I've been on a few times about ongoing probs but cannot decide what to do for the best

[curlywurlywee]

About 6 weeks ago, my h hit me (the second time he has done it) and hurt me in the small of my back (handprint and raised red weals, lots of pain). It was over something really petty, our dd had a friend round and they were hitting him and laughing. He got in a strop (due to probs at work) and came into the kitchen clutching his side and saying he was in agony and saying I should have intervened. I told him he was the dad and should be able to deal with it himself and they were only 5 year olds. With that, he said, "I'll show you how much it hurt" and he lifted my shirt up and slapped me with all his strengh on my back. Not sorry afterwards in fact left the house with me in agony and came back later still not sorry. I went out cos I couldn't face him and when I came back he locked me out of the house for a bit. This was the final straw for me. We have been having probs for year. He has a stressful job and I am his whipping boy. To give you examples of what he's like, I gave him a lovely children's book about fathers for fathers day and he got angry and said why had I bought him a children's book, should have spent more money on him like a CD and told me to get the book out of the house. I was distraught and destroyed the book, which he then got angry with me for. He doesn't like me using my mobile, doesn't like my friends coming to the house, dislikes my friends and is very antisocial. Has a go at me if there is a food item not in the house that he wants (I should be able to maintain the house properly and never run out of anything).

Basically, he has now admitted that he has put me through hell over the last five years and accepts that him hitting me was unnacceptable and that we should split. He is seeing a counsellor who has told him that he behaves like a child most of the time due to his strict upbringing, but he went for counselling a year ago and still hasn't managed to sort all this out and behave like an adult, although he has improved.

My dilemma is that should I stay and give it another go or should I end it? I don't believe he will ever change - he behaves like a spoilt little brat most of the time - it's in his personality and I hate it.

I have one friend who thinks I should give it another go and others who say, get out quick. I've got a teenage dd who hates him aswell from a previous marriage. I feel stigmatised about having two failed marriages (first h went off with another woman). I can't make a decision and am feeling really low today. Have been really strong and think I'm still in shock from the violent episode - still can't cry properly but not coping with 5 year old very well.

I think our low self esteem that plays a part in our choice of men Curly. In my case both men were charming in the first instance and made me feel loved and wanted, then when they showed their 'other side' I did what I had been conditoned to do, show them I was really a nice person and did whatever I could to make them see that. I didn't stand up for myself like I shoudl have because I didn't want them to think I was a bad person. Does that make sense? I couldn;t see that it was they who were in the wrong, I thought it was me. i was too busy trying to be what they needed me to be to love me that I lost all sight of myself. Never again!

TFM, you have obviously spent time looking at your part in it all and you're right - you do not come across as a victim at all. However, you obviously never deserved any of what happened to you - there's a bit of unlucky in there somewhere I'm sure. We are similar ages, I'm 42.

My parents were OK, just completely indifferent to me so I think I've been searching for love and I've taken it even when I saw warning signs that it wasn't healthy. H was my knight in shining armour and bowled me over with his attention and love. However, it was a controlling love and I saw warning signs but chose not to take any notice. I was so desperate not to be on my own, which actually does not bother me now - in fact I want to be on my own.

You're right though, we are responsible for ourselves and I have spent a lot of time blaming everyone else but now realise that it is my responsibility to look after myself because, let's face it, no-one else will or can.

I have suffered a lot with depression which hasn't helped either. It was postnatal both times but seems to hang around. I'm OK on the whole but have to be careful.

Question about CAT - how does it work - do the e-mails come through on your Outlook account or through Mumsnet? Need to look into it.

Once you have registered for CAT the MN team pass on an email to your personal email account, then you can email direct. It's just an initial contact thing so you don;t have to display your email address publicly. If you would like me to CAT you I can do that, you just have to edit your profile so that it enables another MN'er to contact you. The Mn team will then send you my message. I think I have got that right

I have suffered from depression too Curly but I think it is exaggerated by my circumastances. I was terribly depressed after the birth off dd and did put it down to postnatal depression but to be honest, I was having a really hard time with P and think that had more to do with it than the baby. I had his mother to contend with too which is another story

I don't think of myself as unlucky Curly, I think everything I have been through was meant to be, it enables me to share my experiences and help other people

That's a great way of looking at it. We certainly have plenty of life experiences to draw on when talking to others. I still wish it could have been different though because the pain is too much sometimes.

Dashing off to collect dd now so speak later hopefully. Take care.

You will get past that though Curly. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!

