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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Anyone else trying not to contact a guy 3

460 replies

SunsetSkylane · 10/10/2024 21:22

Anyone still want to chat?

@pubertyalloveragain I think you posted last on thread 2, how you doing?

@namechangeforthis5 @Frith2013 @Thewookiemustgo another thread if you want it, or maybe you're all magically cured - or maybe Wookie is sick of our shit 😂😂

OP posts:
Vanishedinexplicably · 21/10/2024 20:30

Thanks @Thewookiemustgo , that’s helped a lot. I understand the emotional affair point. You come across as a lovely, caring, thoughtful person and I know no offence was meant. It’s helpful to have a different perspective and reality check. I think you are incredible to take the time to write on this thread and elsewhere.

I had already contacted him before my post but with a decision in my mind that it would be the last time, I realised I hadn’t explained that very well. It felt like a step forward, finding the strength to decide not to keep calling and to take his current hurtful behaviour as the closure.

I admire that you’ve been able to save your marriage. I don’t think mine can be salvaged but don’t want to make myself and the children emotionally and financially worse off. Gilded cage (that I worked so hard for). Honestly I had such absolute trust in my DH I don’t think I could trust a man again, this latest debacle seems to confirm it.

Sorry, am just rambling and being self-pitying now! Really thought there was a chance of a happy ending, future just looks so bleak again. Trying to focus on children now and be a better parent as they have really kept me going. There is more I could do career wise too so will think about that, just need to be braver.

Frith2013 · 21/10/2024 21:15

I've been invited to a hobby thing (by someone nice).

Prat man will be there.

I don't think I will attend.

SunsetSkylane · 21/10/2024 21:19

Would you be missing out on something you want to go to @Frith2013

OP posts:
lovelymango · 21/10/2024 21:32

I don’t think you should not go @Frith2013

SunsetSkylane · 21/10/2024 21:39

Yeah, if you want to go, do. Live your life. He's had enough from you, maybe you're strong enough now to be in his presence and style it out like he always meant nothing.

OP posts:
Thewookiemustgo · 21/10/2024 23:09

@Vanishedinexplicably thank you, I would be mortified if I thought I’d hurt instead if helped, you’re all in enough pain without me gobbing off and making it worse. I can’t accept how great you think I am taking the time to write 1) I love writing and 2) I love all things psychological and 3) I’ve had a horrible Coviddy lurgy for a week and had far too much time on my hands. 😂
I think you are brave. It takes a lot to through what you have and what you are going through. Mums do so much completely unseen for their kids. If I’m honest initially when I found out about his affair I was in shock and just trying to survive. I couldn’t see anything except that one of our kids had really important exams on the horizon and idolised their dad, we had such a happy family life and the shattering of it would have absolutely ruined their chances and jeopardised their entire future. I felt I had no choice other than to keep it secret and hide his shit until at least after that. It probably saved his ass to be honest because it forced my hand for nearly three months to do pretend normal and he wisely used that time to sort himself out and make really major changes. If the kids had known and been devastated too I’m not sure I could have tried or wanted to salvage anything, I’d never have forgiven him ruining their happiness and security and trust in anyone. Anybody is capable of an affair, I don’t care what they say. I know that intrinsically good people have affairs because my husband did, for the same reason it surprised me to know that it happens in happy marriages too. On MN nobody ever seems to want to believe this but in my husband’s case it was more dissatisfaction with himself than me, stuff had happened to him which is too outing to put here. It’s not an excuse at all, but it made him ripe for flattery and attention in the classic midlife crisis years (his AP when fishing for reassurance that she meant anything to him, actually asked him if she was his midlife crisis) and she was the ego boost he needed to feel good about himself again. Older man attracts beautiful woman 20 years his junior, he’s obviously still got it ….. 🙄
Ironic in that when the bubble burst he felt worse about himself than ever and had reached the absolute shit pits of who he really wanted to be. He is absolutely the last guy you’d ever think would do this, and after 35 years of no major or ongoing problems, everybody we know held our marriage up as successful and they still do. Nobody knows except my best friend and one sibling.
Just be the best mum you can be and take pride in that.
Re trust, if it’s any consolation, I don’t fully trust anyone blindly any more and I’m not sure we should. We shouldn’t live in fear presuming they are untrustworthy and we should hold them accountable to their promises and integrity, absolutely , but we can’t read minds and 100% predict anyone’s future intentions, so full blind trust to me is never a good idea. It has to be earned by honesty and consistent actions which back up words. If trust is broken you have to work one hundred times longer and harder to earn any of it back, if you ever can.
You’ll get your happy ending in the future, but he’d be a difficult man to trust anyway after this. If I was single I’d never consider anyone new whom I knew had cheated. If they’d cheated on somebody they once loved enough to marry, I’d never be quite convinced they meant a word of it with me. I now value honesty above all things.

