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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Everything is destroyed - relationship with my family, my husband, my friends. *Mentions suicide* Edited by MNHQ

268 replies

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 11:07

Complex and long story.

THE BACKGROUND

There is autism in my family, diagnosed in my kids generation, undiagnosed previous to that. I am one of three sisters. One is severely mentally ill, BPD/autism spectrum, she is violent, no partner, no kids, supported by our dad. My other sister and I have had more normal lives.- she has no partner but 2 lovely kids, I have a husband and kids.

My 'well' sister and I both had sons a year apart. Hers was a year older. He would often hit my son and generally seemed to dislike him. I got upset, but my husband got even more upset. My sister dismissed it and told me it was my fault for inadequate supervision. Over time as the boys got bigger, the behaviour from her son got worse and the situation became intolerable. The two boys got on better, but he was still hitting my son, pulling his hair.

I felt unable to talk to my sister because she wouldn't hear it. To be fair to her I was in my head thinking the word 'psycho' about her son but I never said it, I was much more diplomatic. Her son nearly died after birth from an infection and I believe now that she felt as if my criticisms of his behaviour was somehow a threat to his life. I didn't fully appreciate how traumatised she was.

My husband is a mildly narcisisstic drama queen from a very messed up family. He has many good qualities and he's not an outright villain but I'm still trying to work out where the line lies. He got so ramped up about the situation that I felt completely trapped between him and my sister. He got very angry with me about not taking on my sister and putting her above our son. He had a point.

My sister wasn't listening, my husband wasn't listening.

When my husband decided we needed to move out of London, I went for it. I thought it would put distance between my son and his cousin, and ease all the tensions.

My sister was devastated that I left London. Very angry. We had horrific rows about all sorts. She would close down conversation about the problem calling it a 'powder keg'.

After we left London, my husband took it upon himself to work away from home and ended up living with my dad for a bit. My husband is very entrepreneurial and capable of earning money but has put us through a lot of financial strain, also just general upheaval (we moved house 6 times in 7 years).

My dad's anger at my husband's hijinks had been building up for a while and now it exploded in a terrible row. He couldn't see why my husband would take me out of London then return to live with him, my dad. I could see where my dad was coming from but his rage wasn't helpful, it was devastating.

Meanwhile son was being diagnosed as autistic - I believe this was partly why my nephew's behaviour towards him distressed me so much. Perhaps my nephew's behaviour was normal, but my son wasn't normal, he was more vulnerable than most kids his age. That wasn't my sister's fault and explains why she couldn't see it from her side. I didn't even know he was autistic so couldn't explain it that way. Should she have tried a bit harder to understand my point of view? I don't know.

My husband returned home and got a good job for a while, then quit that to do lots of amazing projects with interesting people that didn't really pay and put us under terrible financial strain.

I should earn my own money but I have been bullied in the workplace and fired many times and am probably on the spectrum. I would like to work - I used to work very very hard when I was young, I held down two jobs at times - but I have specific work-related trauma. The only work I like is hospitality but I'm 53 and my joints are caving in from the menopause.

THE INCIDENT

November 2022 I am visiting my elderly, immobile mother in law, and I'm bringing my daughter because my mother in law loves her. I plan to stay over with my dad as he's on the route. We've been getting on well, i've been loving hearing his stories of late, although he's clearly losing his memory. He doesn't give much of a shit about whether or not he sees my daughter but he is perfectly sweet with her. Thats just him, by now I've begun to suspect he's on the spectrum.

My dad tells me not to bring my daughter that night becuase he wants to talk to me about his will.

I say i must bring her because my mother in law will be disappointed not to see her.

My dad isn't really clear what the issue is. He's talked to me about his will before - its usually some phenomenally boring legal tweak. Or something about my mentally ill sister and how the will will deal with her.

I call my 'well' sister who is the main carer for my dad - what's going on? She says its fine, just go up there with my daughter.

I get there. My dad takes me into his study and tells me he's putting me on special measures in his will, the same special measures he's put in place for my severely mentally ill sister. It's because he worries my husband will spend all the money. He's very worried about our children and wants his inheritance to go to them. He thinks DH will spend it all. We will have to speak to lawyers to get any money from the inheritance. Even for small things. They will block it if they think it's not sensible expenditure.

