My mum is the biggest conflict in my life-i dont know where to go from here

[Helpmeout99]

Where to start? I am in my mid 40s with a good job, 3 fantastic children and a husband I have been with since my teens who is my best friend and loves me to bits. We have a good life and great relationship and I feel blessed for that.
Now to the issue… my Mum. My Mum is a very intelligent woman who can be very nice and to all outsiders would seem lovely but she has always been a very controlling and critical woman behind closed doors and has had many bust ups with myself and older brother over the years. She used to write us awful letters when we displeased her, my husband recently found some and burned them as he didnt want me to re read them. It always follows the same pattern of her being nice, helpful with the children etc then if we dare to disagree with her on anything she will blow up, it is always nasty comments that she knows will cause the most hurt. My brother has little to do with her and we both suspect she has a personality disorder- namely victim narcissistic disorder. She will never ever accept she does any wrong, gaslights constantly and fires about how we could treat her so badly! In the past this has led to me always apologising just to make things right and as a result i am an anxious people pleaser. She will the accept apology and be overly lovely- trying to buy affection with money, of which she has plenty.
my dad passed away a long time ago and although he loved her very much i suspect he was aware that she had issues as he was the only one who could stop her when she was at her most vicious. My brother and I both got an inheritance from my dad and this is frequently used against us … ie it paid for the extension and all she has done for us etc etc.
in recent years I have tried many times to talk to my mum as an adult about this behaviour but she completely denies it or accuses me of hating her and constantly bringing up the past, I do bring up things she has said as they hurt so much but she will never apologise and always puts herself in victim mode. She is currently staying in our spare room while waiting to move, brother refused to have her, and things are awful. She criticises everything and makes out she doesn’t and has no problems being vile to me when I end up getting frustrated and snapping. She ensure to only be like this when im alone with her, infront of my husband she is all sweetness and light. It came tp a head last week and my husband made everyone a cuppa and spoke to her about how her “fun comments” as she calls them affect me. He told her to stop with the nasty comments but she just repeated as always how difficult i am and how he must find the same and she feels sorry for him living with me! This did not go down well and that was her aim. My children are all aware of how manipulative she is- everything is a competition to her about why she is the best but also the most hard done by.
i currently feel uncomfortable in my own home and am counting down the days to her leaving.
I want to have a relationship with her as I love the nice side of her but the other side reduces me to a wreck. Everyone things she is wonderful and will tell me how lucky I am to have such a lovely Mum. How do I navigate this relationship?
I have already decided minimum contact once she is gone but It hurts my heart when I hear her tell my Uncle and her friends how awful and difficult I am and how badly I treat her when all she tries to do it help. All I want is a normal relationship like the wonderful one I have with my children. I could never contemplate treating them like this.
where do I go from here and how do I stop her getting under my skin the way she does? She is Jekyl and Hyde and I am constantly trying to navigate this very unstable and unhealthy relationship.
sorry for the long post but I could provide examples of behaviours that go one for days.

I’ve got one of these and I have to live with her due to financial/health reasons🙄. I spend a lot of time watching Dr Ramani videos on YouTube and reading about NPD. She winds me up until I snap and then tells everyone how horrible I am. The latest incident was her trying to turn my son against me which has completely freaked me out.the worst thing is that no one defends me….they think that because I’m benefitting financially, I have to put up with everything that’s thrown at me.

In your situation I’d be going NC or keeping contact to an absolute minimum. They never change. They build this persona for themselves but underneath they’re empty, bitter and have no identity. If you dare to threaten their delusion they project all their awful qualities onto you. It makes little sense but they all seem to act in the same way. Sometimes the advice is to ‘grey rock’ but I find that mother will keep testing ways of getting a response. They need a reaction and they’re like small children in that they want attention whether it’s positive or negative.

Dr Ramani on YouTube will be really useful. The behaviours are classic NPD.
I second the grey rock method. I use that with one but had no choice but No Contact with a sibling.
She needs out the house asap.

This sounds like a very difficult situation.

Your mother's tactics seem to follow the concept of "DARVO" - making herself out to be the victim and you the aggressor.

