My sister and married man

[Tumblingthroughlife]

Long time poster on here but name changed for obvious reasons. I wondered If anyone has been in a similar situation and can help me work out how to talk some sense into my sister! I've recently found out that she's been having a full blown affair with a married man since February this year. Now my sister has always , until now, seemed to have her act together but this year she has completely changed and it all coincides with this man coming into her life. Apparently they met online at a time when she was going through her own difficult separation and he told her all the usual spiel- dead marriage, roommate situation blah blah blah.

She Is completely convinced that she and this man are in love with each other and that he is separating from his wife as soon as he has 'figured out housing ' 🙄 as neither of them can afford their mortgage alone despite apparently both being on good salaries. I decided to conduct some research of my own , and turns out this man and his wife have been together over 20 years and (seemingly) happily married for 11 years with 2 children ! In fact the wife posted a photo of the two of them not that long ago, and recently 'love hearted' his profile picture so can't imagine they are that unhappy! My sister also admitted the MM and his wife have been on a couple of family holidays together since the affair started so I'm of the opinion that the wife has no idea of this 'unhappy' situation.

The problem is my sister is quite naive and her self esteem has taken a nose dive in recent years, and I think this guy has completely love bombed her so she's not seeing sense at all no matter how many red flags I point out or what I say to her . This man has completely wooed her , taken her away on 'work ' trips ,even abroad (he's in the sales industry and works away a lot both in the uk and overseas which is I imagine how he gets away with his cheating 🙄) . He's said all manner of awful things about his wife to her which I can't imagine could be true, and says that as the wife is older than him and has put on weight he no longer fancies her- what a prince amongst men !!
What can I do to help my sister see sense ? She is going to waste years of her life waiting for this man and I can already see the effect that this is having on her mental health. The worst thing is this man lives in hours away from us near Manchester, and she is even thinking of moving closer to there so she can be with this man, which is never even going to happen!

I don't want to give up on my sister, but I feel like she is completely lost to this situation and don't know how to help her.

As you have already seen from your efforts to get through to her, she's completely caught up in his world, intoxicated by him, the trips away, the future faking etc. It's like telling a full blown alcoholic not to pick up a drink again. I don't think you will get through to her.

I also understand your tightrope situation of wanting to be there for her as you love her but not wanting the situation to carry on for a multitude of reasons.

I'm normally one for straight and honest conversations with no skullduggery. However on this one occasion I would entertain the idea of telling his wife. Partly because she should know (if she doesn't already) but also it would hopefully put an end to their relationship.

I know some people will disagree (and tbh I almost do myself) but on balance it might be the best thing in the long run but only if you do it anonymously and you know she wouldn't know it was you.

I’d tell the wife too.

A friend of mine had an affair and was going to leave her DH for the other guy (also married with kids). It was well advanced by the time she told me and apparently all our other friends had said go for it if that's what will make you happy. I told her - compassionately but firmly - what a bomb this would set off in her life and the kids' lives. The devastation that would be caused, the angry and vengeful dumped partners, and a likely lifetime of therapy for the kids as a result. She stayed, worked on the marriage (her DH did know about the affair) and 10 years later they are happier than ever and she recognises that the affair was a bubble of fantasy, not real.

A bit different for your sister as she doesn't have anyone else. But a relationship which starts as an affair, with kids involved, is no foundation for a happy future.

Instead of telling the wife (everyone involved, including your sister, will hate you for ever if you do) tell your sister of all your concerns, that it will lead to heartbreak for her but that you will always love her. And maybe she should see a counsellor, as PP have suggested.

Your sister might actually be pleased if you were to tell the wife, as this may bring matters to a head and result in the marriage breaking up. People aren't thinking straight when they're in an affair. They just want what they want, with little or no regard for the other people involved.

I wouldn’t hesitate to tell his wife.

