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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Everything is destroyed - relationship with my family, my husband, my friends. *Mentions suicide* Edited by MNHQ

268 replies

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 11:07

Complex and long story.

THE BACKGROUND

There is autism in my family, diagnosed in my kids generation, undiagnosed previous to that. I am one of three sisters. One is severely mentally ill, BPD/autism spectrum, she is violent, no partner, no kids, supported by our dad. My other sister and I have had more normal lives.- she has no partner but 2 lovely kids, I have a husband and kids.

My 'well' sister and I both had sons a year apart. Hers was a year older. He would often hit my son and generally seemed to dislike him. I got upset, but my husband got even more upset. My sister dismissed it and told me it was my fault for inadequate supervision. Over time as the boys got bigger, the behaviour from her son got worse and the situation became intolerable. The two boys got on better, but he was still hitting my son, pulling his hair.

I felt unable to talk to my sister because she wouldn't hear it. To be fair to her I was in my head thinking the word 'psycho' about her son but I never said it, I was much more diplomatic. Her son nearly died after birth from an infection and I believe now that she felt as if my criticisms of his behaviour was somehow a threat to his life. I didn't fully appreciate how traumatised she was.

My husband is a mildly narcisisstic drama queen from a very messed up family. He has many good qualities and he's not an outright villain but I'm still trying to work out where the line lies. He got so ramped up about the situation that I felt completely trapped between him and my sister. He got very angry with me about not taking on my sister and putting her above our son. He had a point.

My sister wasn't listening, my husband wasn't listening.

When my husband decided we needed to move out of London, I went for it. I thought it would put distance between my son and his cousin, and ease all the tensions.

My sister was devastated that I left London. Very angry. We had horrific rows about all sorts. She would close down conversation about the problem calling it a 'powder keg'.

After we left London, my husband took it upon himself to work away from home and ended up living with my dad for a bit. My husband is very entrepreneurial and capable of earning money but has put us through a lot of financial strain, also just general upheaval (we moved house 6 times in 7 years).

My dad's anger at my husband's hijinks had been building up for a while and now it exploded in a terrible row. He couldn't see why my husband would take me out of London then return to live with him, my dad. I could see where my dad was coming from but his rage wasn't helpful, it was devastating.

Meanwhile son was being diagnosed as autistic - I believe this was partly why my nephew's behaviour towards him distressed me so much. Perhaps my nephew's behaviour was normal, but my son wasn't normal, he was more vulnerable than most kids his age. That wasn't my sister's fault and explains why she couldn't see it from her side. I didn't even know he was autistic so couldn't explain it that way. Should she have tried a bit harder to understand my point of view? I don't know.

My husband returned home and got a good job for a while, then quit that to do lots of amazing projects with interesting people that didn't really pay and put us under terrible financial strain.

I should earn my own money but I have been bullied in the workplace and fired many times and am probably on the spectrum. I would like to work - I used to work very very hard when I was young, I held down two jobs at times - but I have specific work-related trauma. The only work I like is hospitality but I'm 53 and my joints are caving in from the menopause.

THE INCIDENT

November 2022 I am visiting my elderly, immobile mother in law, and I'm bringing my daughter because my mother in law loves her. I plan to stay over with my dad as he's on the route. We've been getting on well, i've been loving hearing his stories of late, although he's clearly losing his memory. He doesn't give much of a shit about whether or not he sees my daughter but he is perfectly sweet with her. Thats just him, by now I've begun to suspect he's on the spectrum.

My dad tells me not to bring my daughter that night becuase he wants to talk to me about his will.

I say i must bring her because my mother in law will be disappointed not to see her.

My dad isn't really clear what the issue is. He's talked to me about his will before - its usually some phenomenally boring legal tweak. Or something about my mentally ill sister and how the will will deal with her.

I call my 'well' sister who is the main carer for my dad - what's going on? She says its fine, just go up there with my daughter.

I get there. My dad takes me into his study and tells me he's putting me on special measures in his will, the same special measures he's put in place for my severely mentally ill sister. It's because he worries my husband will spend all the money. He's very worried about our children and wants his inheritance to go to them. He thinks DH will spend it all. We will have to speak to lawyers to get any money from the inheritance. Even for small things. They will block it if they think it's not sensible expenditure.

