I've been on a few times about ongoing probs but cannot decide what to do for the best

[curlywurlywee]

About 6 weeks ago, my h hit me (the second time he has done it) and hurt me in the small of my back (handprint and raised red weals, lots of pain). It was over something really petty, our dd had a friend round and they were hitting him and laughing. He got in a strop (due to probs at work) and came into the kitchen clutching his side and saying he was in agony and saying I should have intervened. I told him he was the dad and should be able to deal with it himself and they were only 5 year olds. With that, he said, "I'll show you how much it hurt" and he lifted my shirt up and slapped me with all his strengh on my back. Not sorry afterwards in fact left the house with me in agony and came back later still not sorry. I went out cos I couldn't face him and when I came back he locked me out of the house for a bit. This was the final straw for me. We have been having probs for year. He has a stressful job and I am his whipping boy. To give you examples of what he's like, I gave him a lovely children's book about fathers for fathers day and he got angry and said why had I bought him a children's book, should have spent more money on him like a CD and told me to get the book out of the house. I was distraught and destroyed the book, which he then got angry with me for. He doesn't like me using my mobile, doesn't like my friends coming to the house, dislikes my friends and is very antisocial. Has a go at me if there is a food item not in the house that he wants (I should be able to maintain the house properly and never run out of anything).

Basically, he has now admitted that he has put me through hell over the last five years and accepts that him hitting me was unnacceptable and that we should split. He is seeing a counsellor who has told him that he behaves like a child most of the time due to his strict upbringing, but he went for counselling a year ago and still hasn't managed to sort all this out and behave like an adult, although he has improved.

My dilemma is that should I stay and give it another go or should I end it? I don't believe he will ever change - he behaves like a spoilt little brat most of the time - it's in his personality and I hate it.

I have one friend who thinks I should give it another go and others who say, get out quick. I've got a teenage dd who hates him aswell from a previous marriage. I feel stigmatised about having two failed marriages (first h went off with another woman). I can't make a decision and am feeling really low today. Have been really strong and think I'm still in shock from the violent episode - still can't cry properly but not coping with 5 year old very well.

The CAT thing does come though to your email Curly. I have a separate email account with a password so P can't access it. I did catch him trying one time though

I would love to do a counselling course Curly! In fact I have been looking into it but they are so expensive.

As for the stepford wife thing, yes it does all sound familiar. My P would like me to bring money in but only from a job that he would be happy with me doing, i.e. teaching assistant, work with kids (no men), work school hours so he has me home in the evenings, no requirements for him to share the childcare as I would be home in the school holidays and no work at weekends so he is free to enjoy his hobbies while I take care of the house and childcare! Sounds grim doesn't it?

I have the meals thing too, he won't eat this and he won't eat that but when at his mothers or be out anywhere he will gladly eat it!

Can I ask you Curly, do you find yourself seeking his approval? For instance, do you ask him what he would like for his tea? Do you ask him if he enjoyed his meal? Do you ask him if he likes your hair or how you look? Do you invite a response from him over things or does he just offer one. The reason I ask is that my P does not ever offer me a compliment, not in any area. I used to ask him if he enjoyed his tea or if he thought I looked nice etc but this always brought a negative response which in turn led to an outbrust or me just simply depressed and demoralised. I don't ask anymore. I know in my own mind that my hair looks nice or that the meal i have cooked is good. By not asking him I don't get disappointed. A couple of years back I did ask him why he never told me I look nice. His reply was that if he starts telling me I look nice I will go off with other men. Thats how insecure he is. He seems to think by not praising me, by undermining my confidence, he will keep me.

If you are going to stay with him Curly there are lots of things I can tell you to make your life better, easier. It is possible that you can be happy with him, that you can be happy together, you just have to learn how. The first thing you have to do though is recognise that he is not a bad man, he has a problem. He doesn't mean to hurt you, he doesn't want to hurt you. When he does hurt you it is because he is hurting, then when he realises he has hurt you, it causes him even more pain which he projects onto you. It's a vicious circle for him and a nightmare for you.

He may never change, I add 'may' in there because a part of me doesn't want to really believe that my P will never change, ever the optimist that I am , but when you change the way you respond and react you will notice a change in him. It all depends on whether you want to stay with him.

If you would like Curly I will CAT you my mobile number. That way, if you need to 'talk' you can text me and we can either post on MN or text replies. I have facebook if that is any good? We could email on there.

Sorry, I have to chip in here.