It's worth reading up on this behaviour - to realise you are being manipulated into believing you might be at fault when you are not.

Best wishes to you.

Understanding Darvo
DARVO is a manipulation strategy often used by individuals who feel threatened or defensive when confronted with their behaviour.
The acronym stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. Let's break down each component:

Deny
The manipulator denies any wrongdoing or responsibility for their actions. They may minimise their behaviour, downplay its impact, or outright deny any involvement.

Attack
Next, the manipulator may launch a counterattack, blaming the victim for the situation or accusing them of exaggeration, distortion, or outright falsehoods.
This attack is meant to shift the focus away from the manipulator's actions and onto the victim.

Reverse Victim and Offender
In this stage, the manipulator flips the narrative, portraying themselves as the victim and casting the actual victim as the offender.
This reversal aims to confuse and manipulate perceptions, making it challenging for the victim to defend themselves.

From here: It addresses a workplace scenario, but much of the advice is good for a domestic situation as well.

www.linkedin.com/pulse/6-strategies-addressing-bullymanipulator-darvo-jo-banks-9gtfe/

Lots of good advice above.

my tuppence worth: she has no ‘nice’ side. Her aim, when she’s being ‘nice’ is to draw you in and to destabilise you and to make you question yourself. She’s using both the ‘nice’ and ‘nasty’ sides to keep you off balance so she can more effectively control you and your behaviour. Of course there are no ‘nice’ or ‘nasty’ sides, it’s all her manipulative self.

You’ve diagnosed your mother with victim narcissist disorder. I’ve not heard of this and I have no mental health expertise. If you’ve read enough to feel competent to identify this disorder, then you’ll also know that you can’t talk or rationalise someone out of a mental health disorder. You can only manage your own life to minimise the effects. So do that, with the support and alliance of your brother.

Find your mother somewhere to stay that isn't your home. She doesn't want to be with you, she just wants to occupy your space, hence not eating with you.

The nice parts are the lures she uses to get you alone do she can be spiteful to you. Think of the juicy apple proffered to Snow White. You've probably spent your whole life waiting for her to love you and that is the promise she dangles on front of you. She will never deliver.

Her real business is the poison inside.

Make plans with your husband to get rid of her and then evict her together.

Sending hugs and wishing you well xxx

This behaviour from your mum is screaming personality disorder (I work in mental health) there is nothing you can do to change her. What you can do is minimise contact and work on building your resilience against her attacks. Nothing you can do will ever change how she behaves all you can change is how you react to it. I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this. It is so destructive to families dealing with someone like this. Seek support for yourself and please understand it is not personal, it is how she has learnt to control her environment and those around her.
Hope she is out of your home soon and you can begin to heal.

I think you need to call her out on her behaviour instantly as it happens.

"What did you say"
"Can you repeat that"

Then tell her why it's hurtful.

This is my now exMIL. I got counseling after the last time she stayed with our family as did my then husband. He couldn't or wouldn't stand up to her to protect me or our children. And after a while I realized he has similar traits hence the "ex" part but also the stuff with his mother frankly ruined us as he couldn't navigate. So glad you have support. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent or a grandparent and it wasn't about you. You are awesome

This sounds exactly like the relationship I have with my mother. Even down to losing my dad many years ago.
I feel like the way my mother parented me and withheld emotional nurture has affected my whole life and how I deal with relationships now. The best advice I have is to go as low contact as possible.

Recently my marriage fell apart and I really needed my mum to help support me and my kids and she was literally nowhere to be seen, no word of a lie, I was in hospital because I stupidly tried to take an overdose as I was so broken from the marriage split and his domestic abuse and when I reached out to her for help with the kids, I got told me, she can't help as she in her words, had a luncheon planned with friends she following week and needed time to plan her outfit.
So I get exactly what you're going through.
You just have to make peace with the fact that your mum is never going to be the mum you want or need. Focus on other relationships that can fill that gap, and don't ever rely on her for anything. Never drop your healthy boundaries and reinforce these if she tried to cross them. And learn to live life without your mum in it as a main character.
You may need therapy. It sounds like you have a wonderfully supportive husband. Lean on friends also.
Also, it sounds weird but the other thing I do that helps is make sure I have some older female role models to turn to. So in my case that's ladies from the church. It's not the same but it does help.
And just like you've alluded to in your post, you can actually learn to be grateful they are like this. Because my mum has taught me the most amazing lesson which is how not to parent children. I have totally the opposite relationship with my kids. I will always be there for them. I will never ever judge them or hurt them and anything I ever have will be theirs. I nurture them and love them and I want them to never feel alone in this world like I have for my whole life.
It's not easy but you can have a narcissistic mother and be very low contact. She won't like it. In fact she'll hate it.but you do you. As she's only ever done her. X