I was worried about my DH spending the inheritance too, so I planned to put a deposit down on property for them in their name, which we can rent out until they need it. My DH is very keen on that too thankfully.

My dad says we are not allowed to buy property, it's a very dangerous way to invest money. This sounds outlandish to me.

I feel like I'm falling off a cliff but then my dad brings in my 'well' sister. He says she agrees with everything, that I cannot look after various practical aspects of my own life. He tells me various things that I know she thinks - criticisms of me - but he wouldn't know if she hadn't said them to her.

At this point I feel like the walls are falling in on me but my dad doesn't seem to notice. I wonder how I'm going to explain this to my DH, who gets angry when criticised.

I get angry and distressed. I feel like I'm being fired from my family. My dad tells me I'm behaving like our severely mentally ill sister.

All this time my DD is in the house.

Somehow I get through the night, get to my mother in laws, get home. I'm streaming with tears the whole time but I don't say anything to anybody.

I'm teetotal but on Monday I buy a bottle of whiskey and tie a rope around my neck. I drive drunk to macdonalds at 3am, buy a load of burgers, eat them and vomit them up.

Husband hides the whisky, by wednesday I'm sober.

But I can't talk to my dad and my sister. That has been established. They do not understand. They do not listen. I cannot bear to experience their incomprehension. I block them.

I carry on with my life, fantasising about hanging myself but knowing I won't. I'm not that far gone. But I'm in so much pain.

THE AFTERMATH

Almost 2 years later i have tried to talk to my sister but she closes down the conversation when it gets too difficult. She says my viewpoints are extreme and she has nothing to usefully contribute. She says she doesn't understand me, and she doesn't want to talk about these things.

My friends don't understand. It's too horrible for them, too shocking, too wierd, too unlikely, too complicated. Suicidal? FFS! What now! They've never liked it when i'm in the grip of big painful feelings, and now I'm like that all the time. I edit out that side of me, but I've only been happy enough to see my best friend once since it happened.

So my friendships are dying. Not all, I have one friend having mental health and marital difficulties I feel very close to. But some very important friendships are withering.

My husband is partly the cause of all this. He's done some very stupid things around money, said some very stupid things around money to my dad. Been a drama queen, been shockingly moronic.

He's now started a successful business (touch wood) but our relationship has been under terrible strain since it happened and I'm not sure we'll ever recover.

The fact that my relationship with my husband has been so affected makes it hard to discuss the situation with my dad with wider family. They would understand strains between my dad and I (and possibly even my sister) I but I feel too ashamed to open up about my husband's part in it.

EPILOGUE

Last week was my dad's 90th. In anticipation of it I'd tried to mend bridges with him and my sister and it was going well.

The party was thrown by my sister and there was a big presentation and speeches about how marvellous he was. I only found out about that the day before and felt unable to participate.

While it was going on, I felt as if I'd been ambushed again by my sister and my dad working in cahoots against me and around me. Irrational but I guess I was traumatised by the will incident.

"What about severely mentally ill DS?" I wanted to scream while it was going on. "What about how I was tying a rope around my neck 18 months ago?"

Instead, I stood by and cheered. The day wasn't about me.

The wider family was there - 50 people.

It was like a public divorce from my father and my sister, with my whole extended family on both sides bearing witness. It was hidden, it was implied not explicit, but it was happening.

I feel numb now. I can't talk to anybody. Not anybody. Thought I'd try mumsnet.

OP posts:
Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 18:58

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:46

I'm just trying to regulate tbh but there are too many people on here with their own anxieties

I don't think that at all fair. What we know about you is what you've told us and I haven't seen anyone saying that you need to seek proper help sharing enough about themselves for you to come to that conclusion. It sounds like a bit of a self fulfilling fait accompli to think that, TBH. "People are challenging what I say so it must be their failings behind it ".

Consider that.

LissaGa · 28/09/2024 18:59

I think you should step away from Mumsnet and seek real life reassurance and support. Your life sounds chaotic, your thought patterns are all over the place and I'm not sure any of us on here can actually offer anything that will enable you to move on with your life in a safe and healthy way.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:00

Not fair? I have been told I'm talking bullshit! That my post should be taken down. That I'm upsetting and disturbing.