I'm dashing off to get mine too. Keep smiling! xx

Good morning Curly How are you feeling today? I hope you are feeling a bit brighter. I hope dd is ok too. Thinking of you xx

Good morning TFM. Hope you're OK too. Had a bad evening with dd. Walking on eggshells trying not to unleash the dragon! She went to a friend's for tea last night and had a temper fit there - very embarrassing. She had another one when we got home when daddy said she had to go for a bath - half hour melt down and another cbeebies ban. She seems to be getting it though because she nearly kicked off this morning so all I did was look at her and she said "OK, I'm already not allowed to watch cbeebies today and if I'm naughty again I won't be able to watch it tomorrow". It's so awful when she's on one.

I think I need to make some firm decisions because this no-man's land is worse than anything. Trying to be cheerful today because it is teenage dd birthday so have just baked a cake and we are going out tonight with her best friend and mum for a curry - will be good to get out of an evening as I find they are worse. Probably the same for you too. What about weekends for you? Nightmare isn't it - trying to keep everyone happy but failing miserably. Where abouts in the UK are you?

You sound a lot stronger today Curly, I'm pleased One of my favourite sayings is 'if you don't feel it, then fake it'. I have faked it a lot over the years but it does work. Just like you today, making an effort to be cheerful, thats good

I have been thinking about you and your little girl and her 'outbursts' I think you are doing exactly the right thing by setting limits and giving consequences if she should step over the boundary. I don't know if she has seen your H raging at you but she could be showing signs of learned behaviour. You do right to show her who is boss! It seems to be working too I did also wonder if she is just confused by everything, at age 5 they don't really know how to express how they are feeling do they. With lots of patience and understanding from you I am sure she will be fine. I don't know if this will work for you as the situation is different but, I look after a little boy occasionally who has autism. He goes into rages for no apparant reason and I have foud distraction to be helpful in calming him down. Drawing his attention to something else rather than allowing my attention to be drawn to his tantrum. now he knows that throwing a fit doesn;t have the desired effect he does it less often.

I am in quite a good place now Curly. Evenings and weekends used to be a nightmare, I dreaded them. I still do sometimes but, I have managed to find a way to deal with them that suits me. I have my own room and once all my jobs for the day are done I retreat to it. It's my haven and my saviour. As for weekends, I just take them as they come, I don't have any expectations of P whatsoever, I make my own plans with dd (my son is 16 so he does his own thing too, it's not cool to hang around with mum at 16 ) if P wants to join us or if he suggests we do something that is great, but if he doesn't it's no big deal anymore. I have found that the more dd and I make plans of our own the more P wants to join us. Like I have said before, I don't rely on him for anything. I don't set myself up for any falls these days. I do have the odd slip up though, that is usually after we have had a good run and P has been like any other partner, completely involved, loving and considerate. I let my guard down a little and do tend to expect more of the same. Then I will get a reminder that I am not involved with your regular guy.

I am in the Huddersfield area.

Curly, the first person that you should try to keep happy is you. You need to put your own needs first now, you need to take good care of yourself. If you are happy then your dc's will be happy. I promise you, once you start to feel happy with yourself keeping everyone else happy won't be any effort at all.

And remember, it is not your place or your responsibility to make H happy. that is an impossible task. Only he can do that. Once you stop trying to please him, to make him happy, to make him 'like' you, once you let go of that huge responsibility you will feel like a huge weight has been lifted from you.

TFM, if anything, she may have learned the anger from me. Because H does things in a passive aggressive way, he winds me up and then retires and refuses to communicate which makes me very angry and I'm then the one that gets upset and shouts.

The distraction technique is a good one and I do try to do that but when she's really going for it nothing works.

It must be good to have your own oasis. Does this mean that you live together just as friends? You sound like you're very intelligent - do you work at all? How old is your youngest? Sorry, don't have to answer all my questions. Just ignore them if you want to .

I am happy to answer any questions if it helps you.

Firstly, with regards to your dd, I did wonder if she had learned her behaviour from you but I didn't want to offend you Not that it's anything to be ashamed of, it's typical of the PA relationship. It's very unjust isn't it. I was just like you and, still can be sometimes but I have learned that me getting angry is giving him just what he wants. If I get angry and retaliate he claims victim status and feels badly done to, therefore I am the villain. He retreats and feels justified in doing so because as he see's it I have attacked him. I refuse to rise to the bait these days.

Do we live together as friends, I suppose we do really. I do value him as a friend. It sounds strange that doesn't it? We do have a relationship but I have to love him in a detached way in order for it to work. I live in such a way that protects me from his PA traits. This may sound a strange way to live but it does work for me, it works for us. I am sure I would not be able to live with him if I did not have my own space, my little retreat. This may sound odd too but now I don't rely on him at all we are actually really good friends, without the pressures or expectations of a 'normal' relationship things are good. It's when I slip up and put 'demands' on him, or as he see's it, thats when things hit the fan. It's not that I'm unhappy, I am happy with my life, I just feel a bit sad sometimes that I don't have the closeness of a partner.

