7Vabo but what else is the wife supposed to do?
Shes clearly given MIL lots of chances and MIL rides roughshod over everyone else’s feelings and wishes. Therefore OP and wife have no choice but to have firm boundaries.
If Mil didn’t want to be alone on Christmas then she shouldn’t have driven everyone away in life and should behave better the rest of the year.

I don’t think it’s clear at all that the wife has “given the MiL” lots of chances. She just doesn’t like her. One of the things she found annoying was her MIL talking about how her husband not only left her but got someone else pregnant.

The wife sounds well able to roughshod over people’s wishes herself.

Bohomovies · 14/10/2024 18:19

I agree with a PP that you need to listen to your wife's feelings on this, and see what she has to say about it. Mother in laws can get very jealous of the DILs. My MIL is jealous of me (because I'm with her perfect son), and my husband can't (or won't) see it.
I wish my husband would sit me down, ask me my side of the story and listen to what I have to say. But most men with overbearing MILs have been brainwashed over many years and they can't see the truth.

Opentooffers · 14/10/2024 18:20

How far exactly did you move away from your mother? Once every 2 months for a few hours is quite stingy, but it sounds like that is a reaction to how she was just after your wife gave birth. Have you told your mother that she needs to stop and think without speaking, that advice is not wanted unless asked for and she needs to hold her tongue? There is no point trying to pacify both sides. You need to be strong in this on both sides. Your mother needs to agree to reign her unwanted opinions in and in return your wife needs to accept that 2 months is BU. If your wife won't budge, then can you travel with your DC to see her in between the 2 monthly visits?
As far as Xmas goes, the way to make it less painful is to host to many to dilute her presence, so can your wife's relatives come over for Xmas or friends etc?
Failing that, could your DM go to others so she is not alone and perhaps come boxing day?

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:25

TwigletsAndRadishes · 14/10/2024 18:05

Hmm. Sounds sensible in theory except try this for size:

I am another one who is team husband. You have entered a partnership with him and should put his views first. Everyone who lives in a house should be in agreement before anyone else comes to stay. If you backed your husband up more (when he criticised your mum) and he felt you had his back (when he criticised your mum) perhaps he'd be more inclined to help your mother.

Can you imagine the MN collective reaction if husbands who aren't especially fond of their MILs started banning them from visiting the house and dictating how often they can see their grandchildren?

Imagine the OP was a woman saying ....with my husband agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My husband has said hard no, he doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas.

Husband said Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Husband says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

(Then add for context that mum is so sad and lonely since we moved away, me and DD are her world. My dad got another woman pregnant and left us and my mum has never really moved on. )

Come on, now. There would be chorus of 'Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Who the hell does he think he is? Leave the controlling, abusive bastard. He's trying to isolate you from your support network.'

You know it.

Show quote history

You win best point I’ve ever read on Mumsnet.

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:29

italianlondongirl · 14/10/2024 18:09

@Comtesse
But the OP only sees his mother every couple of months and the "transgressions" were years ago.
It sounds like the wife has just never forgiven her.
The MIL sounds annoying and at times insensitive but the wife actually sounds cruel.
My mother is no saint, but it would be a sad Christmas day if my husband refused to allow her to spend it with us. How can he enjoy the day knowing his mother is on her own?

The MIL sounds like a proper pain, but she also sounds like a rambling, older woman who puts her foot in it.

The wife sounds OTT, demanding and lacking in empathy.

I have zero doubt my mother has offended my husband at times. If he told me she couldn’t come for Christmas or that she could only see our kids every two months I’d tell him to F off.

HappyintheHills · 14/10/2024 18:35

Unjeffeson · 14/10/2024 12:06

Thank you everyone for all the messages. There are a lot, very quickly, but I'll try and address the main points.