I was worried about my DH spending the inheritance too, so I planned to put a deposit down on property for them in their name, which we can rent out until they need it. My DH is very keen on that too thankfully.

My dad says we are not allowed to buy property, it's a very dangerous way to invest money. This sounds outlandish to me.

I feel like I'm falling off a cliff but then my dad brings in my 'well' sister. He says she agrees with everything, that I cannot look after various practical aspects of my own life. He tells me various things that I know she thinks - criticisms of me - but he wouldn't know if she hadn't said them to her.

At this point I feel like the walls are falling in on me but my dad doesn't seem to notice. I wonder how I'm going to explain this to my DH, who gets angry when criticised.

I get angry and distressed. I feel like I'm being fired from my family. My dad tells me I'm behaving like our severely mentally ill sister.

All this time my DD is in the house.

Somehow I get through the night, get to my mother in laws, get home. I'm streaming with tears the whole time but I don't say anything to anybody.

I'm teetotal but on Monday I buy a bottle of whiskey and tie a rope around my neck. I drive drunk to macdonalds at 3am, buy a load of burgers, eat them and vomit them up.

Husband hides the whisky, by wednesday I'm sober.

But I can't talk to my dad and my sister. That has been established. They do not understand. They do not listen. I cannot bear to experience their incomprehension. I block them.

I carry on with my life, fantasising about hanging myself but knowing I won't. I'm not that far gone. But I'm in so much pain.

THE AFTERMATH

Almost 2 years later i have tried to talk to my sister but she closes down the conversation when it gets too difficult. She says my viewpoints are extreme and she has nothing to usefully contribute. She says she doesn't understand me, and she doesn't want to talk about these things.

My friends don't understand. It's too horrible for them, too shocking, too wierd, too unlikely, too complicated. Suicidal? FFS! What now! They've never liked it when i'm in the grip of big painful feelings, and now I'm like that all the time. I edit out that side of me, but I've only been happy enough to see my best friend once since it happened.

So my friendships are dying. Not all, I have one friend having mental health and marital difficulties I feel very close to. But some very important friendships are withering.

My husband is partly the cause of all this. He's done some very stupid things around money, said some very stupid things around money to my dad. Been a drama queen, been shockingly moronic.

He's now started a successful business (touch wood) but our relationship has been under terrible strain since it happened and I'm not sure we'll ever recover.

The fact that my relationship with my husband has been so affected makes it hard to discuss the situation with my dad with wider family. They would understand strains between my dad and I (and possibly even my sister) I but I feel too ashamed to open up about my husband's part in it.

EPILOGUE

Last week was my dad's 90th. In anticipation of it I'd tried to mend bridges with him and my sister and it was going well.

The party was thrown by my sister and there was a big presentation and speeches about how marvellous he was. I only found out about that the day before and felt unable to participate.

While it was going on, I felt as if I'd been ambushed again by my sister and my dad working in cahoots against me and around me. Irrational but I guess I was traumatised by the will incident.

"What about severely mentally ill DS?" I wanted to scream while it was going on. "What about how I was tying a rope around my neck 18 months ago?"

Instead, I stood by and cheered. The day wasn't about me.

The wider family was there - 50 people.

It was like a public divorce from my father and my sister, with my whole extended family on both sides bearing witness. It was hidden, it was implied not explicit, but it was happening.

I feel numb now. I can't talk to anybody. Not anybody. Thought I'd try mumsnet.

OP posts:
Baileysandcream · 28/09/2024 16:59

how much was this whole will shitshow a punishment for daring to try to be creative?

Earlier you said it might be punishment for getting married, now it may be a punishment for daring to try to be creative?

Why are you so convinced your family is out to punish you?

What if it's not meant as a punishment at all? What if it's from a place of love and concern and an attempt at protection?

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:00

Maia77 · 28/09/2024 16:34

You seem emotionally overwhelmed. What are you struggling with the most? Is it the feelings of rejection/abandonment?

really good question maia77. Since I moved out of London my non-severely mentally ill sister has hurt me again and again with anger and also passive agressive acts. We used to be absolutely hand in glove best friends before we had children, but when we had children that fractured. she was, i understand, very angry that i left London and her. To be honest, I felt very bad about it - I didn't want to leave - and so I was oky with her retaliations - it was fair enough. When the thing happened with the will it felt like it was an escalation of her retaliations. I felt really scared that she will never forgive me for leaving london and she will keep on hurting me. When the 90th birhtday happened I felt like here it is, the next thing she does to hurt me. So I just feel like she and my dad are just going to keep on and on hurting me. They can't/wont' talk anything through, so I can't clarify that they won't do that. So I feel unsafe with them.