No, I don't work at the moment. I am looking at returning to study though. Work is one area that doesn't go down too well with P, he feels very threatened by it. Thats why I wondered if your new job was triggering your H's reaction. I have mentioned returning to college and that caused a severe frown fom my P. I won't be intimidated by it though. I will do it.

My youngest dd is just 5, same as your dd

Have you decided what to do? Do you think you will leave?

bev hanson 40 @ hotmail dot co dot uk is my email if you should want to talk privately

hi, just want to say, agree with everything timeforme has posted, brilliant advice

i have also got the book 'living with the passive aggressive man' after seeing it recommended on mn, and it's been a lifesaver for me: helping me to see how dh mind works, strategies for me to be able to live with him while being 'detached' brilliant, highly recommend it.

We should start our own support group

It may sound a funny thing to say but I feel I can start living again now. I have also started to 'like' my P again now I understand him. The book has been a life saver for me too.

TFM, support group sound like a good idea! Seems like there are many of us out there.

That is a dreadful thought that I may have contributed to dds temper problems. I find that hard to live with. My moods change as the day goes on. I just feel so ill at the moment - I've got pains everywhere and am worried about my health, as normal.

It's all too much really or feels like it at the moment. I don't think I can do what you do, I'm not very good on the self-control and I deep down blame myself for both failed marriages (first h cheated on me lots). But then I blame myself for everything anyway.

Sorry, feeling low at the moment.

You don't have to apologise for being low I was very low a short while ago and I found it difficult to follow my own advice. Maybe you just need some time to wallow, wallowing is good for the soul too you know, you don't have to try to be string all of the time. When you are ready to take action, whatever that action may be, you will know.

As for your daughter, don't feel bad, it's not your fault. She is probably just reacting to everything that is going on and feeling confused. Being so little she doesn't know how to handle her feelings and it could be coming out as angry outbursts. Maybe your little one is feeling insecure and just needs some reassurance. I was wondering how she is at school, if she has any problems there or if she is a little angel

You do blame yourself a lot don't you We need to get you out of that cycle!! As far as your H goes, something you say or do could be the trigger but you are not the cause. You don't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it. It is not your fault!

Also remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. If you work on raising your self esteem your H will have a much harder time bringing you down.

I don't know if it is any help to you but I found the supplements St Johns wort and 5HTP a great help. They lifted my depression and helped me to sleep. Once you ar ein control of the depression it is easier to handle everything else.

Hi TFM, how are you today? I've had a very busy couple of days, big dd birthday etc etc. We've got the builders in replacing artex on a water damaged ceiling and new washing machine delivered yesterday doesn't work!! Great!

Feeling a bit brighter today, despite the fact that H is hearing about whether he's got his rented house or not. He's working from home today so am grabbing the computer while I can.

He's still being difficult about petty stuff and I've come to the realisation that he's never going to change. I think it's curtains.

Hope you're OK and been thinking of you. Take care.

Hi Curly I am good thank you. Things are on an even keel here at the moment, thankfully. It's hard to relate the man I am living with now to the man I was living with a couple of months ago. It's like i have two different partners!

I have been thinking about you too, a lot! I refrained from posting yesterday, I don't want you to think I am hounding you

I am glad you are feeling brighter. You will cope with things much better if you feel on top of things. Is he definately going then? Has he told you about the house or have you seen the details? Has he discussed how you will handle things, i.e. telling the children, finances, access to the children?

The reason I ask is to determine if he actually means what he says, if he really is planning to leave or if this is a PA ploy to win you round. Yes, they do play games like this and they do take them to the extreme, my P definately does!

When he is being petty, when he is talking to you just look at him as though you are listening, let him think he is being heard. Agree with him and then walk away as soon as you can. He will be appeased and he won't have reason to rage at you. At least if he is not raging at you you get a break, the petty stuff is much easier to cope with than a full blown rage.

Please keep posting won't you. I do think about you and wonder how you are coping. Don't ever think I won't be interested or won't want to know. xx

What a lovely post and I'm glad things are good for you at the moment.