Examples of mother being awful, in wife's opinion (and not good IMO either):

Outburst in car 3 years ago about how we moved to an area of our choice rather than thinking about being nearer to her
Long conversation about how awful my dad (her ex) was / is and how she's a victim (dad did leave due to getting someone else pregnant, but him and I are on good terms now)
Inconsiderate comments when wife was struggling to breastfeed, about how it was easy for her. Similar comments about other aspects of baby rearing.
Argument with wife about how she just wants to be part of our lives and feels like she's being pushed out
Taking baby downstairs without asking wife's permission when she was recovering from birth
Taking baby to a friend's house when left to look after her rather than getting her to nap quietly
Pushing for more visiting time (asking for weekends away etc) even though we've said we can do once every couple of months.
Hassling my brother to exercise and commenting on his weight (brother won't see her now because of this and many other things, he says)

Wife and her have barely interacted for over a year now, bar pleasantries. Damage is apparently done, wife has explicitly stated that she has no interest in improving the relationship ("people like her are toxic forever").

My view on the situation:

My mother is selfish and inconsiderate and isn't willing to back off when asked.
She lets her feelings get the better of her and suffers from verbal diahorrea which leads to thoughtless comments.
She was very loving and caring when bringing me up and is always offering to help.
She makes me feel I'm the only one with a key to her happiness as 'family is everything'.
I resent the fact she never made more effort to move on from my dad and I am effectively her emotional support. Perhaps I have enabled this but it's just kind of happened since I was too young to know not to.
My wife is being very hard-nosed about it all but I was never a new mother and don't know how much damage it has really done, so I have to take her at face value that my mother causes her mental health to suffer.
I also feel she makes ultimatum-like statements when we discuss this which are unkind when I am just trying to work through a problem.
I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.
I don't care what happens to me, I just want a compromise that everyone can make peace with and doesn't affect my daughter's happiness (ie doesn't break up my family - I was a child of divorce and I don't ever want that for her).

Your mother twice took your DD without permission?
Twice??
It was your responsibility to put a stop to that when she took her downstairs.
Has she ever apologised? Shown any contrition?

QuickMember · 14/10/2024 18:37

Birdscratch · 14/10/2024 12:25

Ah. Just seen your update.

So your mother has

caused her son to cut her off

Hassling my brother to exercise and commenting on his weight (brother won't see her now because of this and many other things, he says)

made you responsible for her emotional well being

Outburst in car 3 years ago about how we moved to an area of our choice rather than thinking about being nearer to her
She makes me feel I'm the only one with a key to her happiness as 'family is everything'.
I resent the fact she never made more effort to move on from my dad and I am effectively her emotional support. Perhaps I have enabled this but it's just kind of happened since I was too young to know not to.

refused to respect other people’s boundaries

Hassling my brother … as above
Taking baby to a friend's house when left to look after her rather than getting her to nap quietly
Pushing for more visiting time (asking for weekends away etc) even though we've said we can do once every couple of months.

You know that the issue is your mother but she makes it so draining on you - the calls, the pushing, the guilt - when she doesn’t get her way that it’s easier to go with the flow.

You’ve said I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation. Your brother, who had a lifetime of your mother, gave up and walked away. You know that whatever boundaries you set she will keep pushing. Whatever you or your wife do, however often you see her, it won’t ever be enough. So, realistically, what is it that you think your wife can do to ‘improve’ the situation? Or is it that you feel if she gives slightly it will ease the pressure your mother is putting on you?

This.

NovemberMorn · 14/10/2024 18:38

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:06

TBH it sounds like the mother may have caused some issues when baby arrived which is far from ideal.

But her husband is also entitled to have his mental health needs met and he’s dealing with a woman who won’t compromise over dealing with his mother.

What would be ideal would be if you could both agree a way to deal with her that doesn’t involve your wife demanding that you support the boundaries she sets.

Show quote history

I wonder what the mental health issues are that the wife is claiming the MIL caused???
Women are sensitive when they are pregnant and give birth, and a careless comment or action can hurt, but blimey, three years down the line is a bit long to be holding such a grudge.

It seems on here people want to side with one or the other.
I think I would be standing in the husbands corner, and advising him to carry on his and his daughters relationship with his mother, not necessarily including the wife as she feels so strongly about it.

Katypp · 14/10/2024 18:40

HappyintheHills · 14/10/2024 18:35

Your mother twice took your DD without permission?
Twice??
It was your responsibility to put a stop to that when she took her downstairs.
Has she ever apologised? Shown any contrition?

