My mum is the biggest conflict in my life-i dont know where to go from here

[Helpmeout99]

Where to start? I am in my mid 40s with a good job, 3 fantastic children and a husband I have been with since my teens who is my best friend and loves me to bits. We have a good life and great relationship and I feel blessed for that.
Now to the issue… my Mum. My Mum is a very intelligent woman who can be very nice and to all outsiders would seem lovely but she has always been a very controlling and critical woman behind closed doors and has had many bust ups with myself and older brother over the years. She used to write us awful letters when we displeased her, my husband recently found some and burned them as he didnt want me to re read them. It always follows the same pattern of her being nice, helpful with the children etc then if we dare to disagree with her on anything she will blow up, it is always nasty comments that she knows will cause the most hurt. My brother has little to do with her and we both suspect she has a personality disorder- namely victim narcissistic disorder. She will never ever accept she does any wrong, gaslights constantly and fires about how we could treat her so badly! In the past this has led to me always apologising just to make things right and as a result i am an anxious people pleaser. She will the accept apology and be overly lovely- trying to buy affection with money, of which she has plenty.
my dad passed away a long time ago and although he loved her very much i suspect he was aware that she had issues as he was the only one who could stop her when she was at her most vicious. My brother and I both got an inheritance from my dad and this is frequently used against us … ie it paid for the extension and all she has done for us etc etc.
in recent years I have tried many times to talk to my mum as an adult about this behaviour but she completely denies it or accuses me of hating her and constantly bringing up the past, I do bring up things she has said as they hurt so much but she will never apologise and always puts herself in victim mode. She is currently staying in our spare room while waiting to move, brother refused to have her, and things are awful. She criticises everything and makes out she doesn’t and has no problems being vile to me when I end up getting frustrated and snapping. She ensure to only be like this when im alone with her, infront of my husband she is all sweetness and light. It came tp a head last week and my husband made everyone a cuppa and spoke to her about how her “fun comments” as she calls them affect me. He told her to stop with the nasty comments but she just repeated as always how difficult i am and how he must find the same and she feels sorry for him living with me! This did not go down well and that was her aim. My children are all aware of how manipulative she is- everything is a competition to her about why she is the best but also the most hard done by.
i currently feel uncomfortable in my own home and am counting down the days to her leaving.
I want to have a relationship with her as I love the nice side of her but the other side reduces me to a wreck. Everyone things she is wonderful and will tell me how lucky I am to have such a lovely Mum. How do I navigate this relationship?
I have already decided minimum contact once she is gone but It hurts my heart when I hear her tell my Uncle and her friends how awful and difficult I am and how badly I treat her when all she tries to do it help. All I want is a normal relationship like the wonderful one I have with my children. I could never contemplate treating them like this.
where do I go from here and how do I stop her getting under my skin the way she does? She is Jekyl and Hyde and I am constantly trying to navigate this very unstable and unhealthy relationship.
sorry for the long post but I could provide examples of behaviours that go one for days.

So sorry you have this deal with this.

The thing with a Narc is there is no conversation. They might play along to get information to hurt you with later , but that’s it. They do not have relationships like normal people. Unfortunately, and I’m sorry to say this you are not going to have the nice relationship with your mother that you want. You will need to control your interactions and set boundaries with her and it’s not going to be easy.

Look up Grey Rock method.

Other than doing that you need to control your space so she can’t. When she starts getting nasty with you, remind her this is your space and she only welcome in it if she acts in a way which is respectful to you and your space. Absolutely do not get emotional. Set whatever boundary you’re going to set once and then enforce it.

You really need her out of your home. It’s going to be best for you if you ask her to leave the next time she says anything nasty. Along the lines of; I love you but we can’t live together and I would like you out by x date. Then walk away. Stick with it.

You said she has plenty of money and there is no reason why she needs to stay with you if she can afford to support herself.

This whole situation is damaging for you, hurtful for your husband to see you treated like this and probably hurtful and damaging for your kids to see and experience too.

Dr. Ramani on YouTube is the lady I watched while navigating getting a narc out of my life, I recommend her videos.

she has shown you she won’t change or even acknowledge she is in the wrong. As hard as it is the best thing you can do is cut her off completely. You eill never have the relationship you crave. Don’t worry about what she tells people, people can see for themselves. One child not talking to her is one thing but both children indicate there is an issue with her.
good luck to you x

This is the epitome of a toxic relationship. She treats you like rubbish and u love her anyway. Of course u do. Please go as low contact as possible. X

If this was ur husband treating u like this it wud be considered domestic abuse. The only thing she isn’t doing it hitting u. Cut her off in hindsight. Low contact isn’t enough

I honestly don’t think it’s as simple as cutting her off. Especially when you have kids and siblings who have an okay relationship with the parent.