All I said was people have their own anxieties. Name me one person who does not and I'll give you a million dollars

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:02

A lot of what I have said is very ordinary and not particularly dramatic.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:03

I guess I made the OP too dramatic.

OP posts:
Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 19:13

@almondmilk123

You are dismissing people saying things that you don't want to hear, challenging aspects of your narrative, as "having their own anxieties". For you, you need to get beyond that and find help that will be far beyond what an internet forum can possibly offer.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:20

Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 19:13

@almondmilk123

You are dismissing people saying things that you don't want to hear, challenging aspects of your narrative, as "having their own anxieties". For you, you need to get beyond that and find help that will be far beyond what an internet forum can possibly offer.

Yeah and I am seeing a psychotherapist but I also want to have a conversation with someone that's not a MH professional.

I've found it helpful. I feel calmer since this thread began - see the difference between OPs and now.

That seems to be hard to handle for the pathologisers.

I actually haven't dismissed the pathologisers, if you read this thread I've tried to engage with them.

Talking on mumsnet is just one facet of how I'm
Coping, guys.

I can be greatly distressed, in need of and receiving pro support, but also coping for now and able to handle a mumsnet convo

OP posts:
Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 19:23

But now you have persecuters on this thread OP.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:25

Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 19:23

But now you have persecuters on this thread OP.

Yes and I'm very aware of that and I'm finding it cathartic to engage with them as I can't have those conversations with my family. That's why I'm still talking.

OP posts:
IfIHadAHeart · 28/09/2024 19:28

i Have read all of your posts OP and I have to agree with many PPs; you seem like you are in need of urgent MH support. Not a counsellor or a psychotherapist.

Interestingly, you seem to be totally lacking any insight into your own behaviours and how they have contributed to this situation. You are infantilising yourself with talk of “big feelings” which enables you to avoid taking any responsibility for actually dealing with those feelings. Most of the feelings appear to be caused by the narrative in your own head rather than the actions of those around you.

As someone who deals with people in MH crisis on a daily basis, I can tell you that it is extremely hard for family and friends to cope with. It sounds like your dad and your sister have tried to safeguard your children’s future, which is a good thing. Whether you are able to see it yourself at the moment or not, neither you nor your husband are fit to be left in charge of an inheritance. Perhaps if you seek the right help, that may change in the future.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:28

I'm perfectly aware that I'm projecting my family dynamics in this thread. But who isn't?

OP posts:
SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 19:29

I often think with threads like this that a chasm opens up between people who have first-hand experience of toxic families and people who haven't.

DreamHolidays · 28/09/2024 19:33

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:58

Yeah maybe re other posters esp rigid ones. I hold my hand up to being ND and I overanalyse like f* but I also apply that to the mystery of other peoples subjectivity which makes me almost too open minded

@almondmilk123 im realising that I might not have been clear.

My comment about overanalysing was about comments from other posters who seem to think it’s an issue and as sign of MH issues. When it can simply be normal for you and actually a healthy coping mechanism.

I have a few people who are ND in the family. As well as a couple if friends. I just recognised similar patterns in your posts as I see with them.

This wasn’t a criticism of you or your posts/reactions (which there seems to be plenty on this thread)

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:33

IfIHadAHeart · 28/09/2024 19:28

i Have read all of your posts OP and I have to agree with many PPs; you seem like you are in need of urgent MH support. Not a counsellor or a psychotherapist.

Interestingly, you seem to be totally lacking any insight into your own behaviours and how they have contributed to this situation. You are infantilising yourself with talk of “big feelings” which enables you to avoid taking any responsibility for actually dealing with those feelings. Most of the feelings appear to be caused by the narrative in your own head rather than the actions of those around you.

As someone who deals with people in MH crisis on a daily basis, I can tell you that it is extremely hard for family and friends to cope with. It sounds like your dad and your sister have tried to safeguard your children’s future, which is a good thing. Whether you are able to see it yourself at the moment or not, neither you nor your husband are fit to be left in charge of an inheritance. Perhaps if you seek the right help, that may change in the future.

Well, I've edited my big feelings completely out of my relationship with my friends and family to protect them.