I can't help thinking you've brought this on yourself . Your brother said no so why on earth did you let her stay . She needs to go and you need to limit contact or Nc

My mother was exactly the same. Outside the home she was kind, vivacious, sympathetic - everyone adored her. Inside, she was toxic. My dad and I lived a miserable, stressful life with her endless tantrums and criticism.
As others have said, the kind and generous things she does just draw you in so she can dump all her toxicity on you. I often used to feel that my mother loved the moment where she could burst my bubble and the power she felt when my lower lip trembled and my disappointment showed.

You will never receive love and respect from her because it just isn't in her sadly. Try to believe that it isn't your fault. Whatever you did/do will make no difference because it's her problem, not yours.
You have been kind enough to have her to stay for months and she has just taken it as her right. Sadly that's a narcissist for you. They don't understand that other people have feelings and lives of their own. To them other people, whoever they are, are just accessories to their lives on whom they project motives and behaviours according to their own hidden agendas.
You will never change her. She will never understand how she affects you or even care.

You must do whatever you think necessary to protect yourself. If that means getting rid of her - do it. If (as I suspect) you feel you must "do your duty by her" and keep her til her house is ready - well do that but bearing in mind whichever you choose is for your peace of mind and not hers.
Narcissists are very good at looking after number one so she will be fine whatever you decide. Never let her tug at your heartstrings when she's old and lonely because it will all be staged.
Please don't feel guilty. That's the worst thing about living with these people. She may be your mother, but she hasn't really been a proper mother - loving, caring and kind, has she? So why do you feel you must be the perfect dutiful daughter? And why does a person have to be perfect for their parent to love them? You sound like such a lovely person and it just shows how abnormal she must be to treat you so meanly.
Whatever calumny she may try and spread about you when you don't do what she wants, your most important people - your husband and children and brother - know the truth.

As others have said, she won't change. Can't change. So you must plan the rest of your life with that in mind.

Other people will see the truth - I wouldn't worry about what she says to members of the family or her friends - they will know you, and her. X

It's sad how common this type of mother/daughter relationship is. If you can't get her out of your life the only way to be OK in the relationship is to go 'grey rock'. Once you accept that it'll always be like this and it's just the way she is it really takes the emotional heat out of it. There've been a lifetime of snipey comments all aimed, however slyly and indirectly, at making you feel bad about yourself. When you accept that it's just more of the same, then it's just words. When sufficiently detached, you might actually start to find the manipulations and attention seeking quite funny! It's hard to understand why they do it - it seems like such a waste of effort. The expression 'misery loves company' goes a long way to explain it. If you feel shit about something, being consoled by someone going through the same thing is natural. The toxic version of that is making someone feel bad about themselves so that you aren't the only one with low self esteem. Society has a hand in this. Nowadays we're not so hung up on the insistence that girls must always be 'sugar and spice', but the previous generation of women were under far more pressure to always be nice, virtuous and self sacrificing. But no-one is 100% nice so it becomes toxic when someone can never admit that they want something for their own sake.

Thank you, I feel you are 100% correct x

I take your point but I feel responsible for her in some way, especially sonce my dad’s death and I just didn’t want her to feel she was alone and nobody cared. I care very much but I struggle to deal with her issues, I can see now that I need to take a step back, ive spent 40years trying to make her happy and she never ever will be, I see that now and It makes me sad.