I lost my dad from whom I’d been estranged for 20 years. It was so painful, I could not do that again with my mother who is occasionally horrible but often okay. It’s the fact that her attitude and behaviour impacts my deeply that’s the issue, I feel, and I think the OP is similarly sensitive, that it’s actually manageable mostly and my deep emotional reaction is the biggest problem. I should not care as much, as she often shows she cares very little. But I cannot change the way it makes me feel. This may resonate with the OP or not, we are all different,

I took a trip with my mum and she was so awful at times, and lovely at other times. When she had a massive public rant I did the grey rock thing and she said something like ‘I don’t know how anyone puts up with you with that stupid €$%ing face you pull.’, clearly not knowing what it meant despite her being almost unhealthily obsessed with other people in her life being narcs.

I think my mum was raised by and attracted to narcissists and has somehow adopted behaviours: I do not think she was always this way. My mum has become addicted to
negatively sought attention (illness etc) and the ill treatment she has received has damaged her. She had a tough life and I think it’s small minded to dismiss and discard her, simply because she is horrible to me at times. I think she truly believes that I have it so much better than her I should never complain, and that’s the source of her anger. And she has no time for anxiety or worriers - which is a big problem for me.

I don't have a great relationship with my mother either, OP, you're not alone. I was estranged from my father for almost 30 years and never saw it heard from him at all in that time. He was violent and abusive and I suspect had a personality disorder of some kind. When I found out that he'd died (via Google) it didn't bother me at all.

With my mother it's mor complicated. She's very self-absorbed and everything is about her. Because of the violent marriage, I was parentified and she used me for emotional support, which she should not have done. It took me a long time to realise that I made all my decisions from a starting point of what would work for her, not what I actually wanted. Ruined our wedding, ruined the first year with my first baby. The straw that broke the camels back was 'you can't have another baby, it's too stressful for me.' Fortunately not long after the second baby (and us quadrupling our mortgage to live nearer to her because that's what she wanted) she moved to another country and contact was reduced to a couple of times a year, and even that felt like too much sometimes. Unfortunately she's now back 😞. I am having therapy at the moment to unpick it and work out strategies to cope. A huge part of the problem is, to put it bluntly, I don't like her very much and I resent her assumption that she's entitled to my time and attention. Every message she sends, which is now multiple times a day, is loaded with the weight of the last 40+ years. I'm doing CBT with EMDR with the goal of making me less physically reactive to her thoughtless behaviour. So I don't want to burst into tears every time she messages, but can just shrug it off. It's also helping me understand and keep in place the non negotiable boundaries.

The things that jumped out at me most from your post are that you're grieving for the mother you wanted and didn't get. It's hard to accept, if you've got sub par parents, that they will never be the parents you need and there's nothing you can do to change them. You're also not responsible for their happiness. It's not our job to fix their problems and trying won't make them treat us better, it just reinforces their belief that fixing them is our job.

One thing you said- that everyone thinks she's great and only you know what she's like, this is not true. People like this are often well known by others to be difficult and unpleasant, they go around saying bad things about others, and others know they do this. Your brother is no contact with her and I suspect the rest of the family would go a long way not to have her in the house either.

I would ask her to move to a hotel. In fact, my husband would ask her to move to a hotel to protect me and did once do that when my parent was being horrendous, just said they couldn't stay and asked them to leave, all very calm. Now they are not allowed to stay ever. Much nicer.

Btw I wanted to add, OP-

'fun comments' is gaslighting. It's a way of making you question your judgement by suggesting that the comments aren't awful when they are. Trust your gut.

The nice parts are the part of the game that keep you hooked. My father used to play this one. If they were awful all the time, you'd feel totally justified in cutting them off. But because they're not, it's much harder, and you seek ways to fix the bad parts and stop them. But you can't. It's a variable reward system (it's worth reading about these). I bet she's also unpredictable.

It's not your job to fix her life and make her happy.

You have managed five months of her living with you - no wonder it's taking its toll. Hopefully the end is in sight. I would perhaps have a date that is the max length to have her, 6 months is more than amazing and say if the situation is still ongoing she moves into a hotel, air bnb, another friend since she is so lovely or goes on a cruise!

I could have written your post myself. My mother was exactly the same as yours. My childhood has scarred my life but around the age you are now I finally got the courage to go no contact. I encourage you to do the same for your own sanity. Playing her game will eventually destroy your mental health. Like yourself I could give many examples of her downright devious behaviour towards me and my younger brother. Get her out and go no contact from someone who knows.

I’m sorry your mum is like this OP

PP are correct she will not change. Why has she been living with you so long? Does she actually have a property to move to or has she moved in without you realising?

If she can’t move out for now, you need to drop the emotional rope as much as you can. Don’t try reasoning or explaining why she is wrong. You will never get the relationship you want from her I’m afraid.

Let her ‘fun’ comments bounce off or fly over your head. Actually visualise this happening when she starts talking. Then give grey rock responses ‘ah ok’ ‘aha’ ‘right you are, oh I must get back to doing x’ and leave the room calmly. What a sad person she is that she needs to hurt you to get what she needs from you. Don’t give her what she wants. Once you realise it’s deliberate and there’s no truth to any of it it’s easier to laugh it off.

