Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

My mother did this too. When I breastfed and my nipples would bleed and I would cry she used to say “you’re such a wimp! I didn’t find it hard at all!”. Similar “plenty of milk” comments.

To be fair I've seen plenty of comments on MN along the lines of 'My mother/MIL constantly tried to undermine my attempts to BF. When I was really struggling she told me to give up and give the baby a bottle, saying he's sleep better and I'd be happier. Telling me it doesn't make you less of a mother, it doesn't make you a failure. It's silly making yourself so stressed over BFing. No-one gives you a medal for it' etc, etc.

I think that where new mums are concerned, you can't win no matter what you say. They are so over sensitive, so emotional due to surging hormones, dog tired, desperate to get everything perfect but always worried that they fall short somehow. You can pretty much guarantee that whatever you say or do, it will probably be taken the wrong way, judged as either too much or too little intervention, and will probably be held against you years later.

Obviously your mum calling you a wimp was not kind, but some of things that I hear new mums complaining about on here, I can't help feeling really feel sorry for their relatives, who are usually just trying to help, and can't do or say anything right.

I think the mother isn't that bad, and it astonishes me how some men willing sign away all agency and their status as an EQUAL parent to their child just because their wife throws a strop. OP, you are just as much your child's parent as your wife is and you don't need her permission to do anything regarding your child and their grandmother's relationship

a lot of people are on their own cos its such an excluding holiday. its sad but no one dies

In response to your initial post, yes, I have an MIL so unbearable that I do not want to be around her & limit my contact with her. She is toxic and manipulative. Most of her behaviour affects DH rather than me, but I love DH and hate to see how her behaviour affects him. Just as a few examples she has lied about having cancer, being broken into etc - DH has anxiety but is always the first to receive a call with her latest tall tales. Similar to an example by a PP she cried when he moved out to live with me, and similar to your DB she criticises his weight & pokes his belly. There is zero affection (she never hugs any of her children or tells them that she loves them). She criticises my two SILs to us, and I am sure that she does exactly the same with me to them. She is a piece of work.

I would not stop her coming for Christmas Day if she was alone and miserable… but that is a me problem, not necessarily the best or “right” choice. I can tell you that the days where I have spent Christmas or other special occasions with her have been miserable ones for me, and completely ruined them. I don’t see where you’ve considered the impact on your wife if you agree to her being there(?), but the likelihood based on everything you’ve told us is that she’ll have a miserable time. So I guess what you’re actually asking is: “Should I capitulate to my mother and make my wife miserable, or should I do what is best for the family I have chosen?”

You say that you don’t like that your wife is unprepared to improve the situation. What do you expect her to do to improve things? I have been with DH for 8 years now. For the first 5 years I went to great lengths to make MIL feel considered and loved - I helped her with all her household admin (once for nearly the entirety of my birthday), bought her thoughtful gifts, suggested days out, helped her with household tasks (she’s a fit and healthy 70 yo, but acts helpless). We took care packages over during COVID and baked for her. None of these things went even a small way toward building a relationship or improving her behaviour. This was difficult for me as I am very close to my own family, and had hoped she would become an extended part of that. But it is her personality, and she will never change.

I am curious as to how and why you expect your wife to fix your mother’s behaviour…

Your child has 2 parents so you can take her round to see your mum at Christmas or another time, but tbh, from your update, your mum sounds like the issue, crying about you moving, banging on about your wife having issues bf, quite the last thing a new mum who's exhausted needs! Perhaps if your mum apologised for the extensive list you've written, that might mitigate your wife's feelings about her?

@thepariscrimefiles I don't consider I'm a martyr at all but I do like to think I have a little compassion and humanity. My mother in law used to come to us on Christmas Day for six hours - I had to spend six hours out of 8,760 hours in the year under the same roof as her. Do you seriously think that is martyring myself? Because I don't. My daughter didn't know about many of the things that my mother in law had done, and still doesn't. While she didn't particularly like my MIL, it certainly didn't spoil the day for her.

I don't deny the OP's mum has made insensitive comments and sounds quite unpleasant, but I don't think anything that has been mentioned would justify an elderly woman being left on her own on Christmas Day. I think for his wife to refuse to have her child's grandparent in the house for a few hours on Christmas Day is really despicable.

This is one of those threads that makes me feel so thankful that I live in a very different world to many of the cold, callous, and dispassionate people who post on Mumsnet.

@TwigletsAndRadishes If your mum is reasonably local then you could visit for a couple of hours on Christmas morning while your wife gets the lunch/dinner ready.
That'll go down well
"Yes darling, you'll get to miss our dd on Christmas day while I take her to my mother who dislikes you... be a good wife worker and make sure you have the food ready for us coming back, there's a dear....."

This is a really very good post.

OP I hope you can take this in. If you reframe the situation and focus on your relationship with your wife and child I think you will have more success with your marriage than your father did. And I know this is important to you.

You chose to marry and have your precious child with your wife. She chose you! Do everything you can to put her snd your child first, to care for them snd comfort them.

Your mother had her chance: her marriage failed and she neither tried again nor learned to be social and self sufficient. If your marriage ended would you expect your daughter to become your little mini wife and dance attendance on you for the rest of her life? surely not.

@Unjeffeson sorry but I am team wife!! she is the one who is looking after the baby. remember, the baby the both she and you made together? your mother had nothing to do with it any after her interfering and everything she did when baby was small, she does not deserve a second chance! as for inviting herself for christmas day? say no more!