I describe them as big feelings to put a name on a problem that I have. I know it is a problem. I am very aware that it is taxing for other people.

I have accepted on many posts which you can see above that I am overreacting, there's something wrong with me, it is outlandish to think it's a public divorce... my family does care about me, that my dad's will plan was a good one, that i can see where he was coming from.

I don't really understand how you can come to the conclusion that I have no insight.

I'm curious about why you feel that I have no insight. What's going on for you here?

You say you work with people in MH crisis on a daily basis. What do the people you work with make you feel?

OP posts:
DreamHolidays · 28/09/2024 19:34

@IfIHadAHeart what do you think a psychotherapist does if not supporting MH?

Plus the OP has already said she has MH support anyway.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:43

DreamHolidays · 28/09/2024 19:33

@almondmilk123 im realising that I might not have been clear.

My comment about overanalysing was about comments from other posters who seem to think it’s an issue and as sign of MH issues. When it can simply be normal for you and actually a healthy coping mechanism.

I have a few people who are ND in the family. As well as a couple if friends. I just recognised similar patterns in your posts as I see with them.

This wasn’t a criticism of you or your posts/reactions (which there seems to be plenty on this thread)

dreamholidays i love your comments they are a breath of fresh air and sanity. Exactly this. I'm hyperverbal and hyperanalytic and its part of how I regulate my emotions as a definitely ND, probably autistic person.

Even when people are telling me i have no insight and I'm distressing and upsetting and need urgent psychiatric care, at least I'm given a chance to get my words out, to somebody who is listening even if they aren't agreeing!

And I realise I misread you as saying are other posters ND when you meant are other members of my family ND. Absolutely. We are not within the boundary of1990s autism, 2000s autism or even 2010s autism, but we are definitely within the boundary of 2020s autism (I am referring to the way the diagnosis has expanded).

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:44

SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 19:29

I often think with threads like this that a chasm opens up between people who have first-hand experience of toxic families and people who haven't.

yes exactly. replicating the dynamics of the original situation. xxxx

OP posts:
Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 19:46

Hey! Of course counsellors and psychotherapists can cope with MH issues - that's literally why we do what we do.

The OP has complex issues but a good counsellor will be fine with that, and if they aren't then we are obligated to refer on.

Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 19:46

I think you desperately need to be heard OP.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:53

Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 19:46

I think you desperately need to be heard OP.

yes. By my dad, sister and husband. But mumsnetters are better than nothing.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:58

But , blanketyre when I have tried to talk to my sister she's told me I'm completely out of line. So I'm kind of trying to work out where the line is - what's acceptable. This mumsnet thread has helped me a lot, when peole actually engage in my story, which is why I do feel impatient with the people who go all meta and say 'oh don't engage with her narratives, don't encourage her in her delusions of persecution'. That's the opposite of helpful.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:59

there are people like that, who are delusional, but I'm not one of them. Extremely distressed - yes. But not delusional. It's a bit boring in that way.

OP posts:
SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 20:00

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 19:53

yes. By my dad, sister and husband. But mumsnetters are better than nothing.

But I think it would help you immensely if you could find a way to dispense with the need for your family to hear and acknowledge your feelings. Because if how you describe them is accurate, I think you're going to be waiting forever, and meanwhile your life is proceeding at the same pace as everyone else's. I think if you can find a way, guided by your therapist, to learn to say 'knickers to the lot of you', life would eventually become a lot easier.

Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 20:03

There is nothing to stop you wallowing in comments you agree with @almondmilk123 . Your situation will make no difference at all to our lives, because it is your situation. I'm glad I'm not in it, because your DH seems to carry on like he's a badly made firework and you go along with it.However much he appreciates your creativity, that can't compensate for stability for you and your kids.

Stop blaming the wrong people for your plight.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 20:03

SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 20:00

But I think it would help you immensely if you could find a way to dispense with the need for your family to hear and acknowledge your feelings. Because if how you describe them is accurate, I think you're going to be waiting forever, and meanwhile your life is proceeding at the same pace as everyone else's. I think if you can find a way, guided by your therapist, to learn to say 'knickers to the lot of you', life would eventually become a lot easier.

I like this a lot. I am kind of moving in that direction. I will still have contact but hve to let go of this idea that they're my safe people.

OP posts:
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