Thewookiemustgo · 21/10/2024 23:36

@MainlyWater I’m genuinely sorry you feel that way about people, in that everybody always gets shafted in cases of infidelity and ends up alone. It would throughly depress me and make me wonder what the point was.
It leaves no room for change, personal growth or understanding. It means we are all defined forever by our actions and our misdeeds and there’s nothing we can do about it, we’re stuck forever as the sum of all our transgressions. The ‘once a cheater…’ trope. It’s not always true, some are, some aren’t.
I see real desire for change in everyone on this thread, trying their hardest to move away from doing things they either regret or know no longer serves them. If people don’t want to change they won’t. It’s amazing what they can do if they really want to.

MainlyWater · 22/10/2024 03:12

@Thewookiemustgo

I'm not just talking about infedelity wookie, I mean as you age and grow old, depending on who passes away first in a relationship we ultimately end up on our own.

I think only then can you look back in hindsight and assess if all the pain was worth it, that includes the betrayed and the betrayers, so many games of switching partners to dance which takes the energy of getting on with real life and the creative stuff that can happen with peace of mind.

Those men and women that require games of one upmanship in relationships to boost their egos, these people don't need to do it, sometimes they can't even explain why they chase the next cheating episode. It's like attaining something for the sake of it just because others do it or have it.
Men are especially bad for this, the one's that have no intention of ever leaving their wives, it's crazy really ruining their primary relationship for something they don't even want in a full sense, it's like a self destruction button.
And I'm not critizising these ladies, everyone wants a best friend, someone on their side, someone to protect them and make them feel special, it's human nature to want to feel loved but right from the get go these ladies are being asked to share the man. It doesn't bode well for being put first.

The saviours end up being the destroyers in many cases.

If you are ever in a possition whereby you have to wait for someone else's choice or decision to go forward in life, then back off.
You need to be in control of your own life, do not place the power in someone elses hands because many people are not to be trusted.

Always make it your choice and if your choice is not possible then move away from that which you cannot control.

The game to many men is keeping you there, dangling with false promises being used like a slave of love.

SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 06:05

See @MainlyWater I feel a bit the same about lifelong fidelity; let's be honest it comes with a big side of boredom, and you ultimately end up alone (or die first) anyway.

Nobody gives you a balloon or anything for managing it.

OP posts:
ILoveSleeping · 22/10/2024 08:43

So.
I posted a while ago explaining my FWB situation, things are really starting to bug me recently.
We became very close and things got really intense, he told me he was falling in love with me and so of course my feelings for him intensified. We both don't want to be in a full blown relationship for various different reasons but we've been really close and things have been lovely between us.
Until last night, when I essentially asked him where we stood and if he was really in love with me like he'd said before, to make sure we were on the same page and for a bit more understanding.
He then replied with 'remember what we said at the start, don't get feelings!'
Is he serious??? I am honestly so confused now, how can he say he's falling in love one minute and then tell me not to get feelings for him???

Vanishedinexplicably · 22/10/2024 09:28

Hope you feel better soon @Thewookiemustgo . Still think you’re great to do it even if you enjoy it! It’s funny, I would normally say the same re not trusting someone who has cheated but I know I would never even think of being unfaithful if my DH hadn’t broken our marriage. I was 100% committed. I know that’s true of “AP” too. So I can’t condemn him without condemning myself. Interesting psychology for you!

I think we’d each resigned ourselves to staying for the kids, maybe trying to make it work as best we could with spouses but both felt we were living a half life, met each other and realised how different it was, how it made us feel alive again even though nothing physical happened. Feel super sad he didn’t have the courage to give it a try, and not to tell me he couldn’t. I wonder if I’ll ever hear from him again. Probably not, I think he’ll just bury the feelings. I feel even deader than before, just a numb shell going through the motions of life.

