Wife wont let mum come round at Christmas

[Unjeffeson]

Background:
My m(41) wife hates my mum. There wasn't one incident but she just thinks shes selfish and manipulative and just wants everything on her own terms, including spending time with pur daughter. She feels my mum tried to dominate when our daughter was born and has never considered her feelings, and is rude and catty to her. My wife also thinks I take my mums side too much when i try and explain her point of view or try and create compromises. This has led my wife to feeling like my mother is ‘the other woman’, and she sees red almost every time we discuss her.

Things have been stable if unpleasant for a while, with my wife agreeing for my mum to see our daughter every couple of months for an afternoon. In the meantime my mum is on the phone to me regularly about how depressed its all making her.

Whats happened:
My mum has asked if she can see us on Christmas day, so she doesnt have to be by herself. My wife has said hard no, she doesnt want her anywhere near us at xmas. Mum can see us at some point around the end of December but not on Christmas day. Wife says we need to maintain a united front to set boundaries with my mum on this.

Ive been managing my mum’s feelings on all this for two years now as well as putting my wife’s desires first. It is important to me that my daughter knows her grandmother and that she doesnt get dragged into it. When we argue about it my wife makes ‘it’s me or her’ noises and i refuse to break up my family for what my mother wants. But dealing with mums misery on the whole thing is very hard.

What should I do? Is it okay to say no to mum at xmas so long as we have another date lined up?

And i guess more importantly - had anyone here had a mother in law you feel is so unpleasant that you prevent them visiting, keep them away at xmas etc, in spite of the difficulty it causes your SO? Where’s the line of tolerance (if there even is one)?

It's ok not to want to be alone at Christmas. It doesn't negate you enjoying spending time with your children or grandchildren.

Sorry I am with your wife here. You are clearly the golden boy in your mother’s eyes and everyone else is just a hanger on. Your wife probably just feels like she is a breeding cow to produce grandchildren & is pushed to the side & not getting the respect due as a mother.

your mother majorly stepped over the line when your dc was a baby. Yes she is manipulative for making you responsible for her happiness. Even your brother is not having anything to do with here. The common denominator here is your mother.

your wife has these boundaries for good reasons. Back her up and maybe your mother will change her behaviour to something more acceptable. An apology for her past behaviour would be a good start.

Your wife sounds potentially abusive, trying to isolate you from family. It's not her place to dictate whether you can see your own mum on Christmas Day, regardless of past behaviour

"It's ok not to want to be alone at Christmas. It doesn't negate you enjoying spending time with your children or grandchildren."

@izimbra it doesn't read that way to me at all I'm afraid, everything the OP says is about how his mother feels and her reactions to being alone now. Her behaviour has already led to one of her sons cutting ties with her and she seems to be clinging on to the OP in desperation.

Maybe people need to remember that if they don't want to be alone they need to be a positive force in the lives of others?

The mother has been inappropriately using her son as an emotional crutch since his father left home. She is emotionally manipulative. He hasn't even realised that this is the crux of the issue. Not his wife's relationship with his mother but his own.

This.

My DP has been burdened by responsibilities his parents put on him from childhood, too. As a result everything he does for them is done because he somehow feels guilty. About something he can't describe.

I'd never seen a grown man jump to his parents beck and call before but speaking to friends it appears it's not unusual.

Yes, your parents are important, but when you marry your DW becomes your next of kin and should be the most important person in your life. You are, unfortunately, caught between a rock and a hard place.

I'd say no to your DM on Christmas Day. She's not a child and that day should be YOUR family's day not your DM's.

My DP's DM marched into our home (my DP had given her a key. I changed the locks myself a few moths later!) and tried taking over. She was all smiles and sanity in front of him but when he wasn't there she was a completely different person. She'd let herself in and be a rude bitch about everything.

It came to a head one day when I said no about something illegal she wanted my DP to do. The smiley persona slipped, her teeth were bared and she told me exactly what she thought of me in front of him.