I think it's loss that I'm struggling with. I used to trust them and feel safe around them. I no longer can. They will never stop punishing me for leaving london, being creative, being married to a difficult man.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:01

Baileysandcream · 28/09/2024 16:59

how much was this whole will shitshow a punishment for daring to try to be creative?

Earlier you said it might be punishment for getting married, now it may be a punishment for daring to try to be creative?

Why are you so convinced your family is out to punish you?

What if it's not meant as a punishment at all? What if it's from a place of love and concern and an attempt at protection?

see reply to maia77

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:03

Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. A lot of it sounds pretty cray.

OP posts:
Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 17:10

Will you speak to your therapist about posting on here and how that made you feel?

SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 17:10

I do feel I need to stop giving it oxygen. My dad is too far gone, I just want to make his last years happy. Re my sister, I'm fantasing that she'll say 'were you okay at the 90th birthday party?'. I'll say 'Thankyou for asking, but maybe don't start a conversation that you are not willing to finish, that you will just shut down when it feels too difficult." Then we'll stop talking. That is the current roadblock - she's unwilling to talk things through.

I do understand the urge to set her straight, but please think about just letting it all go. By engaging with her at all, you continue to tether yourself to her. She is pushing your buttons like an elevator operator at the moment, and you and your mental health don't need it, and won't benefit from it. All of this creates drama, and the drama heightens your already big emotions. As someone who has lived with family estrangement for many years now, I can promise you that walking away will lighten your load more than you ever imagined, even though it denies you the opportunity to give all the best lines to yourself.

PadstowGirl · 28/09/2024 17:11

Today or even this week, I'd not a good time to cut ties with your family or make your situation any more stressful. Put them in a box of a few days.

Put some music on, get baking with the kids or go out into the fresh air and then talk things over with your GP on Mon/Tues.

If you need support urgently, you can ring 111 and ask for extension 2 for mental health needs.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:23

Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 17:10

Will you speak to your therapist about posting on here and how that made you feel?

sure will

OP posts:
Maia77 · 28/09/2024 17:33

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:00

really good question maia77. Since I moved out of London my non-severely mentally ill sister has hurt me again and again with anger and also passive agressive acts. We used to be absolutely hand in glove best friends before we had children, but when we had children that fractured. she was, i understand, very angry that i left London and her. To be honest, I felt very bad about it - I didn't want to leave - and so I was oky with her retaliations - it was fair enough. When the thing happened with the will it felt like it was an escalation of her retaliations. I felt really scared that she will never forgive me for leaving london and she will keep on hurting me. When the 90th birhtday happened I felt like here it is, the next thing she does to hurt me. So I just feel like she and my dad are just going to keep on and on hurting me. They can't/wont' talk anything through, so I can't clarify that they won't do that. So I feel unsafe with them.

I think it's loss that I'm struggling with. I used to trust them and feel safe around them. I no longer can. They will never stop punishing me for leaving london, being creative, being married to a difficult man.

Do you feel they're emotionally blackmailing you? Do they want you to leave your husband? Maybe they've never said it out loud but it seems that's what they want to happen. They are pressurising you to choose sides and that puts you in a difficult position. It feels like you're caught in the middle between your father/sister and your husband. Maybe try and centre yourself to find the inner peace and recognise that their behaviour and actions are theirs and you can't control that. They are trying to guilt trip you (maybe your sister more than your father) and that's just emotional manipulation.
Take a deep breath, find some inner stillness and step back from it all.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:39

Maia77 · 28/09/2024 17:33

Do you feel they're emotionally blackmailing you? Do they want you to leave your husband? Maybe they've never said it out loud but it seems that's what they want to happen. They are pressurising you to choose sides and that puts you in a difficult position. It feels like you're caught in the middle between your father/sister and your husband. Maybe try and centre yourself to find the inner peace and recognise that their behaviour and actions are theirs and you can't control that. They are trying to guilt trip you (maybe your sister more than your father) and that's just emotional manipulation.
Take a deep breath, find some inner stillness and step back from it all.

