Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

This is what I was trying to say only you have put it so much better.

We have this idea that we are entitled to perfect experiences just as we want them. The kind of “she’s not going to ruin MY Christmas” attitude.

If my husband wanted his mother at my Christmas table she’d be there even if I had to grit my teeth.

Sure, but if you felt so strongly about something so minor you have to wonder whether you are finding things to be annoyed about

The OP feels his wife is sees his mother as the other woman, limits contacted to their child to once every two months and has told him his mother can’t come for Christmas because they need to establish “boundaries“ when they alternative is her being alone.

His wife seems well able to demand priority frankly.

I knew someone one would pick up on that and find fault with it. I just knew it.

The wife wouldn't 'miss' her DD on Christmas Day. She'd just get a couple of hours to herself to do whatever needs doing, like, for example, preparing the dinner in peace while her husband takes the DD to visit her grandma for a couple of hours. Or have a long bath and a glass of champagne. She gets to be with her DD first thing when she opens her presents, then she gets to be with her for the rest of the day and the evening, including the Christmas Dinner she probably made, with or without help, in 90% of households without anyone needing to be outraged by it, or perhaps the pizza she's thrown at the oven if she resents being expected to prepare a few parsnips by herself while her husband is out. Whatever.

The point is, it's a solution and a compromise that only someone determined to see the MIL suffer and be alone on Christmas Day would not see the benefit of. So that tells me exactly what kind of person you are.

Def hard OP. However I’m with team wife on this.

I don’t see your mum changing, and nor does your wife. You’re in a no win situation and I feel sorry for you.

lots of good advice on here, I hope you work it out.

Maybe they have learned their behaviour off their dad?

This is a complex one.
Some of your mother's sins, on your wife's list, are nothing. Having a melt down about her exH? Nothing. This does not speak well of your DW, by the way....
Taking the baby to a friend's house while baby sitting, I see no issue here, at least the friend is known to keep a messy home, ill with something contagious, heavy smoker or anything along those lines?
Taking new born downstairs and commenting on easy breastfeeding in front of a new mum is insensitive indeed. Hormones are high at that point and you need to care for the new mum. She will not appreciate anyone taking her baby away at this point. I think your mother needs to apologise about this and respect your wife's boundaries.
Your wife is doing wrong to give you ultimatums on her or me fashion. If she feels so strongly, she should just tell you to go visit with DD. But not to flipping choose!

Maybe Christmas is not the time to sort this.
Just chose a day before or after.

Talk to your wife and demand that she puts some effort to make amends with your mother.
Same with your mother. That she needs to
Take them out for a cup of coffee, maybe on a play centre. So your child is around too. Brief. Easy. Little steps. And see if it gets any better.

Best luck OP.

I suspect that MIL hasn't actually been informed of what she's done to upset the wife. Maybe she's just trying to talk about her feelings and dissatisfaction that she sees very little of her son and his family. It's not unreasonable to express these views with a view to trying to improve things. It's not necessarily manipulative to do this
Really, Although mil sounds irritating at times, it feels to me as though it's been blown up out of proportion- these things have happened over a long period of time.
At the end of the day, she's family, and we all have to tolerate stuff from time to time with our in-laws that we would prefer not to, and tolerate people we don't particularly like. Just let those comments go over your shoulder, or take the issue up at the time in a calm and reasonable way.
I think it's mean and nasty to let MIL be home on her own over Christmas. No wonder she's feeling depressed!

If your brother, her own son, won’t speak to your Mum then can’t you see that the problem is her?
Are you going to let her break up your marriage too?
Clearly your Mum is for ever pushing boundaries eg asking to see you on Christmas Day is absurd when she knows that you’re low contact.
Hold firm to the boundaries that you’ve put in place- seeing her every month or so and seeing her on another day round Christmas are perfectly reasonable compromises.
If you don’t stop being guilted by your Mum and stop bothering your wife with all her unreasonable requests, then your marriage will break down. Do you want to be left with just your Mum?

I really agree with this. Crack open the wine and crack on. I wouldn’t be keen on any family member being alone unless through choice.

The fault in this post is expecting people to actually do that** C word.

The MIL is saying she feels she is being pushed out of their lives because she is being pushed out of their lives.

Yes, some of her behaviour was inappropriate, and she sounds like work. She also sounds like someone who hasn’t had it easy in life and is currently very lonely.