Of all days, your wife shouldn't have to dread her visit on Christmas day.

I think you need to tell your mum what you've written here: she can't rely on you for emotional support exclusively.
Tell her behaviour has natural consequences and be clear: her interference, criticism and lack of self-awareness / willingness to apologise need addressing before she can expect to move forward.

But as others have mentioned, I'm not sure why you can't take your dc to see her once a month. Maybe Christmas Eve for a couple of hours?

Blimey your mum sounds hard work Op!

Don't forget you're used to it.

Seems your mum can't even bother to be polite/civil.

That's how little she thinks of the person you married.

She can't make an effort even for your sake!

Your wife has a right to not like your mum , she doesn't have to see her ,but she can't stop you spending some quality time with her . No one on here can judge what is fair , and who is to blame but if she was a good mum to you and you love her then you have to put some boundries as well , your feelings matter too.

The most interesting part of this thread to me is just HOW much we have to say on this!! Myself included!! I actually have sooooo much more to say!
OP , you could learn a lot here re 'how a woman/wife thinks!' Lol!!

I think calling OP's wife despicable is over the top and dramatic. The insensitive comments and unpleasant behaviour ramped up when OP's wife was post-partum, which is one of the most vulnerable times in a woman's life. The boundaries that OP's wife has set are the result of those actions.

All your compassion is for OP's mum being alone on Christmas Day. Lots of really kind and compassionate people spend Christmas Day alone through no fault of their own, maybe due to bereavement or distance from family. OP is not welcome in either of her son's homes for Christmas, entirely due to her own actions. Surely if she was just a rather blunt and tactless person who hurt her DIL's feeling by accident, she would have immediately apologised at the time.

She is suffering the consequences of her own actions.

I am another one who is team wife. You have entered a partnership with your wife and should put her views first. Everyone who lives in a house should be in agreement before anyone else comes to stay. If you backed your wife up more and she felt you had her back perhaps she would be more inclined to help your mother.

Although the women/wives on here aren't all in agreement and saying the same thing.

Anonymouseposter

Agreed , I see that too :)

There’s often an interesting shift in dynamics that happens when a mother’s son has a baby - I think many MILs who are used to being the family matriarch can feel usurped by their DIL becoming a mother, and attempt to re-assert their lost power over their son by being overbearing and know-it-all. I had a similar issue with both PIL but thankfully it has eased now DC are older. But I did have a very difficult relationship with DH until he learned to put boundaries in place. As much as I’m sure you love your mother OP, it’s healthy and right to put the needs of your immediate family first. That said, Christmas is such an emotive time of year - perhaps you can agree to a compromise with your wife, say inviting your mother for 1 hour in the evening?

It’s death by 1000 papercuts. Flying just enough under the radar that if she would be called out on one particular incident, she would be able to explain it away, but it’s the constant intentional snide comments, tutting, deliberately breaking boundaries, etc. The one that my MIL did which got under my skin the most was taking my cup of tea and pouting it down the sink. Then five seconds later, breezily saying, “Oh, you weren’t still drinking that, we’re you?” She knew I was drinking it—it had just been made; a point was being made to make me feel unwanted and to put me in my place.
Or walking onto my brand-new cream carpet with her shoes and breezily saying “Ooh, I should probably take my shoes off!”
Then shrugging and keeping them on (meanwhile, she stands at the front door at her house with a basket for us to put our shoes in). Again—point made and message received loud and clear. It’s the breezy pleading of ignorance, yet continuing to do the deliberate action whilst shrugging it off.

Taking a different tack - how do you think your mother would behave if she were to be invited for Christmas?
Would she:
criticise anything she saw as being down to your wife ie the food, the decorations, your child’s gifts or behaviour.
belittle your wife/make jibes.
Expect to be waited on/run around after.
Moan about your DB not being present/about how unfair her life is/about how you don’t treat her right.
Would she consciously or unconsciously ruin the day?

You don’t mention how she is with your DD - this a key piece of information. I suspect given how limited the contact is with her, that her behaviour towards DD isn’t very healthy so your wife seeks to limit her influence?

Team Wife here.

Your mother sounds terrible and unfortunately you reap want you sow. If she wanted to be included in family activities then she shouldn’t have been such a nasty cow.

She wouldn’t be coming to mine for Xmas.

They both sound headstrong and the wife somewhat manipulative.
No son should have to choose between his wife or his mother, not unless one is a complete harridan, and his mum sounds more lonely than anything else.

I really don't blame the wife if she has really taken against her MIL, but she should not be putting her son in the middle and using the daughter as a bargaining tool....because that's what it seems like.

@thepariscrimefiles Yes I realise that many people are alone on Christmas Day through no fault for their own, and I feel sad for all of them. However, I don't agree that the mother in law's comments were bad enough to warrant the OP's wife taking this approach. I think the OP's brother is every bit as despicable as his wife for leaving his mother on her own on Christmas Day. But if people can live with treating their close family members like that, nothing anyone else can say will make a difference to people like that. I assume that at such time as the OP's mother dies, his wife will also want as little to do with any inheritance that may come their way as she has with her mother in law while she was alive.

It just sounds awful. Why can she only see your daughter every couple of months, can you not see her more regularly without your wife? What about Boxing Day or Christmas Eve. Personally I would not want to leave my mum alone…

I agree @PicturePlace but this is Mumsnet, you are a woman (I assume) and OP is a man.

I am pretty sure that if OP was a woman complaining that her DH would not allow her mum in the house at Christmas, responses would be a little different.