My mum is the biggest conflict in my life-i dont know where to go from here

[Helpmeout99]

Where to start? I am in my mid 40s with a good job, 3 fantastic children and a husband I have been with since my teens who is my best friend and loves me to bits. We have a good life and great relationship and I feel blessed for that.
Now to the issue… my Mum. My Mum is a very intelligent woman who can be very nice and to all outsiders would seem lovely but she has always been a very controlling and critical woman behind closed doors and has had many bust ups with myself and older brother over the years. She used to write us awful letters when we displeased her, my husband recently found some and burned them as he didnt want me to re read them. It always follows the same pattern of her being nice, helpful with the children etc then if we dare to disagree with her on anything she will blow up, it is always nasty comments that she knows will cause the most hurt. My brother has little to do with her and we both suspect she has a personality disorder- namely victim narcissistic disorder. She will never ever accept she does any wrong, gaslights constantly and fires about how we could treat her so badly! In the past this has led to me always apologising just to make things right and as a result i am an anxious people pleaser. She will the accept apology and be overly lovely- trying to buy affection with money, of which she has plenty.
my dad passed away a long time ago and although he loved her very much i suspect he was aware that she had issues as he was the only one who could stop her when she was at her most vicious. My brother and I both got an inheritance from my dad and this is frequently used against us … ie it paid for the extension and all she has done for us etc etc.
in recent years I have tried many times to talk to my mum as an adult about this behaviour but she completely denies it or accuses me of hating her and constantly bringing up the past, I do bring up things she has said as they hurt so much but she will never apologise and always puts herself in victim mode. She is currently staying in our spare room while waiting to move, brother refused to have her, and things are awful. She criticises everything and makes out she doesn’t and has no problems being vile to me when I end up getting frustrated and snapping. She ensure to only be like this when im alone with her, infront of my husband she is all sweetness and light. It came tp a head last week and my husband made everyone a cuppa and spoke to her about how her “fun comments” as she calls them affect me. He told her to stop with the nasty comments but she just repeated as always how difficult i am and how he must find the same and she feels sorry for him living with me! This did not go down well and that was her aim. My children are all aware of how manipulative she is- everything is a competition to her about why she is the best but also the most hard done by.
i currently feel uncomfortable in my own home and am counting down the days to her leaving.
I want to have a relationship with her as I love the nice side of her but the other side reduces me to a wreck. Everyone things she is wonderful and will tell me how lucky I am to have such a lovely Mum. How do I navigate this relationship?
I have already decided minimum contact once she is gone but It hurts my heart when I hear her tell my Uncle and her friends how awful and difficult I am and how badly I treat her when all she tries to do it help. All I want is a normal relationship like the wonderful one I have with my children. I could never contemplate treating them like this.
where do I go from here and how do I stop her getting under my skin the way she does? She is Jekyl and Hyde and I am constantly trying to navigate this very unstable and unhealthy relationship.
sorry for the long post but I could provide examples of behaviours that go one for days.

OP my mother died 4 yrs ago but could have been the same woman as your mother, for the most part. Incredibly clever but an enmeshed, narcissistic mother. There's even YouTube videos on this. I can't believe it took me until my 40s to find out. We actually went no contact with her for a year, which was probably one of the quietest and best things to have done. But then she became terminally ill and I really had to step back into the ring and support her, so I did. What happened with us, was when my dad died, she lost a lot of her influence because he was no longer there to enable and back her up. So it surprised me reading how your dad is gone and yet she still has this stronghold.

What is important to remember is you can't change her and you can't reason with her. She thinks she is right in everything. The only thing you can change is your response to her. Sometimes that is giving her the cold shoulder, sometimes it is just not reacting at all. Good luck, I really empathize.

Your mother is emotionally unsafe regardless of the help she gives you. My mother can be lovely she will do anything practically to help me, she will cancel plans to look after DC, help out any way she can if I needed it etc but will always use it against me later. Just the other week she was helping with DD and I didn’t agree with her on something and her words were “Why do you treat me like this, I’m here helping out and just cleaned the kitchen for you”. I didn’t ask her to clean my kitchen but it was used to make me feel guilty for calling her out because “helped” me with something. It’s manipulation and I don’t even think mine realises she’s doing it. It’s exactly why rely on her for very little now. To me there’s nothing worse than someone throwing stuff they’ve done back in my face. I would rather struggle alone than accept her help.

This is exactly the kind of thing I experience constantly- the manipulation is wild x

These responses are so incredibly helpful, what kind, lovely people you all are. I need to take action and step far away from her both physically and mentally x

You have to evict her pronto & never let her over the threshold again OP.