I am so so sorry for what you have been through and completely empathise with you. You sound like you have learned so much and I to follow your lead. Your children as so lucky to have such a supportive Mum xx

@Helpmeout99 Sorry but why is she still in your house after 5 months if she was just waiting to move?? why did you allow her to move in in the first place??? give her a date to move out in two weeks and tell her she has to leave by then! dont take any more shit from her and block her after she has left! she does not get to treat you like this!!!

Interesting.

I'd put my parents on an information diet a long time ago. Then my dad died, he wasn't very nice and I've become quite numb about my mum.

So I also look for other older woman role models.
I am honest with friends that my parents aren't that great.
I step up and support in a practical way.
Controversial but I often thing of our relationship as a money bet, I help for X years in the hope of an inheritance payout. At the moment I think she's got ten years and the pot is roughly £600k. I'm not proud of it, I'd rather it wasn't like this but it helps on the harder days.

It's easier as my kids get to teen years and it triggers memories which are quite accurate. I compare and contrast comments or actions and how much a better parent I am.

My mum is exactly like this and I had to go minimal contact (special events only). My life is so much better now and I feel I am healing as a person without her in my thoughts constantly. I occasionally have really horrible nightmares about her but generally she is not someone I think about anymore. The anxiety she gave me around getting things wrong will probably stick with me forever though.

You need to get her out of your house now!
Find a cheap Airbnb and book her in. Tell her you’ll see her again when she acknowledges how much she has hurt you.

Good luck! x

This is a great realisation and one that will take time to grieve. Would you consider a counsellor? They can help you unpack these feelings. I have a very similar situation with my mother.. the DARVO concept someone mentioned earlier is her to a T! This thread has been very enlightening.. it's so hard to see the issue when you're in the thick of it. Good luck OP, you can find a way through.. which will definitely mean no more mum in your space!

It's not the same.

But I have a grandma (maternal grandma) like this, and I tried for years and years to be good enough for her.

I have no contact with her now because like your mum she belittles me, insults me and she has a golden balls grandson (my brother)

The last straw for me was when none of them told me my grandad had cancer, I found out through my paternal Uncle who's like my dad, I reached out. My brother then went travelling leaving them both struggling. I decided to reach out again, 6 months pregnant (high risk) I ended up doing all sorts for her, and also had a toddler in tow. Anyway. As soon as my brother came back from travelling she discarded me.

Couldn't understand why I never let her meet my second born child. But I'd done everything I could for this woman who hated me.

There's a lot more history!

She shamed my mother (her own daughter) for ending her life despite my mum been utterly traumatised by her mother from her childhood.

I reached out again in covid, I got I'm OK and nothing more. Since then I've had a MH breakdown, a divorce etc and she's never picked the phone up once.

I already know that when she passes away I will not mourn her. I mourned what we could have had 16 years ago.

You need your mum out of your house, and then create boundaries with her, even if that means cutting her out completely.

She gaslights you each time she is 'nice' to you, she makes you think it's in your head. It isn't.

I've been there with the overdoses. I hope you're getting the help you so desperately need. Thinking of you.

So much of your message resonates with me. It’s so hard when your biggest critic is your Mum, people have no idea what it’s like. I’m one of four daughters and my mum is a lovely woman in many ways, but when she’s in the bad place she is as vicious as a snake and will wait for you to say something she doesn’t like and then that’s it - the whole conversation become about that. My husband hears me for hours on the phone saying ‘no, mum, I didn’t say that!’. The conversation only ends when she feigns illness or headaches and slams the phone down.

She is mostly only like this with me. I’m the weaker of the pack and I take more BS. I try not to and find now corresponding mostly by text and occasional phone calls it can be managed. I don’t want to go NC as I don’t want to lose my mum, but sometimes it’s incredibly painful for weeks on end.

My older sister is mentally unstable and it’s apparent now that my mum has lumped us together in her mind, especially as she has walked away from our whole family. This is insane as I was my sisters dog she kicked and we are literal chalk and cheese. But she is able to think less of me, I think, by the grouping and justifies her behaviour and feelings towards me? No idea.

I don’t think the OP needs counselling, but there are some great books available re narcissistic and emotionally immature parents.
best of luck. It’s the absolute worst and nothing to do with you.