I think TFM has made choices I would find hard to stick with. TFM you're being very constructive, you're learning lots about why and so on your partner behaves the way he does, but at the end of the day you are still the one bending over backwards to make life bearable, whether it's by putting up with abuse or finding ways to change his behaviour, it all seems to be about what YOU can do.

These men have a million reasons to be the way they are. Fred West probably had his reasons too, and Rose sympathised. Doesn't mean they're a great couple.

CurlyWurly I hope you realise you are a fab Mum, every kid will have tantrums, I don't think I grew out of mine til I was 16 ;) I used to scream at my Mum that I hated her, and I've had the same thing from kids I look after. They are just growing in independence but still need their parents and depend on them totally, and are quite conflicted by this. Tantrums are a way for 5 year olds to express themslves (they're not very eloquent at this age ;) but you are doing the right thing by setting boundaries. They look to you to tell them when it's acceptable to rage and rant, and when they need to learn self control. Your DD won't have much self control yet, but don't worry. You are a very thoughtful, giving person and even if you find things hard and shout every now and again you won't scar her for life. You'll just show her that strong emotions happen from time to time, I'm sure you tell her that you are wrong sometimes but you love her and expect her to try her best to behave nicely or whatever.

I had an ex-P who was a bit fried from drug taking in the past. He could be the most adoring, wonderful man, but he could also get into strange moods, walk out of the house and not come back. The worst time I can recall was while we were staying with a friend in Paris for the weekend, he decided he "didn't like being in someone else's space" and was so uncomfortable he walked out of her flat without saying a word to me, left his passport, clothes etc and checked into a hotel. I couldn't reach him by mobile, as he'd turned it off. I ended up paching the streets of Paris all night looking for him while I was supposed to be having a romantic Valentine's break. Typical pushing me away behaviour, being ashamed of himself, etc etc.

In the end I just couldn't take any more. I wasn't allowed to even speak to the friends of HIS that he brought to our flat (I was flirting and he KNEW that I was attracted to so-and-so and that I was a whore who didn't deserve him, etc etc).

After a while he told me he was moving to California where he'd have some time to figure out how he could deal with his problems. I was doing a course and changing career too (hmmm, strange how we all seem to be following similar patterns!) which probably freaked him out a bit, but I went out to see him during my three month break before the course started - he woke me up several nights shouting that he KNEW I was cheating on him or would do soon, he KNEW I was only using him, mind you he was the only one that'd want me considering how messed up I was (I had suffered from anorexia a couple of years before I met him)

Then he'd beg forgiveness and asked me to go to Vegas and get married, he would move out of London to Norwich and we'd get a house and he could work from home and look after our kids while I went to work because he knew my new career was so important to me....

God, it was exhausting. Thankfully I carried on travelling on that 3 month break and just realised how great I felt without all the stress and nonsense. I was recovering from feeling so awful about myself wrt my weight and how I'd always felt myself unlovable (my mother had made such a big deal out of what I ate when I was a kid, took me to aerobics at 6 etc trying to get me to loose weight, I felt really worthless), had so much therapy and just decided that I was worth MORE than trying to make everyone else happy by being thin / perfect partner.

When we were both back in the UK I told him I didn't want him moving to Norwich. I would be fine on my own thanks.

And I have been. I've done really well in my new job, I now have a DP who worships me (which is strange to adjust to! but lovely) and I am so proud that I have been through so much crap in my life and come out the other side.

It's not too late for you, you have two lovely daughters, the eldest sounds like she's supportive of you, you are worth so much more than this, believe me. I do hope thigns work out for you, but I'd urge you to get rid. Sorry to be so negative but once the weight is lifted I hope you'll realise that life doesn't have to be spent dancing to someone else's twisted tune. Not your parents, not someone else's. Their problems, their lookout, thanks but no thanks.

TFM you are a very different woman to myself. I understand people have problems and they can usually be explained. Poor DH probably has a million reasona for being a shit just as I had a million reasons for trying to starve myself to death, but ultimately I had to take responsibility for myself and figure out a way to get better.

As much for the fact I could wind up an invalid or in a psychiatric ward, as that I was torturing everyone around me. My mother, my friends, my colleagues were all having to pick up my slack because I would be signed off work for weeks at a time.