Ask her to imagine how the wife would feel if she knew about her. You have said yourself she has had bad relationships in the past so she must have some understanding for the other woman. Also, she needs to think about her own worth…does she feel worthy being the other woman?
I think the best thing you can do is help work on her confidence and self esteem. And just be there. You can’t force people to see things sadly:

I don’t believe that your sister is naive and doesn’t really appreciate what she’s chosen and keeps choosing to do either.
However, affairs are more like a drug, great analogy from a previous poster about telling a full blown alcoholic not to have another drink at the bar.
What drives affairs is the risk, the secrecy, the feeling of being ‘chosen’ over the wife or husband (who are usually the baddies in this love story). There’s a huge high from the forbidden nature of their (swoon) torrid love affair, which prevents two poor, tortured, helpless lambs who really love each other, from (sobs in back of throat) ever being together. (Dissolves into tears). Cruel fate…. destiny thwarted…. oh, the longing etc etc . Barf.
So it’s not like a normal out in the open relationship, the ‘honeymoon/ first date’ feelings go on way longer because of the forbidden-ness and lack of time able to be spent together. How can something so wrong, feel so right blah blah… is often in song lyrics and the conversations of affair partners.
As it progresses, it becomes a tiny, enclosed, intense bubble of two people versus the world. Anyone and anything which gets in the way or disapproves, becomes the ‘enemy’, thus having the opposite effect desired, as it tightens the ‘us versus them’ bond rather than actually being heard as the truth and sensible advice.
Your sister won’t hear you because she doesn’t want to. She doesn’t want to stop what she’s doing, therefore a reality check and/ or censure of what she’s doing, will be met with stubborn deafness to a spectacular level and/ or open hostility.
It’s hard when it’s a close friend or relative doing something awful, we love them and disapprove of them at the same time and it’s hard to know what to do.
It’s also true, however, that people in affairs are so selfish and become so self-obsessed that they just don’t see the risk, look at the consequences or even want to consider how it affects/ will affect others close to them. Your sister has put you in a terrible position. That is a profoundly selfish thing to do.
Your conscience won’t let you stay out of it or mind your own business, that’s the easiest way out of it all, just pretend you don’t know.
But you do.
The thing is, if you’re the decent person I think you are from the love you show for your sister, plus your disgust at her behaviour, it’s not going to sit well with you to know that by knowing, you’ve been dragged into it too whether you like it or not and now the whole thing hangs on your silence and secret keeping as well as theirs.
I personally think the wife should be told, she has a right to know.
My husband had an affair and I would be galled to think that others knew and did not tell me whilst I carried on like a complete fool and my sexual and mental health was being risked on a daily basis.
I have a sibling who had an affair and I didn’t know a thing until the proverbial hit the fan. Easy for me to say, but if I’d known I would have told them I was going to give them a period of time to end it or come clean to the other spouse and if they didn’t, I was going to.
I would say that if I was his wife I would want to know and that I’d been given no choice by knowing and thereby having it become my business too.
That poor woman needs to know and if my sibling hadn’t understood the terrible position they had put me in plus why the betrayed spouse should know, then I would say that I would always be there for them, but not want a relationship with them until they’d given their head a proper wobble.
I’m sorry you have this dilemma, your sister needs to sort herself out and never have put you here in the first place.

Your sister is not a good person imo, but then, you know that

Tell the wife. Anonymously, I suggest, but tell her nonetheless

Id be showing your sister the photos of him and his wife, the love hearts etc and be telexing her that if he did ever leave his wife for your sister he would find a replacement for your sister.

she will always have doubts due to how their relationship started.

how would your sister feel to be in the situation of the wife.

Give her a copy of The Script.

There is not much you can do, I have tried helping friends and colleagues with unsuitable men to see what they are doing but they won't listen. He is perfect, he only loves them etc. Even if he sent you messages and dick pics it would be your fault for encouraging him. You could even drive her to the door of a renewal of wedding vows and she will claim his wife made him do it.

The only thing I've seen work is when the man has cheated on his wife and AP, once she sees she is not the only one, the scales generally fall.

You've done the right things by telling her you don't approve of her behaviour but you can't change her mind with good reasoning, she has none at present.

