Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

That's a lovely idea but doesn't work with the type of personality who has framed themself as a permanent victim in life. They are living in a fairytale (albeit a fairly unpleasant one) of their own creation, and nobody external can do anything to change that. People can't be reasoned out of having disordered personalities. Which makes it incredibly difficult for the families of those people (yep, speaking from first hand experience here). The OP's mum may or may not have a personality disorder, but her lifetime of ingrained negative behaviour towards others, coupled with the fact she sees herself as a victim, means that she's never going to be able to communicate why she is being hurtful. People with that victim mentality NEVER take responsibility for anything, and they use flying monkeys (like the OP) to validate and confirm their world view, and attempt to push out those (like the OP's wife) who won't do this.

And has your mum behaved like OP's mum has?
I am guessing not.

And my answers would be exactly the same to a woman posting this. I don't think wanting to keep your children away from hurtful family members is coercive control

"Your poor mum! I'm not sure why everyone has decided that your mum must be awfuland your DW entirely reasonable."

@Imfatman maybe the fact that the OP has a brother who no longer speaks to his mum either? That makes it clear there is a pattern of behaviour here, especially with the OP admitting that his mum is difficult and insensitive, but instead of working to speak to his mum about her behaviour he is expecting his wife to just suck it up.

@pikkumyy77 this is a such a good analysis!! I feel this is exactly the dynamic of my partner and his mother

You don't like that your wife is unprepared to work on things with your mother...

But have you EVER even raised any of this shit with your mother? Is she prepared to behave and stop being vile, rude, inconsiderate, manipulative etc etc?

It reads like you haven't the balls to tell your Mother to behave, and visibly have your wifes back.

It is very likely that your Mother blames your wife entirely for the lack of contact, and hasn't a clue that you are as responsible for this as your wife, and that it is Mothers behaviour that is at the root of it, because you haven't actually made that clear to her!

@redskydarknight My mother in law behaved far far worse than anything the OP has mentioned. I would never have tried to suggest that my husband shouldn't take our daughter to see her regularly, and he visited every fortnight. I saw her once a year when she came to us on Christmas Day, and for just a few hours, I was able to keep my thoughts to myself, ignore all the nasty comments and memories, and get on with making the day as nice as it could be for everyone.

It’s difficult being in the middle and please the two. What would you really like to do on Christmas Day?

if you want to see your mum, then I would just take your daughter with you for a few hours regardless of what your wife thinks.

Sounds like you need to assert boundaries with both and not have to play peacemaker all the time.

@80s oh what a witty response 👌🏽 only the OPs brother (who he said doesn't even speak to his mother) could possibly think that this man's wife sounds like a complete and utter maniac. Meanwhile.. in the real world... if you are a capable normal adult and someone (MIL or whoever) over steps boundaries when you have a new born you just articulate your problem and draw a line under it. "Yeah sorry x but just because you found it easy to breastfeed, doesn't mean I do we aren't all the same are we?". And that's it. You don't carry a grudge and purposefully erode the relationship between your husband and his own mother who by the sounds of it hasn't really done anything that bad. So she took the kid to a friend's house, so what? You left the kid with her, presumably you didn't pay her. So she trusted her enough to accept free childcare and then got angry because she did what lots of new grandmas do and took baby to a friends house to show her off for abit. I'm assuming the baby wasn't harmed? FFS I don't understand why people who are so fragile keep having children. No wonder nobody can cope with life anymore with such weak parents as their examples. Man up OP - you don't owe your wife loyalty over your mother. You are supposed to do the right thing regardless of what anyone else thinks and you know that the right thing isn't letting your wife dictate the terms over when you can see your own mother. If you want to see her on Christmas Day you tell your wife you are popping over for a few hours and hope you don't get back to see the family pet on the stove.

But this is an issue OP has generated from being so passive! He has caused so much of this.

When mum has been overbearing etc HE needs to tell her to back off. "No mum, you NEVER take a newborn away from mum without express permission", "No mum, don't make those comments, they are unkind." "No mum, we are adults and can move where we want". "No mum you can't see us more often. We have lots of other people to see as well and need some family time". Had OP put boundaries in place his wife wouldn't have needed to. Instead OP sits silently listening to his mum berate his wife as raising their child wrong then sticking up for his mum later!

When she asks to see you, does OP say they're busy or does he say wife says no or I'll ask wife. I would guess the latter. He has made a MIL vs wife narrative with his actions and now is all "Oh no, they don't get on". Your brother has stuck up for his family. Your mum is common denominator. Start sticking up for your wife or you won't have one for long.

Your Mother is AWFUL

She is NOT your responsibility

Your wife and child ARE your responsibility

Go with what your wife wants in 2024

For 2025 tell your Mother to sort herself out or YOU AND YOUR CHILD will go nc with her

End of

OP, there is no “working through to find a solution”. This is it. You’ve reached the end of the line. Your mum’s behaviour is completely unreasonable and the majority of people would not be willing to put up with it. Your wife has had enough and is no longer willing to put up with it. Your mum’s behaviour is not going to change so your wife has found her solution.

Your mum uses emotional blackmail to keep you in line. She doesn’t need to get over your dad as she uses you as an emotional crutch. She does not respect boundaries (just LOOK at the list of things she’s done! You may not be aware of what it feels like being a mum to a newborn, but your instincts are super heightened and anyone removing a newborn from their mum is cruel. I remember being in the room with my husband and MIL changing our newborns and when one of them started crying I had to physically stop myself from pushing my husband and MIL out of the way to get to my baby. It’s that strong and basic). When anyone comes to Mumsnet looking for advice on how to deal with someone constantly trashing boundaries, they are given the same advice. Grey rock, go low contact, enforce your boundaries ie exactly what your wife has done. Your boundaries don’t require anyone to do anything. They are independent of what anyone else does. Your wife does not need (and knows it won’t happen) your mum to behave differently. She can however decide not to endure the behaviour that causes so much upset.