I could look into my past and say, I was beaten every day for several years, to the point I wasn't allowed into the school playground because I was the "fat kid"

My family only ever got pleasure from food as my father was suicidally depressed throughout my childhood years and my mother was overbearing about how much I weighed and then would give me a bounty bar to "cheer me up"

at the end of the day, I had to make a decision NOT to inflict MY problems on other people or myself. You have a choice to make, be happy or give up. I'm more proud of myself for getting out of a sit. with my health and a really messed up relationship than anything else I've done.

good luck ladies, remember you are stronger than you give yourselves credit for and none of this is your fault. Circumstances can be awful but it is just that - chance combination of circumstances.

It is about what I can do NN but, the things I do bring about positive changes in P's behaviour. It's not all doom and gloom

It is hard work though sometimes and it is exhausting. I am learning how to live with it because at this moment in time I don't want to leave. My circumstances are as such that it wouldn't be easy for me to leave so, I am doing my utmost to make the best of what could be a bad situation.

I am not encouraging Curly to stay with her H. Whether she stays or leaves has to be her decision and hers alone. I just hope that by sharing my experience I am giving her knowledge that will help her to cope while she is with her H.

I am pleased that you managed to leave your relationship NN and that you now have a wonderful partner

I know I am strong NN, I give myself lots of credit for that and don't doubt it for one minute. I wouldn't be here now if I weren't strong. I think my strength is my downfall sometimes.

;) Yah, I can see how much you've helped her on here. I am pretty gobsmacked by how strong you are staying, I think sometimes I'm pretty intolerant of messed up people's destructive behaviours, having been one myself!

I set myself pretty high standards regarding mental health and expect other people to live up to them too, so I'm probably my own worst enemy in a way, but it does mean I don't put up with any crap.

If proving to myself that I can put up with abuse and help someone change is at the expense of my own happiness, then it's just not worth my time. Glad you are content and staying is what you want like I said we're pretty different and I don't want to knock your way at all!! aint life interesting.

it sure is!

timeformeand curlywurly reading your threads is like reading about my life and i confess i am actually releived that there are others like me [in the nicest way] i am embarresed in rl to mention things to friends or family cos we split up when i became pregnant with lo and had to basically flee to my parents in another country we made up an my mom is now of the opinion your bed etc and so all the stuff that happens i pretend does'nt and a copuple of nights ago because my sister had been to visit in the day and i had taken the rubbish out dh was convinced we had been drinking wine all afternoon plotting how i would leave him it resulted in a really awful row with me wishing him dead after he told me i was the biggest slut tart in the area etc to which i did say i was gonna leave but like you tfm i just cannot do it at the moment and i do as you do and just think i will never rely on him and do actually feel sorry for him.

Hi Bambam I am sorry that your situation isn't good. I hope you find our posts helpful. I used to think I was the only one living like this and was relieved to find out I wasn't. If you are unable to leave, for whatever reason, you have to find a way that enables you to live safely.

Bambam do you have a local refuge? Even if you are unable to leave they will support you. My local centre runs a support group and they have a floating support worker who offers all the help and advice needed. It is always nice to know that you have back up should you need it.

Nifty Nanny - it's very helpful to me to see these two different views - gives me plenty to think about.

Hi TFM, how are you - hope you had a good weekend. I had a tiring weekend on my course, would you believe it, one of the days was on couples counselling!!

I went on Friday night but had to come home again because I was so upset - I just couldn't keep it together. Am feeling better now but H told me last night that he has got the rented house and is moving in at half term.

I don't really feel anything at the mo apart from an awareness of awful anger and wanting to tear his head off. I need to talk to him about finances etc but can't face it. I'm back in no man's land again and feeling nothing very much.

Looks like it's really happening then.

How was your weekend?

Hi Curly

A lot can happen between now and half term
Do you actually want him to go? I suppose that could be a silly question really. You will probably be feeling all over the place at the moment.

How is he with you generally? Does he talk to you or does he ignore you? Is there moments when he is nice and you can see the man you love?

Did you ask him about the house or did he offer you the information? How did you react?

Sorry for all the questions. It's the CSI agent in me I can't help but analyse the situation.

All is well here. I have had a good weekend. We have had some family time which was good. So, so far so good. I'm sorry it's not the same for you xx

Hi Curly How are you today? I hope you are feeling brighter and more positive xx

Hi TFM, having a bad day today and am full of anger. H told me this morning that his counsellor is shocked at my awful behaviour and they have been talking about and analysing me. How can she do this, she knows nothing about me. How does he expect me to behave towards him? I'm still doing his washing, ironing, cooking his meals and on top of that he wants me to like and respect him after what he's done. I feel sick to the stomach.