Thewookiemustgo · 22/10/2024 10:25

I can’t disagree with why you say @MainlyWater, death and other people’s behaviour is not within our control.
Logically then, the only way to avoid pain from being hurt by others whether intentionally or through death is to avoid relationships altogether, which also deprives us of a basic human need and a great deal of fulfilment and joy.
I think we all make ourselves vulnerable by having relationships with others and every relationship is a risk of a loss of some kind or another. That is true. But many of these risks are worth taking.
I’m in my sixties now and my parents, a sibling and three friends, one very close one, have all passed on. Of course I miss them and still live them dearly, sometimes it can still make me cry, but I feel privileged that they loved me and brought me so much support and joy.
People cheat for many reasons, not just ego. My husband’s affair was ego driven but why he made that choice to cheat where others wouldn’t was the real cause. The cheating episode could hade been alcohol, drugs, food, over spending etc, anything to avoid dealing with the feelings and pit of pain around why he felt that way about himself.
It was self sabotaging and self sabotaging behaviour is very difficult to understand and unpick. Those who do it are doing it to avoid what is really going on with them, and having avoided it for so long and gone to such destructive drastic measures to avoid it, aren’t exactly going to pull up a chair and discuss it and deal with it, until they realise they can’t run away forever or they actually die doing it. He had to reach rock bottom and thoughts of suicide to get there. None if this is an excuse, he chose it knowing what he was doing, it was all his responsibility.
You are absolutely right that he never intended leaving me and yet he drove a wrecking ball through us. You are absolutely right that it’s a crazy self-sabotaging thing to do. When the shit hit the fan he had deliberately avoided thinking about the consequences of how nuts it all was, just keep getting the dopamine and tomorrow will look after itself. He was eventually forced by circumstances to look at it and it horrified and terrified him.
He sat sobbing and saying “I’ve ruined my life. I’ve ruined everybody’s life.” over and over again. I just watched him unmoved, he’d killed us for ultimately nothing. I felt nothing, it was too painful to even feel.
It did make me realise that cheating isn’t always cynically motivated and that there was something else going on. It wasn’t about her or me or anybody but him. It wasn’t going to be him waiting for me to take my eye off the ball then go back and keep doing it. He hated himself.
Epiphanies do exist and that was his. It caused huge changes for the better and I’ll never regret staying. Cheating to me is like any other self destructive behaviour, you either face it and sort yourself out and change, or you’ll carry on chasing it and doing it to your own eventual demise leaving a swathe of pain in your wake. There aren’t enough people or beds or drugs or alcohol or porn or food in the world to solve your issues, you have to do that yourself.
I think men do this more than women for a variety of reasons, some being upbringing and traditional gender roles and expected characteristics, which lead to men seeing owning up to having issues and talking about issues as weak. It would be interesting to see gender figures for any kind of addiction and self sabotaging behaviour, maybe men are more likely to do this rather than address their issues than women. We support and talk to one another and confide more than men do, maybe. Thankfully there are mental health campaigns encouraging men to speak up and teaching in schools around gender now and maybe that will help.
Totally agree about waiting for someone to make decisions about going forward in life, my husband had to decide as soon as I found out and immediately agree to sort his shit out or I was done. He made a shitshow of ending the affair but the decision was made, he did it and committed to looking at himself and his issues and change. He did that too.
I think it comes down to boundaries and what you’re prepared to put up with. I stayed after infidelity but I wasn’t prepared to put up with it, if that makes sense. His cheating was a total revelation to me, but once known, there would be no more in my life, in that he could either stop or get out.
I agree about fully being reliant on others. I am responsible for my happiness and I know I’d be ok on my own. Everyone needs to be at that point before they have a relationship with anyone, being afraid of abandonment or dependent or living in hope of a decision or change is unhealthy and soul destroying.
Serial cheats won’t stop until they face what’s driving it, like any addict. If you’re kept dangling with no decision or change then it means exactly that: they don’t want to make a decision and they don’t want to or aren’t prepared to change. For me that’s when to walk away. No decision, no relationship.
Don’t ever wait for anyone to sort their shit out, sadly for my sibling and their spouse they made a great deal of effort to stop the behaviour but never sorted out the actual cause. Their self destructive behaviour eventually killed them.

Vanishedinexplicably · 22/10/2024 11:46

ILoveSleeping · 22/10/2024 08:43

So.
I posted a while ago explaining my FWB situation, things are really starting to bug me recently.
We became very close and things got really intense, he told me he was falling in love with me and so of course my feelings for him intensified. We both don't want to be in a full blown relationship for various different reasons but we've been really close and things have been lovely between us.
Until last night, when I essentially asked him where we stood and if he was really in love with me like he'd said before, to make sure we were on the same page and for a bit more understanding.
He then replied with 'remember what we said at the start, don't get feelings!'
Is he serious??? I am honestly so confused now, how can he say he's falling in love one minute and then tell me not to get feelings for him???