Good day has now turned bad and we had a blazing row this morning - no kids around to hear it thankfully. He is such a tw*t. I want to swear for England at the moment. He was working from home today and we were expecting the builders and the washing machine people. When he works from home, he does not go out so I was going to do the shopping and asked him if he could just let the washing machine people know what was happening. He said OK. I then got a call from a friend who asked if I wanted to go for a coffee so I said I would meet her and do the shopping in the afternoon as I needed to stay out of the house most of the day anyway. H was listening to this. I then rang the washing machine people to ask what time they were coming and they couldn't be sure so then H said that he would have to nip out and I shouldn't have made arrangements to go out socialising and drinking coffee when he was supposed to be working from home and couldn't be disturbed (not even to just let someone in the door for 5 minutes). What a jerk of the highest order. I flipped out and screamed at him that I hated him and he was a bastard. I really went for him and it felt good - it was like I was offloading all my anger at what he's put me through. He screamed back aswell. I have been at home all week dealing with household stuff and he has just relinquished all responsibility for everything.

He hates me having friends and meeting them for what he calls 'socialising' when I should be at home doing domestic stuff.

Anyway, this has clinched it for me - that is the end. He hasn't mentioned the house yet but I want him out of my life as he will never change. I really do hate him now. We have talked about the house and money although he doesn't want to give me as much as I think I need.

Do you think I'm being over the top to do what I did? Could he not just help me just once and take some responsiblity? I've completely lost track of what is OK and what's not now.

Sorry for this rant. I also have another urine infection and am in pain all the time and now feel exhausted because of my outburst. Life is sh*t. Sorry again. Hope your day is going well.

Oh Curly, please forgive me but I am smiling as I read your post. Simply because a short while ago I could have been the one who wrote it. Please, please, please, read the book 'Living with the passive aggressive man' I am not joking, you reyes will be pened and you will feel such relief at discoverig that you are not going mad! What you have just described is so typical of a PA. They do agree to do things for you but then let you down, just as you described, then they turn it around onto you. They set you up for a fall and then when you get angry they claim to be the victim. I have been there so many times. That is why I do not under any circumstances rely on P for anything. I will ask my 16 yr old son for help with things around the house rather than ask P, in fact, I regard my son as the man of the house.

No, I do not think you were ut of order or over the top. I think you reacted in a perfectly normal way but, you are not dealing with a 'normal' man.

I would lay money on it that he has no intentions of leaving you either. This is also part of PA behaviour. I hope that doesn't upset you and, if you really do want to split with him I hope for your sake that he does go. When my P is having one of his 'episodes' he always wants me to leave. I have lost count of the number of houses I have been to view. It never comes off though because he doesn't really want me to leave. That is why this latest episode was the worst I have ever experienced with him because I was making arrangments of my own, he was out of control and he really did believe he was going to lose me.

I would suggest that from now on you do not rely on him for anything, not a thing. I know this will be difficult for you to get your head around because he is your husband, your partner and he has a role but, I promise you, things will improve ten fold for you when you are not invlved in these constant conflicts. You will have space to gather strength and to get your wits about you. Also, if you want to separate from this man then i would also suggest that you sort everything out yourself, again, don;t rely o him for any help. But do expect opposition from him. My P was opposing me on our dd's school. He forbid me to leave the area as it would mean her moving schools. In the end I simply refused to discuss anything with him. I tild him if he had nothing helpful or constructive to add then I would not be discussing things.

I'm so sorry that you are going through all this Curly. I wish I could give you more help than just post over the internet. I know exactly how you must be feeling. But be strong, don't let him get you down. try to remember that he isn't on the same wavelength as you, that he interprets almost everything you say as an attack which creates a fear in him that you are going to abandon him, this makes him feel needy and so makes him hate himself which then comes out as anger towards you. I know it's difficult but try not to take it personally.

Thinking of you lots xx

Wise words again TFM - wish we lived nearer then we could meet up.

You're so right - he sees everything as an attack on him when actually, it's just real life happening. The only way to please him would be to turn into a Stepford Wife - cook him wonderful meals (only the ones he wants of course), ensure that the house runs smoothly at all times, never slip up on anything domestic, have no friends, speak to no-one, bring money into the house so I could provide for myself and not take any of his, never do anything independently, tell him I worship him 10 times a day, have sex on his demand (yuck to that), perhaps you're getting the picture. Does this stuff sound familiar to you? Perhaps not the work bit but maybe the rest of it.

It's awful to think that you almost start to believe that their way is right. Some friends have had to take me up on this when I've excused the odd bit of behaviour from him.

He doesn't want me to be happy or have any independence. I am unable to ask him to do anything round the house because he gets angry. If I do, I have to creep and beg and be extra nice. I hate him at the moment. Thanks again for your common sense and support - you are lovely.

I would like to e-mail you but I'm worried that H will find them and any replies from you. I think I've asked this before but if I arrange for CAT, will all messages (apart from the confirmation one) come through on Mumsnet?

Going out to my course now. Don't think I've mentioned it before, I'm doing a counselling course, which I'm on most of the weekend. Will come back on maybe tonight or tomorrow evening. Take care.