Your mum isn’t going to change and your wife isn’t going to endure your mum’s behaviour. That’s it. What happens next comes down to how much each person is willing to compromise. (You don’t need to put up with everything your mum does either. I know it’s sad that an “old person” is going to be on their own at Christmas. Why? Just because you’re old doesn’t mean you stop being an a-hole).

well well OP, the toxicity doesn't fall far from the tree.

I’ve read your update OP. Your mother is manipulating you to be her emotional crutch. Shes a grown woman but has continually overstepped the boundaries of another mum (who she sees as a threat because she’s stolen her ‘boy’) and she ‘can’ do this as you enable her behaviour by making your wife choose between you or her right to live peacefully. She’s driven a wedge between you and your wife and is risking the happiness of your family with her behaviour. Does that sound like she’s putting your interests first, or hers? Be honest, deep down, do you enjoy being the only one that ‘can make your mum happy’? (Here’s a tip- no one can make your mum happy as she seems the sort of person to go through live doing exactly as she pleases without thinking about anyone else and then having an emotional meltdown when she’s prevented from going further).

why are you expecting your wife to act with more maturity than your mother? (‘Why can’t my wife just accept these terrible behaviours in my mum’) your mum has several decades life experience over you both, SHE should be role modelling the behaviour that is needed when navigating tricky young family life.

Sounds like your wife has a point but I do hear you on saying you want to dis use and find a solution for all but your wife just gives a blunt ultimatum which isn’t helpful. Have you said I do understand how she’s difficult, I don’t agree with her behaviour but I can’t just not be her son and would lie to maintain some relationship/don’t want to stoop to her level?

Growly, you sound like a saint!

It's all ''No contact'' ''Grey Rock'' on mumsnet.

Christmas is so often fraught for people .

I wonder if Eid and other Religious 'feast days' are as fraught , where extended families meet up?

Gosh OP, this is a difficult situation for you. My ex MIL was extremely disrespectful towards me so I can see your wife's point of view. I couldn't cut her off, as my ex was in business with her. Also I wanted my children to have a relationship with her. I used to lie in bed at night so angry and unheard I'd fantasise about pissing on her grave!!!! Ex did whatever she wanted, always put her first. He's still a little boy in that respect.

I would like her hear your Mother give a heartfelt apology to your wife for everything you have listed.

Then say New Year, New Start. See you on January 1st. Your mum needs to experience a solitary Christmas to know you are a united front and you mean business.

@sunflowersngunpowdr are you a grandmother yourself? You seem to perceive someone who isn't willing to tolerate disrespect or bad behaviour as "fragile". I more see it as the mother in law is reaping what she has sowed in terms of behaviour towards a new mother and imposing herself into their life.

I don’t have a MIL nor am I a MIL but I do have an emotionally manipulative parent who pulls shit like this.

I am going to be blunt @Unjeffeson unless you grow a spine, your marriage will not survive. Despite listing your mum’s behaviour you feel aggrieved that your wife is being ‘hard nosed’ or won’t be the one to compromise, which essentially means tolerate your mum’s bad behaviour.

You are still too enmeshed to see just how damaging your mother is to the relationships in your family. I would bet you have given a very neutral report on what she has actually done and said. Your brother’s actions give a clue to that.

Wanting to spend Christmas Day with you is just one more power play for her, where she will either get her way and demonstrate her power over you by behaving badly or she can play the victim and live off that for months.

Given how her behaviour has impacted you to the point of having almost no sense of identity outside of what will keep mummy happy, or your brother who has cut her off, why do you think your wife would want your child exposed to someone like this?

And for what it’s worth, if I was your DW and saw how some posters have used this thread to call me a cow or a maniac or abusive, for wanting to keep someone who impacts my MH out of my life, with not a word of support from you, your mum would be living her dreams by having you back with her full time.

FFS I don't understand why people who are so fragile keep having children. No wonder nobody can cope with life anymore with such weak parents as their examples @sunflowersngunpowdr That's one way of looking at it. The other side would be that OP's wife is actually strong enough in asserting her own boundaries that she won't put up with this shit. And actually it's people who are too scared to upset the apple cart that are fragile and weak.

@sunflowersngunpowdr thanks :)

It’s no coincidence that your wife and your BROTHER have called a day on interacting with your mother. You’re too enmeshed to see it I fear, but you’ll lose your wife if you’re not careful. You mother is the problem.

Exactly. Instead of challenging his mum at the time, he lets her do it again and again, then gets upset that his wife won’t concede.

Have family time on the 25th then take your daughter to see your mum 26th or 27th

@oakleaffy I'm really not! I just did what any normal person would have done in our situation. I've had friends with similarly difficult situations with parents or close relatives, and unless there is a real element of danger involved, they just made the most of it like we did.

My DH did this for years as well (with my mother).
I was too emmeshed in the situation to realise how truly awful her behaviour was.

It wasn't until she started treating my children in the same way that she treated me, I realised how awful it was.

Now, I am kicking myself for exposing them to years of visits and toxic behavour in the hope of "making the day as nice as it could be for everyone".

If it had been a person I was unrelated to, I wouldn't have stayed in touch for a minute. And I think my DH must have been a saint for putting up with it.