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Original poster

men and sex

102 replies

endlessnonsense · 06/08/2024 09:12

I have NC for this. I read a piece in the Irish Times yesterday (won't link to it as it is subscriber only), the gist of it was that the woman has spent years having regular sex with her husband because he wanted it, to "keep the peace etc", not because she particularly wanted it, although she wasn't saying it wasn't consented to. She didn't dislike sex, didn't feel violated etc, just pointed out that many times she just went along with the sex without particularly wanting it. She called it "consensual but unwanted" sex.

I know that this will of course resonate with millions of women throughout the world, and my point is not exactly the same one but linked. I am in my 60s, have been married for many years. I am starting to wonder whether all men are as "absolutely basic" about sex as my DH. Essentially, if we have had sex in the past few days, he is a lovely man, calls me endearments, is kind and friendly etc etc. If a week or more goes by without sex he starts to become more and more silent, gets short with me, and if it goes on a bit longer, becomes outright rude, such as just ignoring me when I talk to him, or being slightly disrespectful in front of other people. Have sex again and he's all sweetness and light.

I don't dislike sex at all, although like most people I don't always feel like it (and like many women I will often go along with it as long as I don't feel actively averse to it in the moment). It's not the going-along-with-sex per se that is bothering me the most. It is the complete simplistic obviousness of his behaviour, which makes me feel increasingly annoyed with him. Sex=nice man, no sex=rude man. Such a black and while situation. It seems so unsubtle, unnuanced, just really stupid to be honest. And he is not a stupid man.

Is it all men or just him?

OP posts:
DuskandDawn · 06/08/2024 22:55

Apparently I'm kind of like this. When I've had sex I'm far more patient, chilled and bubbly. It's only something that's been pointed out to me recently. However, I do know the world is a brighter place when I've had sex. That said, I've declined sex when I thought the other person wasn't as into it as me. I only want consenting enthusiastic sex. Not obligatory sex. I'm female.

SunflowersMidwinter · 06/08/2024 23:02

Following as imteresting. Going to add not all men are like this

HollyKnight · 07/08/2024 04:27

There's a saying about how women need to feel close to their partner to have sex but men need sex to feel close to their partner. I think the longer men don't have sex with their partners, the more distant they feel from that partner. And it is that "distance" that eventually results in annoyance, impatience, resentment (and even affairs when things get really bad) etc.

Obviously NAMALT and NAWALT.

Bobbotgegrinch · 07/08/2024 12:57

I think for a lot of men, (myself included), sex is how they reassure themselves that their partner still loves them, still finds them attractive, that they still have that intimacy.

DP and I have had conversations about this a lot over the years, as we've got quite mismatched sex drives. She gets validation from me that I love her in lots of different ways. I give her and her friends a lift home from town at 3am. I get the spider from the bathroom. I make her a cup of coffee. I put a hand on her back as I squeeze past just to touch her. I buy her a little gift for no particular reason. All of these things are a little reminder and demonstration that I love her.

It doesn't work the other way. Part of that is that there just aren't as many of them. Men are taught to be self reliant, that it's weak to need others. So I don't want to be picked up at 3am, I'll walk home. I'll deal with the moth flying round the light, even though they freak me the fuck out. I don't really have "stuff", so don't get as many gifts etc.

But also, when these little demonstrations of love do happen, they don't have the same effect on me. I understand that that's what they are, but for some reason they don't provide the same reassurance. Sex, on the other hand does.

So when we don't have sex for a while, I start to spiral. Does she still fancy me, have I upset her in some way and I haven't realised, are we falling apart?

I'm so laid back I'm horizontal, so I don't show it visibly, but I start struggling to sleep. Small annoyances that usually I just couldn't care about start niggling at me, I stop trying to initiate because I don't want to be rejected again, and unconsciously I stop being so affectionate.

When the affection stops she usually notices, and asks what's wrong. I'll make up stuff about work stress, tiredness, and throw in the lack of sex thing almost as an afterthought.

That's how it used to work anyway. We've gotten a lot better about talking about it directly these days. She'll make more of an effort to set other stuff aside for a while and focus on sex, and we'll be good again.

LouH5 · 07/08/2024 13:02

So when we don't have sex for a while, I start to spiral. Does she still fancy me, have I upset her in some way and I haven't realised, are we falling apart?

This!

I am a woman and feel this way sometimes. We have sex about once or twice a week but if it ever gets longer than that I go into mild panic mode, and wonder if my boyfriend doesn’t fancy me, have I done something wrong, and my behaviour may change a little because I’m worried. Maybe the men discussed in the original post are feeling this in their own kind of way?

Its worth also adding my boyfriend knows how I feel, we’ve had a lot of chats around my unnecessary insecurities, he’s brilliant etc etc, and I know he fancies the pants off me, but I get in my own head sometimes!

DowngradedToATropicalStorm · 07/08/2024 13:05

endlessnonsense · 06/08/2024 20:27

He is certainly intelligent in the strict "IQ" way. And he doesn't pressure me to have any particular "kind" of sex, as in I am up for all the kinds of sex he likes (a wide variety), and he is very good at it. But life sometimes gets in the way and I might have a period of feeling tired, or distracted, uninterested, anxious, whatever. And he will become increasingly cold and rude, in absolutely direct proportion to how long it has been since we last "did it".