You think its a bad thing I picked up on your attributing wife work to the dw, while op and his dd saunter off to his dms leaving her alone with all the work of Christmas dinner in her own?

It isn’t absurd for a mother to ask her son to have her for Christmas when she lives alone.

“Low contact” makes it sound like a prison visit.

What unreasonable requests?! To see her son & grandchild more than a few hours every 8 weeks.

To dare talk about how it upset her that her husband got someone else pregnant?!

But then again if your entire Christmas dinner @twigletsandradishes Really does consist of nothing other than 'a few parsnips' I can see why you think its a simple task, a bloody miserable meal, but simple!

I wondered all that too.

I also wonder, op, what your wife's family is like, particularly her mother if she has one. People tend to put up with their own more than their in-laws.

My in laws can be pretty unpleasant but I can suck it up enough to spend a couple of hours with them at Christmas for the sake of my husband and children. However after years of being pushed and pushed i will absolutely not spend any amount of time with my step mother under any circumstances even if that means never spending Christmas with my father again. So I guess your mum has crossed the line of no return and though I understand this puts you in a tuff position I suggest you re-evaluate your mother's behaviour and have your wife's back because we don't cut people off lightly.

Well, this depends. She has every right to be upset about her husband getting some else pregnant, but if she's weaponised this to control her son and make him feel guilty about his relationship with his dad, then that may be one of the reasons that the DIL and the other brother want nothing to do with her. Just speculating. But from what the OP has said, this scenario seems likely.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Did you read the bit where her other son doesn’t speak to her?
The OP is low contact with his Mum as he only visits her infrequently due to his Mum’s poor behaviour as acknowledged in his post listing the things she’d done.
Please read people’s posts probably before all the faux outrage

So does the wife

I read all the OP’s posts and have already commented on the brother if you care to read it!

The OP visits his mother infrequently because that if what his wife wants based on her view of his mother’s past behaviour which includes talking about her ex husband.

I’m sure the mother is no picnic but maybe we won’t all be perfect old ladies and MILs either.

I think leaving an older person alone at Christmas is a drastic action, but maybe it’s the Irish in me.

The OP also listed some of the things his wife does, which doesn't look very nice either.

• My wife is being very hard-nosed about it all but I was never a new mother and don't know how much damage it has really done, so I have to take her at face value that my mother causes her mental health to suffer.
• I also feel she makes ultimatum-like statements when we discuss this which are unkind when I am just trying to work through a problem.
• I don't like that my wife is unprepared to attempt to improve the situation.

I’m not sure about awful but the wife sounds somewhat self-involved, reactionary, judgemental and unwilling to compromise.

If my husband told me that I make him feel like his mother is the other woman, I’d feel I need to reflect on my actions.

Your update shows that your mother is overbearing and your wife has understandably had enough.

She had probably had enough for a while before she spoke up and then reduced contact with her.

It must be hard for her to forgive nasty jabs about her parenting a newborn. The demands to take your DD away on her own is really odd, too. Your mother needs to accept no and stop pushing.

I suspect if you tried to reason with your mother and get her to accept some responsibility and change her ways she would get super emotional and then feign illness to guilt you into submission. So best to just visit her on your own with DD every couple of weeks.

Also worth looking into FOG - fear, obligation, guilt, as a concept. It may give you a different perspective on the dynamics your mother has created.

Hmm. Sounds sensible in theory except try this for size:

I am another one who is team husband. You have entered a partnership with him and should put his views first. Everyone who lives in a house should be in agreement before anyone else comes to stay. If you backed your husband up more (when he criticised your mum) and he felt you had his back (when he criticised your mum) perhaps he'd be more inclined to help your mother.

Can you imagine the MN collective reaction if husbands who aren't especially fond of their MILs started banning them from visiting the house and dictating how often they can see their grandchildren?

Imagine the OP was a woman saying ....with my husband agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My husband has said hard no, he doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas.

Husband said Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Husband says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

(Then add for context that mum is so sad and lonely since we moved away, me and DD are her world. My dad got another woman pregnant and left us and my mum has never really moved on. )

Come on, now. There would be chorus of 'Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Who the hell does he think he is? Leave the controlling, abusive bastard. He's trying to isolate you from your support network.'

You know it.