If it helps, think about what advice you would give a friend in the same situation. You deserve better than this, and you don’t have to put up with someone treating you badly just because they’re related to you. Good luck! Lean on your husband and friends, and remind yourself over and over that you are not the problem!

Please follow the excellent advice to remove her from your home asap.

For your children as much as anything.
Her toxicity will affect them.
They will be absorbing the stress and sour atmosphere she creates.

Children absorb and feel even if they don't understand.

It creates anxiety in later life.
Get her out.

This describes my mother and I really, really feel for you. Has she ever been diagnosed with anxiety or depression? Anti anxiety meds helped.

also repeating what she says back to her as if it’s a question sometimes snaps her out it. And for my own MH getting to a place where I genuinely did not need her approval.

it’s definitely not your fault.

Without a doubt she has serious anxiety issues and has many times said she will see GP then backs out and blames circumstances- there is always a reason and life is always harder for her!
im sure there is some depression too but again she would never seek help as that is to admit she is not perfect. She has never been happy in her life, I spent my childhood watching every mood swing and trying to make her happy, the truth is she will never be happy.
i truly need to reach a place where her validation is not needed for me to feel safe.
I am so sorry you have been through this too x

I’ve been through this, it can be isolating but you have the support of myself and others on here. I’m just reading through all the posts.

I can relate a lot to the strings attached and having hold over people. I am now no contact with my mum, after decades of low contact. The final straw was her constant attack and how she’d do it around my daughter. Shows no boundaries and utter disrespect. I got a letter from her recently in response to mine, telling me how much she’s done for me and that she’s sorry for not meeting my high expectations. I thought about throwing this away but I wrote back saying I have normal expectations and that all parents have parental responsibility. To this day she is living in a delusion (because I believe strongly that she has narcissistic personality disorder) and can’t see I just wanted some basic respect. It’s so hard dealing with people like this. I’m following this thread and with you all on the way. P.S sorry about the bold font!

Honestly it is helping so so much and making me feel so validated x

Thank you so much, our experiences sound so similar!! So hard to deal with, the guilt and manipulation is so hard xx

You’re welcome and thanks also for your posts. Wish I could give advice other than my usual “listen to dr Ramani.” I just wanted to say that I get it.

You have described my mother in every detail! Mine is exactly as you describe yours and has been for as long as I can remember. She can be nice sometimes and then will turn nasty and highly critical. She is extremely controlling and never admits to being wrong. I unfortunately have a dad who is similarly narcissistic and egocentric. I am an only child so it's generally just me dealing with this. Complaining or raising concerns to my mother about how her behaviour makes me feel is utterly pointless, she views this as weakness (a trigger for her) which only causes her to lash out more and be even more critical ('you are too sensitive/weak/I'm sick of your behaviour to me etc'). I pity her, and consider what has lead her to be this way. This helps me cope. I have had therapy in the past which also helped. Day to day, I manage by strictly policing what I tell her about my/our life, so as to avoid ammunition. This results in often silly scenarios where I don't feel I can be completely honest/upfront with her unless I want an avalanche of criticism. I try to just enjoy the nice side of her when it's present and take the rest with a huge pinch of salt. I have a very supportive husband luckily who keeps me sane when it gets hard!

One of 2 ways.
No contact - and don't care what nonsense she tells others - who don't believe her and knows what she's like.

Or very strong boundaries.

These are your only options.

our situations sound very similar, I am constantly told im over sensitive, difficult, impossible etc when all I want is basic respect and boundaries. I have no issues with any other relationship in my life but as you say raising concerns is pointless, my mum cannot accept any perceived criticism in amy way. My Mum will push every boundary I have, even to the point where I will ask please dont give that to our dog its not good for him and she will ingnore and do it anyway, it’s exhausting!
I absolutely relate to the ridiculous situation of not being able to tell her things because of how I know she will react, even to the point I had a spa day recently with my best friend of 30 years and I didn’t tell her because she things massages are disgusting 🙄
In the past I would even try and only have conversations I know she would approve off amd agree with everything but I have not done this for years and as a result she kicks off more about me having my own personality and thoughts, she wants me to be an extension of her, but there is nothing I want less. She is a very miserable person and has to either be the hero who is deemed to be helping everyone of the victim who we should all feel sorry for. She still goes on about how sad people were for her when I had a child as a teenager, this child is now 26 and a Doctor and all around wonderful human who we could not be more proud of.
Apologies for the long reply, I am so sorry you deal with this too, it must be so hard as an only child to not have a sibling to vent to.

@Helpmeout99 honestly, you could have written the ChatGPT version of my life before going NC and then moving to very low contact.