Next time she says ‘Your dad used to say you were……’ you could consider saying in a stern calm voice ‘No he didn’t. And if you ever say anything like that to me again, you won’t ever be welcome here again. That starts now. Do you understand?’ Or if you can’t do that, just laugh and say ‘as if’ and change the subject.

Hurrah for your DH!
💐

Thank u for your reply, she is having a house built which should be ready in the next 3 weeks or so… hopefully.
The manipulation and lies are worsening by the week- ridiculous things like telling my children she has paid for our holiday next year and they are surprised and thank her and it gets back to me and I have to tell them that it is a lie…. It is bizarre and makes me so cross but if I were to confront her it would just blow up and she would be the victim and accuse them of lying etc etc.
I am now trying the grey rock technique and just ensuring that my children are aware of the truth.
my mum has admitted that she has a personality disorder but will not seek help- she says she has never had a happy day in her life and there is always a reason for her misery. The truth is bad things have happened but no more so than in anyone elses life and in many ways she has had a good life, but she chooses the “poor me” route every time.
I can no longer be responsible for trying to make her happy and once she is in her new home contact will be minimal. I feel so sad and incredibly guilty but reminding myself that she has no guilt about her behaviour towards me helps.
I choose to be happy and to enjoy my life and will never ever be like her!
she has now said she does not want to come for Christmas and instead of trying to persuade her, which is what she wants as she loves being a martyr, I have just said ok thats your choice, you have always been welcome, but I accept your decision.
I am seeking counselling to help me with dealing with her x

It helps knowing I am not alone in dealing with this type of behaviour, I am so sorry for what you have been through.
Whenever I feel like I am getting through to her she will then revert to the same old behaviour and deny any knowledge of it, it is like im in groundhog day! I know now this will not change. She says her anxiety and control, which she will at times admit to, stems from her childhood but she will not seek help. I feel like I have to gentle parent my own mum!
I have chosen to not be the mum she was and have broken the cycle so why can she not try and change to? The truth is her behaviour is too ingrained and she does not see it as enough of a problem to work on and that means she does not care enough about the hurt she has caused me. When I raise things she has said she just says what about me and how much u hurt me as a teen when u got pregnant or didnt do what she wanted me to etc etc. She will take no responsibility and I feel has punished me my whole life for not being perfect, despite the fact O have been married 25 years and have a wonderful family, beautiful and successful career.
It will never change and all I can do is change my reactions and how much I see her once she has left.

Beautiful home that is meant to say

With the whole Christmas thing, she will probably be sad and sniffy after the event and telling anyone who will listen that you didn’t want her there.

And do you know what…. that’s absolutely fine… so what….prepare in your head now for this to happen and realise that that’s ok. Let her say what she likes. What I’m saying is, prepare your head for this sort of shite to happen and know that the sky won’t fall in when she bad mouths you. Fuck her. Drop the rope, let her go. It’s so freeing when you do.

So sorry she is like this, she sounds like my late nan, I don’t think she will change but you could record her when she’s in a rage and show her when she is calm

You are not the problem, she sounds awful.

I think your husband should tell her to either change her behaviour towards you or move out now. He should make it extremely clear that the whole family are sick of her behaviour and won’t tolerate it anymore.

I think she’s likely to get worse and worse as she ages unfortunately.

Sorry to read this, and I’ve had a quick skim of your responses to others and seen a fair few of us are in same place! I wonder if it is something about this older generation - I’m in a similar boat and currently having no contact with my mum - it’s only been a few weeks and stemmed from her but frankly, she’s such hard work that I’m not at all upset about it. I suspect she thinks I’ll be very sad and lost without her but it’s one less stress to deal with and given she is zero help anyway, very childish and I seem to only be loved by her conditionally which I’m frankly very over, so I’m winning really! I never ask for her help because it never really is any help - it sounds like you should avoid unless desperate!
I also keep getting a lot on my instagram that sums up everything I feel about if you want a relationship with my children then you need to learn and respect me (and my husband): the parents.

Get her out

It is damaging you and your family, and by extension your children

She needs to pay for an airbnb somewhere

Then have as little no contact as possible

I have similar with my mum. She gaslights me all the time - she is currently 'golden childing' my cousin's daughter as they live in the same village (for context I live 160 miles away and my sister is widowed - we both are - my sister has 2 teenage daughters and is self employed so as you can imagine doesn't have a lot of spare time). My cousin's daughter checks up on mum (what mum doesn't know is that I asked her to....). That aside she flat out lies, has constant digs and constantly tries to start arguments -she will come out with stuff she knows I don't agree with to try to get me to bite and then tell me I am being nasty and that she doesn't want to argue when I respectfully disagree. So I feel your pain.

Like others have said you either have to go low to no contact or just zone her out. It's tough when it is your mum, especially as you want to have a loving relationship but they are just not capable.