He MUST have registered the depth of feeling against me but never mentioned it. I had peace for over a year as she didn't call in but the whole incident was very unpleasant.

Is your DM doing this to your DW? If you look through your wife's eyes is your DM overstepping boundaries? Or is she sly (no man wants to see this about his DM) and is unpleasant to your DW when you're out of earshot?

Maybe you could try counselling to understand what's going on here. But put your DC and your DW first on Christmas Day or you might end up spending next year with your DM and not YOUR family.

Good luck. I try to think of how torn my DP is but sometimes I just want him in my corner. I suspect your DW feels the same.

I don’t think I know anyone, young or old, who would actually say this and mean it.

You’re saddened by people not wanting/being able to put up with others’ failings?

Are you saddened by those others inflicting hurt on people with their words and actions?

There is one person on the giving end, and another on the receiving end. What mental gymnastics have you gone through to look at the failings of the person on the receiving end?!? I can only assume you are used to being on the giving end.

ETA my own MIL has as much tact as a bull in a china shop. Her husband and children constantly apologize for her. She causes offence wherever she goes. The root cause of this is overflowing love for her children and grandchildren. But that’s irrelevant. Everybody else manages to love their family as much as she does AND not be rude and thoughtless. Why can’t she? She’s an intelligent woman, no disabilities or untoward circumstances. Why should everyone have to take her comments? Why should she be allowed to make zero effort, and everyone else make all the effort? I would love to hear what someone with your logic thinks about that.

It absolutely is her place to decide who is in her house, especially when that person has been rude, insensitive and insulting to her during periods of great vulnerability.

I’ve had very similar issues plus some, with my MIL.

The best compromise I’ve been able to come up with is the year I proposed we will have lunch Christmas Day in a restaurant, rather than me hosting.

it took so much pressure off, knowing I didn’t have to do the full day in her ghastly company. It was well worth the money.

Hurt people hurt people.

Unless the behaviour is bordering on evil we should give parents & in-laws the opportunity to communicate why they are being hurtful & what is possibly underlying. A few snide comments here & there can be addressed at the time instead of letting things simmer to the point of exclusion.

OP has listed some clearly abusive behaviours. You are minimising.

His wife isn't saying he can't see his mother. She's saying she doesn't want to which is perfectly valid.

Agreed. I've seen this play out in real life and it's deeply unhealthy. It's definitely a form of abuse, if not as intentional as hitting your children (for example).

Oh dear. After reading your update, I'm definitely feeling more much empathy for your wife. Your mum clearly has form, having driven your brother away with her hurtful remarks. She is also trampling all over your wife's boundaries. The whole 'me or her' scenario isn't originating from your wife, but rather from your mum who is engineering situations designed to make you pick a side. I have a MIL like this, who starts trouble, then ends up playing the victim when anyone bites back. Honestly, she'll have 'But I was only saying ...' etched on her gravestone.

If your wife doesn't want to see your mum, don't put her in a position where she has to. Show her you're on her side. As others have suggested, take your child to visit her alone. Maybe with a bit of time and distance, your wife and mum might come to have a cordial relationship, but your wife definitely needs to feel supported for this to happen.

Bear in mind that it’s unlikely that your mother has been making these comments in FRONT of you, much more likely that this has been happening when you’re out of earshot and through subtle means. I would imagine your wife put up with it for a long time and now can’t bear it any longer. It might make your life easier if she tolerated unpleasantness from your mother - as you clearly can’t bear to upset her - but why should she?

@Unjeffeson After your update..I empathise with you.

You sound a good man, who wants to keep both parties happy, and your mom and wife do sound a it similar!

{This isn't unusual}

It's a shame your mum hasn't ''got over'' her divorce with your dad..
My own husband left, and it cause my son {aged 4 when he left} terrible emotional pain.

Son is an adult now, and I have made an effort to get on with his dad, simply as I know it makes life easier for son if both his parents 'get on' despite living apart.

It's probably best if you see your Mum with your daughter without your wife being there.