Show quote history

I am sorry to say that it's drama like this that separates generations.
It honestly would not even come on my radar if my mum or MIL took the baby downstairs when they were at my house.
I would honestly regard it as they were trying to do me a favour and give me a break.
This obsession of being clamped to the baby 24/7 is a very new thing and the MIL was probably not even aware she was doing anything 'wrong'.

diddl · 14/10/2024 18:40

How do you expect your wife to improve the situation?

By improving your mother??

ReadingSoManyThreads · 14/10/2024 18:42

I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.

Can you hear yourself? Your mother pushed boundaries when your wife was vulnerable being post-partum. She's even pissed her own son off enough that he doesn't speak with her anymore. Why are you not liking that your wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation that YOUR mother has caused? That statement, along with others you've made show that you care more about your mum than you do your own wife.

I've been in your wife's situation, and I have zero relationship with my MIL, my children have zero relationship with her too because whilst my children are minors, I will not let them be exposed to toxic people!

I've also been your daughter, with my Dad's mum making catty remarks and sniping at my mother every single week that we saw her. She spent every Christmas Day with us and it was a misery.

If you love your wife, have her back and stop letting yourself be manipulated by your mother. You're a grown ass man now, not a little boy, enforce the boundaries that are needed and protect your own family unit.

#TeamWife

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:43

Katypp · 14/10/2024 18:40

I am sorry to say that it's drama like this that separates generations.
It honestly would not even come on my radar if my mum or MIL took the baby downstairs when they were at my house.
I would honestly regard it as they were trying to do me a favour and give me a break.
This obsession of being clamped to the baby 24/7 is a very new thing and the MIL was probably not even aware she was doing anything 'wrong'.

Show quote history

100%

When our mothers had babies the nurses took the babies away to give the mother a break.

Birdscratch · 14/10/2024 18:44

How old do you think this woman is??? She could easily be in her late 50s.

Growlybear83 · 14/10/2024 18:47

Birdscratch · 14/10/2024 18:44

How old do you think this woman is??? She could easily be in her late 50s.

She could also easily be in her 80s. No-one knows because the OP has been quite sparing with the information he's given.

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:51

Growlybear83 · 14/10/2024 18:47

She could also easily be in her 80s. No-one knows because the OP has been quite sparing with the information he's given.

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Unless she took the child off like Gollum the whole thing seems OTT. Even if the DIL had been annoyed at the time ok, but for it to still be on her lists of sins seems disproportionate and wanting to find fault.

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:56

ReadingSoManyThreads · 14/10/2024 18:42

I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.

Can you hear yourself? Your mother pushed boundaries when your wife was vulnerable being post-partum. She's even pissed her own son off enough that he doesn't speak with her anymore. Why are you not liking that your wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation that YOUR mother has caused? That statement, along with others you've made show that you care more about your mum than you do your own wife.

I've been in your wife's situation, and I have zero relationship with my MIL, my children have zero relationship with her too because whilst my children are minors, I will not let them be exposed to toxic people!

I've also been your daughter, with my Dad's mum making catty remarks and sniping at my mother every single week that we saw her. She spent every Christmas Day with us and it was a misery.

If you love your wife, have her back and stop letting yourself be manipulated by your mother. You're a grown ass man now, not a little boy, enforce the boundaries that are needed and protect your own family unit.

#TeamWife

Is he not allowed to also love his mother? By his own account she was a good mother.

Snorlaxo · 14/10/2024 19:02

the7Vabo · 14/10/2024 18:43

100%

When our mothers had babies the nurses took the babies away to give the mother a break.

Show quote history

I gave birth in a country where newborns are taken to the nursery for bursts and the midwives asked every single time before taking the baby.

HappyintheHills · 14/10/2024 19:02

Katypp · 14/10/2024 18:40

I am sorry to say that it's drama like this that separates generations.
It honestly would not even come on my radar if my mum or MIL took the baby downstairs when they were at my house.
I would honestly regard it as they were trying to do me a favour and give me a break.
This obsession of being clamped to the baby 24/7 is a very new thing and the MIL was probably not even aware she was doing anything 'wrong'.

Show quote history

Which is why OP should spoken to his mother when his DW raised this issue.