I have read all your responses, but not had time to read all the contributions from others on MN so apologies if I repeat. First off though, well done for the 5 months of living with this. The tension in your household must be extreme.

Second, you won't be able to avoid the conflict indefinitely - sadly. In my case it blew up monumentally, in others people have managed to let it drift. But my advice would be to go NC or very low contact for 6 to 12 months and if you can go through some counselling to support you make the break then I would absolutely recommend it. It is heartbreaking. It hurts and it takes a long time to undo all the conditioning and question the gaslighting. 12 years on I still find myself periodically dragged back into the drama cycle.

But what you are experiencing is not unique. It is not you or your beautiful family. You are not responsible for your Mother's mental health or the causes of her actions. How she is behaving in your own home is not acceptable and you wouldn't tolerate it from friends, a partner or a child. The energy you are committing to propping her up is taking it away from the people who matter most.

For me, the final straw was not wanting to drag my family into someone else's problems. What is the phrase? Not my circus, not my monkeys. I needed to be able to role model and build healthy relationships away from my M for my children's sake.

This won't go away (I posted not so long ago about old age and mother issues) but you can learn to create boundaries and hold yourself to account for maintaining them. And it will continue to hurt. But - over time - the hurty bits get less frequent and the bits in-between are good. Just don't lose sight of yourself in the process.

Someone recommended the Out of the FOG website to me (recc came from here). It is good. Other things I have found helpful are (a) counselling first and foremost (b) books on toxic mothers and (c) talking about it. In terms of the latter not everyone will understand. Your wider family may be difficult although it sounds like your brother is well aware so that might be a good place to start along with your DH. But you will find friends who are in a similar position. The issue is we are so conditioned to never question our Mother's. I remember being told I was being ridiculous as she was my only Mum. I had to point out I was her only daughter and she had already lost her only DH as he divorced her. (Ironically, DH married again to the most wonderful SM and I have 2 Mum's... plus a great MIL). Anyway I digress. The issue is we are so conditioned to have perfect Mother - daughter relationships that we rarely tell people when they aren't functional. Choose who you talk to wisely but talk. Don't hold it all in. We get you. We understand you. And it is not you.

That's a beautiful post @Lastknownaddress
I'm sorry such a thoughtful, kind, gracious post has come from such a painful relationship. I hope the way you've put things can resonate with @Helpmeout99

Two things stick out for me from this post.

Firstly how much she loves having the children. Hmm. How long will it be, I wonder, before she starts dripping poison about you into their ears?

Secondly, the "your dad always said how difficult and stroppy you were" comment. There's only one answer to that and it is: "Oh that's funny, he always used to say the same about you, Mum".

Thank you so much for your reply, all you have said resonates so much with me and I am wholeheartedly going to take all the wonderful advice I have been given x

Look up secondary gain. There are people (mostly those with personality disorders, but not exclusively) for whom staying 'ill' provides more benefits than working on their problems. For example the person who is dependent on others, but actually lives a life completely free of responsibility or anything they dont want to do. Sometimes people are very aware that they do this, but often it is subconscious. Whatever the reason, it is not helpful for the people around them to enable them or be trapped in a cycle that harms you in some way - the toll that this takes on MH is enormous. She is making choices. She is free to do that. You are free not to be able to fill the gaps in her life, or accept bad behaviour from her whatever excuse (and they are excuses not reasons) that she gives.

Thank you so much, I will definitely look it up xx

My ex had 2 grown up daughter in their 20s. He was no father! He had a Volatile marriage with their mum and left them as kids. The youngest returned at 19 thinking he would be her daddy! He wasn't. He leant on her. He took a loan out in the eldest name and decided On the day her child was born to tell her he couldn't pay her back.

He's had thousands of pounds in good jobs over the last 4 years since he did that and not once has he ever paid her back. A while ago she half tried to give him a chance and he asked for money several times saying he had no food etc. He calls her all the names under the sun to me and thinks the sun shines out of his youngest backside because she allows him to doss on her sofa and they smoke weed together and tear the family to shreds

My opinion is that some people never should have been parents. Trust your gut and how other people speak to you. How do others respond to you? Because unfortunately these people grind you down so there's that little bit of self doubt. But you know from the way your brother also feels its not just you. She sounds hideous! But I understand you want a bond with her because she's "mum" you need to try and really step back away. There's nothing normal about sending cruel letters to your adult children.

My mum is exactly the same as this. I honestly tried and tried and tried over the years to be the best daughter I could be. But actually I had to go no contact. She isn't capable of rational discussion and is never going to change