We're not really talking at the moment. We can talk civilly to each other some of the time, especially in front of the kids. Ihave no feelings for him, in fact I hate him and can't accept that he now seems to be turning things on me (or perhaps that's my own paranoia).

I'm all over the place and can't stop crying. It's embarrassing as I'm walking through town and crying. I'm so confused and so full of shame - I can't seem to get past that bit of it. I keep thinking of what I could have done differently because I am aware that I have to take some responsibility for this mess.

I feel like crap and don't feel like I can go through all this. I did speak to H about splitting up and whether it was what he wanted but he says that he needs to go because it's so awful being at home (which is true I suppose).

What a shitty mess!

Oh curly poor you. I know how it is when you break down in public and you feel soooo silly. But it's not silly, you're allowed to feel awful when someone seems to be doing their best to make you feel that way.

I very much doubt his counsellor would comment on you. They're supposed to be impartial, aren't they? Supportive, but non judgmental. It's probably him trying find reasons to abuse you (she MADE me do it, she left me in a room with my own children! gosh! shock horror! pffft) and making them up as part of the pushing you away behaviour. Now it looks as though you've had enough, he HAS to convince himself it's you with the problem, or he'd have to take a long look at himself, and I doubt he'd like that.

You are worth so much more than this, you're human and are being pushed to your limits then made to feel bad about reacting to such stress

Remember the reason things are awful at home is because he has ridiculously high standards and bullies you when you don't live up to them. How can you do that though when he doesn't tell you what he wants? He's been really unfair.

Look after yourself dear. Every time he starts saying something negative about you, start thinking "you can't even deal with a boisterous 5 year old without lashing out at someone else, who has the problem here?"

It's NOT YOU
x

Thanks for that NN. It's just so bloody hard. I'm full of confusion and I have thought long and hard about my part in it all. No-one is blame free and neither am I and I had withdrawn from him and not wanted to have sex with him for a while now. Maybe I could have handled it differently. He admitted this morning that he had serious problems at work and then came home and "micro-managed" me and what happened at home. How was I supposed to respond to this? "I know you're under stress so just treat me how you want and I won't react". Some of my friends have said they wouldn't have put up with him for 5 minutes (they've seen his weirdness in action). He now wants me to feel sorry for him and be nice to him but I'm not inclined to be honest. I've said some pretty horrible things in the last week that I'm not proud of and I do feel this is my form of revenge. I should rise above this really.

It's the shame I can't deal with. My first H slept around with other women and now this. (ex H is still doing it now).

I suppose I'm asking "why me?" and why is it that my friends all have great relationships and I can't seem to manage it.

Curly, I am so sorry i didn't see this earlier.

I have to reiterate what NN has said, this IS NOT YOU!

He is blatantly lying to you with regards to the counsellor. No counsellor would discuss you or anything to do with you without you being present. You will be able to find information to back this up from the counselling course you are doing. God, I wish I could email you.

You have to be strong Curly, please don't let him do this to you. You have to believe taht you are not the prson he is making you out to be, he is projecting how he feels about himself on to you.

If this were me i would be spending as little time as possible around him. Withdraw from him. He has made his decision, he is leaving, you have nothing more to say to him. Do not reward his bad behaviour by trying to reason with him, do not engage in arguments with him, basically do not give him what he wants.

I am so sorry you are going through this Curly. Please, try to be strong. I know it is difficult when you are already feeling so low, thats why withdrawing from him is a good idea right now, it gives you a chance to pick your self up a little.

If you are anything like I used to be you will be doing your utmost to please him, to make him see that you are not the person he believes you to be. Well sod that for a game of dominoes!! Keep out of his way as much as possible!!!

Thinking of you xx

TFM thanks so much for your post. It has made me feel so much better. It would be good to e-mail but if I set up a password to my e-mail account now, it wouldn't go down very well. I could e-mail you with my mobile perhaps. You've given me your e-mail address already. So hard to hold onto my sanity at the moment.

I will help you anyway I can. It isn't that long ago I was feeling exactly the same way as you. Not anymore though! I know I am not a bad person and that I have done nothing except love and care for my P. I know it is he who has the problem. Once you start to believe that you will feel a whole load better. The book I told you about reinforced everything I was thinking but was too brainwashed to believe. I have gained a lot of strength from understanding how all this works and believ me, if you can adopt a certain attitude, if you can put yourself and your needs first you will get through this and come out of it a whole lot stonger.

Your H must be in a very bad place at the moment. I personally think it could be his leaving that is causing his behaviour, even though it is his decision. I am not excusing him for one minute, I am just trying to make you see that his behaviour his not about you, it is about him and his own demons.