That definitely feels like its part of it. I don't think it was conscious and i think they're sorry now. They are both very clumsy. But they can't/won't talk it through so it's of limited value to me. That may be a flaw on my part - as this thread shows, I need a lot of debate and analysis to come to terms with things. Maybe my sister just doesn't. She'd rather we drifted apart than go through the conversations. My dad can't - dementia and never really listened to anyone else anyway.

I want to step back but have to see my sister next sunday.

OP posts:
SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 17:47

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:39

That definitely feels like its part of it. I don't think it was conscious and i think they're sorry now. They are both very clumsy. But they can't/won't talk it through so it's of limited value to me. That may be a flaw on my part - as this thread shows, I need a lot of debate and analysis to come to terms with things. Maybe my sister just doesn't. She'd rather we drifted apart than go through the conversations. My dad can't - dementia and never really listened to anyone else anyway.

I want to step back but have to see my sister next sunday.

Have to?

Maia77 · 28/09/2024 17:48

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:39

That definitely feels like its part of it. I don't think it was conscious and i think they're sorry now. They are both very clumsy. But they can't/won't talk it through so it's of limited value to me. That may be a flaw on my part - as this thread shows, I need a lot of debate and analysis to come to terms with things. Maybe my sister just doesn't. She'd rather we drifted apart than go through the conversations. My dad can't - dementia and never really listened to anyone else anyway.

I want to step back but have to see my sister next sunday.

It is hard when the other side, especially someone you are close to, is not willing to listen to you or empathise with you. Your dad and sister probably can't understand why you are still married and they probably want to protect you, but this is not the right way to go about it as it creates ruptures and alienation. It would be good to talk to your sister to explain how you feel about your husband and the whole situation, but not much you can do if she doesn't want to listen.
Do you feel anger?

Chessfan · 28/09/2024 17:50

You have a choice to get in control of this, which would mean going no contact with your family, and seriously prioritising your mental health. Right now you're seeing everything through a very warped lens because of those two huge factors. There's no other way to deal with this. The family is abusive and you're very caught up in the web of it all, and you're being dragged even further in by your own mental health issues. You'll stay there forever unless you deal with both now.

Ilovelurchers · 28/09/2024 17:51

I have found reading this thread quite troubling. I think that OP is really quite unwell and in need of help - the extreme levels of trauma she ascribes to fairly low level life events; the diagnosing/demonising of family members, including a 90 year old man suffering from dementia who is a carer to his violent mentally ill daughter; various other strange details (joints caving in due to menopause?) - it's really uncomfortable. I think this is a person very unwell, suffering a lot inside her own head and in need of immediate help. If she does have children who are partially dependent on her too, it's a real recipe for chaos.

I know pretty much all posters are being very compassionate and really trying to help by thoughtfully take the time to listen and safe ideas. BUT I feel like it's potentially just stoking the flames of OP's distress, taking her off down different mental rabbit-holes of self-diagnosis, or reinforcing her distressing delusions of victimisation etc etc.

Whereas I am pretty confident that what she really needs is a real life intervention. And I hope she has family or friends who can get her that. Wishing you peace and strength OP, and my advice would be to stop reading now and reach out for real life help. Life doesn't have to feel like this.

Blanketyre · 28/09/2024 18:01

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 17:23

sure will

I really think you ought to OP.

If this is an unmedicated and sober stream of consciousness then I am concerned for you.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:08

Wow blanketyre but okay Smile

OP posts:
Uricon2 · 28/09/2024 18:13

Less introspection and more action (especially around a DH who sounds utterly and irresponsibly flakey) would help you OP, but I get that you are not in a place to do that yet, so I suggest that you explore all and every possibility of getting to a point where you are. Different therapy, a diagnosis, lots of things.

I also think that you may currently not be able to see that your DF wanting his money to go where is will do some good and not enable a SIL he clearly does not like is not directed at you personally, however it felt/feels.

wrongthinker · 28/09/2024 18:19

Ilovelurchers · 28/09/2024 17:51

I have found reading this thread quite troubling. I think that OP is really quite unwell and in need of help - the extreme levels of trauma she ascribes to fairly low level life events; the diagnosing/demonising of family members, including a 90 year old man suffering from dementia who is a carer to his violent mentally ill daughter; various other strange details (joints caving in due to menopause?) - it's really uncomfortable. I think this is a person very unwell, suffering a lot inside her own head and in need of immediate help. If she does have children who are partially dependent on her too, it's a real recipe for chaos.