I told my colleague and friends that I didn't approve of affairs because of the devastating effect it has not just on the partners but their families and especially children. Everyone else just seems to encourage the affair. That I did not want to hear about their affair and just keep moving the conversation away from him and how frigging wonderful he is this was I was not allowing them to normalise their fantasy. I did tell my colleague straight as I knew the man and his 2 GFs who lived in the same village as me, but if she needed anything I'd listen. She stopped speaking to me about him and I was the first she came to when it fell apart and she saw him for what he really was.

I've tried showing my sister the pictures I found of the man and his wife and even showed him the wife's Facebook page but she insists that as this is all posted by her and not him , that's it's her trying to put on a 'facade' and not real etc . Nothing I say seems to get through to her !
She admitted she's happy today as MM is working away this week which means she gets to have video calls and phone calls with him etc, which normally she wouldn't get to do . It's like she's become super grateful for things that would be the bare minimum in any normal relationship. She seems to think that him having long phone calls with her proves he loves her , rather than the likely truth that he just enjoys the attention and validation! When he's at home she's only 'allowed' to message him through this telegram app where he hides their conversations in some secret folder! Hardly the start of a great romance novel !
I'm half tempted to show her this thread but I don't want to close down the communication with her and drive her further towards him.

So sorry she’s like this when you are trying so hard, however it’s pretty much pointless, she’s in her bubble and gets a huge high from it and whilst it stays a fantasy life in the dark it won’t change unless he dumps her or she finally realises that he’s very probably just using her to add a frisson to his normal life, which in all probability will be the last thing he ever gives up unless his wife forces him to by divorcing him. This won’t stop u til something or somebody makes it stop and it’s unlikely to be loving and well meaning relatives and friends.
A good dose of reality usually ends it, the man usually does what he wants to do in the end, which nine times out of ten is tearfully beg his wife for another chance, whatever fake future garbage he’s spouted to keep your sister hooked.
Men who
leave for their affair partner have usually given up on their marriage and want to leave anyway, either lining up the next woman or using it as a catalyst to get out and make the wife end it so he doesn’t have to.They usually don’t care if their wife finds out or just tells them themselves. Affairs like that tend not to go on for a very long time, unless the guy is trying to set up his new life behind his wife’s back re a place to live/ finances/ solicitor before he tells her he’s going. The longer an affair goes on without the husband leaving his wife doesn’t mean he’s getting more and more invested, it’s more likely to mean he’s never going to leave because if he was that unhappy, he just would or would at least be actively planning/ doing stuff towards it.
Most affairs lead to the guy just keeping on enjoying the illicit fun until his wife finds out somehow or the affair partner gets fed up of it and the penny drops.
His wife will either dump him, so he’ll tell your sister he’s relieved and planned it all along and by the way can he stay with her, or his wife will give him a second chance. In that case, he’ll go cold and distant on your sister until she gets fed up and walks away herself, or he’ll tell her he loves her but he can’t leave his children (oh woe is me) in an effort to let her down gently. He’ll be praying she doesn’t get angry and contact his wife in revenge with all the gory details that he’s either lied about or minimised to the size of an atom.
The Script is true, everybody thinks that their affair is so unique and special but the way affairs are conducted, the available choices and consequences are boringly and predictably pretty much the same.
Reality and the truth are the only things that will force the end of this, one way or another. There’s none so deaf as those who choose not to hear. So sorry you’re in the middle of it. Infidelity is destructive and ugly, the ripples of the hurt spread out to the whole extended family and friends of the selfish idiots involved, who refuse doggedly to look at it because guilt is such a passion killer, after all.
The truth will come out and she’ll find out and hit rock bottom the hard way unfortunately, and the pair of them will take everyone down there with them.

Does she wonder why - if they are no longer together, that he cannot be in touch with her at anytime he chooses?!
that in itself is enough … but to be honest she probably does know but is caught up with her feelings for him. We have probably all stayed with someone we shouldn’t have so we all kind of know the score. She will get there…I am sure. Be gentle with her.