You are not ''a mummy's boy'' as someone implied, you sound a thoughtful man who just wants to keep the peace, and who doesn't want to end up divorced.

It's not easy for you, with your loyalties divided.

Your Mum and wife sound equally stubborn, but probably neither wants to acknowledge this.

You are being pulled at like a rag between two hounds whop both want the rag.

Like this:

I never suggested in her house - op could vist his Mum's

@Unjeffeson Your wife is not BU. My ex-mil was the same. My now exh was just like you. (Ultimately he actually became just as nasty as her when life got tough).

Your only choice is to put up boundaries with your own mum and prioritise your wife and child at all times. Right now you're an enabler. And eventually you will have to go back to mum if you wont cut the cord and grow up, because your wife WILL leave you.

My mother did this too. When I breastfed and my nipples would bleed and I would cry she used to say “you’re such a wimp! I didn’t find it hard at all!”. Similar “plenty of milk” comments. And now that she’s dead, my father continues this perfect mother myth by, every time anything minor happens in my parenting, “your mother never had any problems when you were little. She was amazing at it all”.

Drove / drives me bonkers. I am parenting completely differently. I have been through a lot of therapy for various reasons and it’s helped me see things clearly and be a better person myself.

I agree here that you need to stop being the peacemaker. My MIL is no picnic, but she does try and my DH calls her out on things she’s done wrong and she doesn’t do them again. I think this is the key to having a good relationship with your in-laws even if you don’t “like” each other - respect their opinion even if you don’t agree with it, don’t be passive aggressive (or aggressive) or competitive or manipulative.

Family is everything but she was so cruel to her son/your brother that he can no longer speak to her?

You resent your wife not being willing to 'improve' the situation but the problem is your mum's behaviour. What can your wife do to improve that?

You don't necessarily get to be the one to decide if your family breaks down or not, to be brutally honest. Your wife has her own agency, and if you can't be the husband she needs, she has every right to break up. Hopefully that won't happen if it's otherwise a good marriage, but to me it sounded like strange framing - you're saying you'll do anything to keep the family together, yet it sounds like your wife's been clear about what she needs in order for things to work, and it doesn't sound like you've ever stood up to your mum about pretty bad boundary-crossing and rudeness, or learned to set your own boundaries.

So if it's just a few "snide comments here and there" why hasn't it been addressed? OP clearly would love everyone to get along. I can't believe he hasn't tried to do this.

NO. They do not.

Hurt people who can’t or won’t take responsibility for themselves, hurt other people.

The rest of us behave like adults.

Your poor mum! I'm not sure why everyone has decided that your mum must be awfuland your DW entirely reasonable.

Pretty sure if a woman had posted saying her DH was doing this coercive control would be mentioned.

Your DW is making you choose. If my DW made me choose, it would be my mum...

Difficult for you OP. You are caught between a needy, not very nice sounding Mum, who hasn’t come to terms with her son getting married and having a family of his own, and someone who’s resentment (probably justified) has hardened over time. You have to put your wife and family first, but I would talk to each individually, at a good moment, explaining what you will do to support your wife, but making sure your Mum gets to know her grandchild.

If it was me, I would not put pressure on your wife to have a relationship with your Mum, your Mum put paid to this a while ago. But I would explain to your wife that you want to take your grandchild to see your Mum, set some boundaries over frequency, places to meet, and if your Mum gives any sign of being critical in terms of how your wife is raising your child, then set the boundaries there and then on what you will tolerate. And stick to it. Once your Mum knows you have committed to this family, she will hopefully understand where your loyalties lie. She might even try harder to be nice, be less critical. Christmas Day I’d simply try and take your child to see her, or do it another day. You don’t want or need your wife and Mum together at the moment, too toxic.

"I never suggested in her house - op could vist his Mum's."

@Rosieposy89 there is nothing in the OP's posts to suggest that his wife is stopping him from seeing his mum. Just that she's not prepared to see her and is limiting her child's interactions with her. So I assume the OP can see his mum on his own.