I know pretty much all posters are being very compassionate and really trying to help by thoughtfully take the time to listen and safe ideas. BUT I feel like it's potentially just stoking the flames of OP's distress, taking her off down different mental rabbit-holes of self-diagnosis, or reinforcing her distressing delusions of victimisation etc etc.

Whereas I am pretty confident that what she really needs is a real life intervention. And I hope she has family or friends who can get her that. Wishing you peace and strength OP, and my advice would be to stop reading now and reach out for real life help. Life doesn't have to feel like this.

I completely agree and have commented several times suggesting proper psychiatric help is needed, and that this analysis of others/the situation is not helpful. OP interprets this as anger and projection. I'm not sure, but maybe the thread should be reported and MN asked to take it down. I feel pp are not helping by engaging in the OP's stories about her family.

Gemmy96 · 28/09/2024 18:30

Ilovelurchers · 28/09/2024 17:51

I have found reading this thread quite troubling. I think that OP is really quite unwell and in need of help - the extreme levels of trauma she ascribes to fairly low level life events; the diagnosing/demonising of family members, including a 90 year old man suffering from dementia who is a carer to his violent mentally ill daughter; various other strange details (joints caving in due to menopause?) - it's really uncomfortable. I think this is a person very unwell, suffering a lot inside her own head and in need of immediate help. If she does have children who are partially dependent on her too, it's a real recipe for chaos.

I know pretty much all posters are being very compassionate and really trying to help by thoughtfully take the time to listen and safe ideas. BUT I feel like it's potentially just stoking the flames of OP's distress, taking her off down different mental rabbit-holes of self-diagnosis, or reinforcing her distressing delusions of victimisation etc etc.

Whereas I am pretty confident that what she really needs is a real life intervention. And I hope she has family or friends who can get her that. Wishing you peace and strength OP, and my advice would be to stop reading now and reach out for real life help. Life doesn't have to feel like this.

Absolutely.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:33

SophiaCohle · 28/09/2024 17:10

I do feel I need to stop giving it oxygen. My dad is too far gone, I just want to make his last years happy. Re my sister, I'm fantasing that she'll say 'were you okay at the 90th birthday party?'. I'll say 'Thankyou for asking, but maybe don't start a conversation that you are not willing to finish, that you will just shut down when it feels too difficult." Then we'll stop talking. That is the current roadblock - she's unwilling to talk things through.

I do understand the urge to set her straight, but please think about just letting it all go. By engaging with her at all, you continue to tether yourself to her. She is pushing your buttons like an elevator operator at the moment, and you and your mental health don't need it, and won't benefit from it. All of this creates drama, and the drama heightens your already big emotions. As someone who has lived with family estrangement for many years now, I can promise you that walking away will lighten your load more than you ever imagined, even though it denies you the opportunity to give all the best lines to yourself.

Thankyou Sophia. I love your line 'giving all the best lines to yourself'.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:43

I'm not getting whipped up by people listening to my story. That's really helpful.

But people pathologising me as needing urgent psychiatric help - that's disturbing tbh.

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:44

The only thing dicey about me rn is that I'm on Mumsnet. But so are you taking to me!

OP posts:
almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:46

I'm just trying to regulate tbh but there are too many people on here with their own anxieties

OP posts:
DreamHolidays · 28/09/2024 18:54

The situation is incredibly complex. I also suspect most of the people involved are ND. There is so much rigidity from everyone.

@almondmilk123 have you ever tried to be assessed re autism?

fwiw overanalysing situations can be part of autism. Because when you live in an NT world being ND, in some ways, you have no choice but to analyse, look for patterns to be able cope.

almondmilk123 · 28/09/2024 18:58

DreamHolidays · 28/09/2024 18:54

The situation is incredibly complex. I also suspect most of the people involved are ND. There is so much rigidity from everyone.

@almondmilk123 have you ever tried to be assessed re autism?

fwiw overanalysing situations can be part of autism. Because when you live in an NT world being ND, in some ways, you have no choice but to analyse, look for patterns to be able cope.

Yeah maybe re other posters esp rigid ones. I hold my hand up to being ND and I overanalyse like f* but I also apply that to the mystery of other peoples subjectivity which makes me almost too open minded

OP posts:
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