She knows they're together but thinks thar they basically live as roommates 🙄 and that he's planning to leave. They live in quite an expensive area near Manchester and he just keeps saying to her he's 'working out the housing situation ' as neither of them can afford the mortgage alone apparently (though both on good wages!) . He's feeding her all the usual guff about how he doesn't want to mess things up for the kids etc. Very distastefully he also keeps using his 8 year old son as an excuse for the 'delay' as child is potentially on the autism spectrum and he doesn't want to uproot him (which may be true, but how about not having an affair If your such a good Dad?! 🤨) He also blames the wife a lot saying she's apparently in loads of debt, who knows whether any of this is true but certainly not an excuse for his behaviour .

Tale as old as time, he won't leave the wife for your sister, but try to get her to think about what it would look like if he actually did. Is she desperate to be in a relationship with a cheating father of two? She might be, and if she is, there's not much you can do to save her from herself, but I would be very tempted to anonymously provide his wife with some key information to rock his cake and eat it boat.

You might as well be talking to a brick wall!

She won't listen.

People who have affairs never do. They get caught up in such a selfish bubble where they consider nothing other than themselves.

You can show her pictures.
You can talk about potential fall outs.
You can talk about her reputation.

She will not listen.

I've thought about telling the wife , obviously anonymously. I wish she could know the awful things her husband has said about her. Basically he's told my sister he doesn't fancy his wife anymore mainly due to her gaining weight after having children ! By the sounds of it they were both very into the gym in the past, and he likes the very slim , fit aesthetic. He's also made really awful comments about her teeth (!). Wife is seven years older than him making my sister 10 years younger than her and I think she's enjoying feeling like the 'chosen' one especially as she hasn't felt attractive in a long time due to her past relationship and self esteem issues. I've tried explaining to my sister that looks fade and asked why she'd even want to be with someonen so superficial. But as a previous poster said, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Show her the posts? Contact the wife and tell her? She may need this to dump his ass (or not) He might break it off.... But ultimately, she will get heartbroken whatever you do or don't do... Unfortunately with adults, we/they need to make their own mistakes. Just let her know you're there for her.

Ap is a pos and deserves everything he gets. You keep "defending" your sister with comments like she wasn't loved in her last relationship where as in reality she's no better than the Ap and you're enabling it. There is only 1 victim here and thats the children. I would tell the wife anonymously showing her proof as she will possibly ignore just a message and be there for your sister when the fall out happens. The fall out is going to happen wether or not you tell the wife. Put your self in the wife's position, do the right thing and tell her.

Out of all the responces this one is probably the most down to earth responce on here, she knows whats she is doing rather than make her out to be a victwm in all this make it obvious your not happy be honest, this is as much her as it is him.

Sister or not, I couldn’t tolerate or justify this behaviour. I’d be saying “you’re being stupid and naive, come back to me when it goes to shit” and cutting her off until then. She knows what she’s doing and is justifying her actions by using his lies. She’s as bad as him, whilst his poor oblivious wife and family sit at home.

I would actually say to her I want to be completely honest with you and tell you what I think. Then I will stand back and be your loving supportive sister; even though I strongly disagree with your actions. Then say everything as diplomatically that you put in the post. I personally would add to it...look at this situation without your feelings for this man. He's actively betrayed and lied to a woman he's been with for 20 years...to her face with no difficulty. Even if his feelings are true; he lacks morals and a backbone. Even if you get your wish and he moves on with you. How can you be truly happy with a man of this moral fibre? Having deprived his kids of their dad when his marriage could be salvageable if he put the effort he's putting into you; into his relationship??

Then personally I would leave it at that and be there for her; quietly disagreeing in your head. She's still your sister and she knows your feelings. But if you then don't let it go it will put a wedge between you and she won't come to you when it falls apart.

Good luck OP 🍀❤️

How incredibly frustrating for you. It must be so hard watching her determination to waste so much precious time on him. He has no intention of leaving his wife.

At the risk of victim-blaming, she is bringing much of this upon herself. The evidence is there but she refuses to see it. Silly woman.

All you can do is wait for the inevitable and help her pick up the pieces.
Very difficult.