Sounds as though you need another conversation with him @ILoveSleeping , and he needs to be totally honest with you. But keep your eyes wide open, and heed Wookie’s advice that words need to be backed by actions.

Frith2013 · 22/10/2024 13:07

OK, now I'm annoyed.

Prat ex (secretly married, a disappointment in that and all other areas), no contact for 10 weeks. I have had to rearrange parts of my life to avoid him, give up a hobby, leave a hobby WA group etc.

He is not an idiot and knows exactly what he has done wrong and why it upset me.

As I mentioned yesterday, I have been invited to a hobby group social thing. I won't go as I don't want to see prat ex.

I was having a lovely morning. I walked to town to get my hair cut (3 miles each way so I was feeling quite virtuous).

I then received a WA from a mutual friend and member of the hobby group.

"Are you in town? Prat ex and I having a coffee and he really wants to see you so come and join us".

WTF??!

I'm annoyed that I deleted his number so couldn't WA him while he was having his coffee and tell him to fuck off and not to involve other people in his dirty work.

SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 14:19

Quite close to deleting our chat but not sure I'm ready to lose all these years of conversation.

Sigh. :(

OP posts:
Vanishedinexplicably · 22/10/2024 15:50

Omg @Frith2013 , keep that number deleted! @SunsetSkylane I just locked my chat with him on WhatsApp so have to work harder to get to it. Not much but has reduced number of times I’ve clicked on it and it’s not a reminder of him every time I open the app

Thewookiemustgo · 22/10/2024 16:32

Keep going everyone, grieve what was. Don’t beat yourselves up for still caring, it’s just proof you are alive and not a cold callous person.
Having said that, ask yourselves why caring women like you should be treated like this and pursue those who do not care in the same way that you do. Care deeply but care about yourselves. Know your worth and align yourself with those who know it and value it too.
Those who don’t are the ones who have lost something valuable, something worth pursuing, not you. You have lost somebody who when the chips were down did not value you enough and still demonstrate that that is the case.
Pay attention to yourselves and care about yourselves enough to put yourself first now. They didn’t and that is their loss. Grieve what was and then look forwards, it’s where the good stuff is.

SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 16:38

Woah @Thewookiemustgo ❤️❤️❤️

OP posts:
SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 16:39

That really got me. You're such a grown up compared to my silly nonsense!

OP posts:
Frith2013 · 22/10/2024 16:43

WHY did mine invite me to coffee? To have a chat (unlikely in front of someone else) or so he could see me really uncomfortable, lying in front of my friend?

Does he somehow think we are still friends???

Honestly, I thought better of him than his behaviour in the past 2-3 weeks. I've shut up and stayed entirely away.

Take a hint, mate!

Thewookiemustgo · 22/10/2024 17:06

@SunsetSkylane hate reading your pain, all of you, and having a go at yourselves. You could all be so much more, value yourselves so much more. It’s a living hell and time to get out.
Also felt it was getting derailed and I had played no small part in that for which I apologise.
God! Why is it only Tuesday and Friday Wine is always too far away? 😂

SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 17:30

Thewookiemustgo · 22/10/2024 17:06

@SunsetSkylane hate reading your pain, all of you, and having a go at yourselves. You could all be so much more, value yourselves so much more. It’s a living hell and time to get out.
Also felt it was getting derailed and I had played no small part in that for which I apologise.
God! Why is it only Tuesday and Friday Wine is always too far away? 😂

Oh don't get me wrong, in many ways I'm fucking awesome 😁

He's just a blip, a b-plot character. And he's prematurely balding.

OP posts:
ILoveSleeping · 22/10/2024 18:14

I'm not even sure I want to talk to him about it? I feel like maybe I'm just done. 🙃

needahandholdpls · 22/10/2024 18:35

SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 14:19

Quite close to deleting our chat but not sure I'm ready to lose all these years of conversation.

Sigh. :(

You could back up the chat so it's stored and downloaded into your files on your phone, then delete? That's what I've done, I know it's hard though x

SunsetSkylane · 22/10/2024 18:53

There are way too many messages @needahandholdpls I did that before and it only saved the latest 100 or something.

Not that it matters much: I don't think you could pay me now to read back through it all.

@ILoveSleeping I would leave it tbh. There are no good answers unfortunately.

OP posts:
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