I suppose Curly that we have to get selfish, we have to stop thinking about them and what they thing of us, their opinions have to matter not a jot! We have to believe in ourselves!!

xx

The thing is Curly, the more he puts you down the harder you will try to please him, you will dislike yourself for the nasty things you say so basically you will be joining him in putting you down. Arguing with him is a pointless exercise, he won't actually hear anything you say, he will take key words from what you say and make his own interpretation of it. You could be saying to him "I love you but I hate it when you treat me the way you do" He will hear "I hate you", then he has got exactly what he wants, he will feel justified in his attack of you. Do you see what I'm saying? Don't give him what he wants, don't feed his habitual behaviour of worming victim status out of you. I will tell you what helps me, now don't laugh but, when my P is off on one I sing Baa Baa black sheep in my head, very loudly! That stops me from taking the bait bet you think I'm a right barm pot!

Oh and another thing, when you withdraw from him, when you stop giving him what he wants you may find that he becomes all nice again. Now this is great, it really is but, you may begin to wonder if you imagined everything, if it was really as bad as you thought it was. The answer to that is YES, it was as bad as you thought it was. But also, please be aware that he hasn't changed, he is feeding you a line, he is being all charming to get what he wants. You may start to relax with him again, to the extent where to start to put demands on him for example, and once that happens so the cycle begins again.

My P has been fantastic for this past three weeks, I have had a dozen red roses, he has taken me out for meals, he has showered me with attention. Yes, I have accepted all the nice things, his nice mood, his loving gestures BUT, I haven't taken the bait. I am well aware of how the PA operates now nd I iwll not allow myself to be lulled back into his game. xx

Hi Curly. How are you? It would be good to hear you are ok. Thinking of you xx

Hi TFM. Sorry not been about much but am having some really bad days. Awful day today and went to a friend's house and cried on her shoulder for ages.

H is now moving out because he can't cope with my behaviour (being ratty, snapping) and yes, I am doing this - finding it hard to be nice to him. He tells me I should stop punishing him even though he understands I can't forgive him at the moment. He says I have a choice to behave like a reasonable human being. All this makes me hate him more and I end up hating myself. He is now saying that I have had a lot to do with the relationship breaking down, encouraged by his counsellor I think. I am beside myself with hurt and anger.

I feel like he's screwing with my head. I told him that he had an opportunity to turn it round and didn't choose it and is now saying that he's frightened of me. Words cannot express how this makes me feel after what he did. I pointed out to him that maybe now he has a small understanding of what he put me through every day for about 3 years.

Does he really expect me to treat him with respect and be nice to him?

I'm beginning to wonder whether it's been me all along and I'm so confused to the point of madness.

Anyway, hope you're OK and things going well for you. I'm going to e-mail you with my mobile and then I think I'd better stop posting on here as H said this morning that he thinks I've become a man-hater due to Mumsnet!! Words cannot express.

Hi Curly I understand totally what you are saying and what you are going through. At the moment it is a battle of wills between you, I know it may seem difficult to understand but, you are actually fighting for the same thing. He wants you to understand him and behave accordingly and you so desperately want him to understand you and how you are feeling and behave accordingly. The problem is, the wires are crossed, his needs will only ever be about himself, he won;t be stopping for one moment to see things from your point of view because as far as he is concerned he is the victim.

Really, the only way to diffuse this situation is not to argue with him. If he isists on talking at you then look at him, let him think he is being heard, nod your head and walk away. I know it's difficult, I really do, I have spent years answering back to my P but in the end I come out of it feeling totally confused, heartbroken and lost. Nothing of what he says ever makes sense and when I want answers he never replies. Its so frustrating.

I would question why, when he has already decided he is leaving, is he still arguing with you. Why is he not just getting on with planning his move? If you are such a bad person then why is he dragging out the move and continually causing arguments?

This would be the longest post in MN history if I was to explain why he is behaving as he is but Curly, it's NOT YOU!! You have to keep telling yourself it isn't you. This man is his own worst enemy. He wants you to love him but that makes him feel needy, because he feels needy he feels angry, because it is you he needs he projects that anger onto you. He will never tell you he loves you and doesn't want to leave, not off his own back. He will want you to do all the work, he will expect you to forgive him and brush everything under the carpet, he will be happy just to get on with things with no discussion about what has happened.

I can help you through this Curly, this is NOT YOU, none of this is you. xxx