It just annoys me that it is so bloody basic and predictable: ie
first few days after sex=calling me "love" and apparently enjoying my company above anything else, laughing and animated;
one week=rarely smiling, talking less;
ten days=ignoring me when I chat about general things and rather messaging people on his phone when I talk;
two weeks=ignoring everything I say except essential life arrangement stuff and sounding exasperated all the time;
three weeks=interrupting me in front of other people and failing to do things I ask for like picking up something from the shop.

It's almost comedic how predictable it is. It is getting my goat, after more than 20 years!

I would be out the door the day this realisation dawned.

You are an object only.

Olympicfatigued · 07/08/2024 13:06

My husband does not behave like this. He is never emotionally manipulative or abusive. He has never emotionally pressured me into having sex with him in nearly 30 years together.

2AND2GC · 07/08/2024 13:14

My husband is not like this.

He's largely very loving towards me. 95% of the time.

However he's entirely capable of having sex with me and then half an hour later nagging me about some minor thing and this takes my breath away. I think 'I've just had sex with you and you're talking to me about (eg) leaving the bathroom cabinet door open (or whatever).

If I've gone the full nine yards - giving him the time of his life (when I'm not actually that bothered) - I'd like to be treated like a princess for the rest of the day! 😂

Bestyearever2024 · 07/08/2024 13:21

endlessnonsense · 06/08/2024 21:11

I don't think it's that weird that I tolerate it, even in purely transactional terms I get far more out of the marriage than the cost of the "effort" to have sex when I don't particularly feel like it (which I imagine to be the case for many women), and also I do love him. I just find it, well, weird, that he is so predictable and uncomplicated/unsophisticated, in this matter! When he is not like that in other spheres of life.

I think that being married to someone who isn't in tune with how he's treating me, would give me the ick, big time

Starlight1979 · 07/08/2024 13:30

Sorry OP but in amongst your post based on an article in a newspaper, this stood out to me more than anything:

I am starting to wonder whether all men are as "absolutely basic" about sex as my DH. Essentially, if we have had sex in the past few days, he is a lovely man, calls me endearments, is kind and friendly etc etc. If a week or more goes by without sex he starts to become more and more silent, gets short with me, and if it goes on a bit longer, becomes outright rude, such as just ignoring me when I talk to him, or being slightly disrespectful in front of other people. Have sex again and he's all sweetness and light.

This is not normal. And not ok.

Me and DP both have high sex drives so it's rarely a case of him wanting it and me not wanting it however if I didn't want to have sex - or couldn't - for any reason, his behaviour wouldn't change towards me in the slightest! He disrespects you in front of people because you haven't had sex with him....???

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 07/08/2024 13:37

Echoing what some other female posters have written, I'm like this, although not to the point where I'm being actively rude. But I feel disconnected and indifferent to a partner I'm not having sex with. It's an unconscious thing and it's not something I even realised about myself until my late 30s.

Sex is really important to me in a relationship, in fact it's the most important benefit for me.

It's interesting OP that you say your DH is good at sex - it's been my experience personally that people who are good at sex, who are very giving to their partners, are more prone to this sort of behaviour pattern than those who are indifferent and/or crap in bed.

Crushed23 · 07/08/2024 13:41

It’s a form of coercion.

It took me a long time to realise that about my last relationship (with help from Mumsnet!), but when I did, I made peace with the breakup quickly and now feel eternally grateful that I am not having sex I don’t want to have.

CheerfulYank · 07/08/2024 13:43

I think most humans crave touch, and most women have been socialized to be touchy with other people in ways that aren’t aggressive or sexual. It’s more normal for us to just casually touch other women, to hug our friends, etc. But for many generations (at least in most cultures) that wasn’t the case with men. Touch was either sexual or aggressive (i.e. sports or fighting).

So I think for many men, sex feels like the “allowed” way to touch and be touched by other humans, and they’re looking for that connection.

But also I haven’t slept yet because I just got done with work at 6:30 in the morning and I’m very tired and probably babbling 😂

The short answer for me personally is that my husband isn’t cold or mean to me when we haven’t had sex in awhile, but as others have said we do both feel less connected and I think that leads to more tension.

Newgirls · 07/08/2024 13:44

I think you are spot on. It’s a reminder that beneath the degrees, jobs, social skills we are all quite animal basic sometimes. I think best we can hope for is compatability

Hummingbirdie · 07/08/2024 13:44

OP my husband is just as you have described

Raasclaat · 07/08/2024 14:01

Sorry but every time I see this thread title I'm reminded of Toast's "Man of Sex"

TheNuthatch · 07/08/2024 14:17

That's really horrible op. I'm younger than you, but dh and I have been married for a long time. I think sex and intimacy is really important in a relationship, but there are periods in life where it takes a back seat, eg having young children or through ill health. My dh would probably feel less happy without sex, so do I, but it's not excuse for treating you badly.
I think your dh knows exactly what he's doing to you. Insulting you infront of others is definitely a choice he is making. Maybe you could tell him that treating you badly and disrespecting you infront of other will not work from now on? Don't reward his horrible behaviour and tell him that you only want sex when he is treating you how a husband should treat his wife.

greenwoodentablelegs · 07/08/2024 15:48

I love how this thread is

post - urgh your man is horrid op dump him!

post - I am like that, can’t help it, I need sex to feel good, female poster

post - urgh ! My ex was like this dump him!

post- yeah female poster and I am the same, I need regular sex.

so I think it’s a person thing but not a man / woman thing. So the luckiest ones found someone else happy to scratch their itch.

kkloo · 07/08/2024 17:01

Bobbotgegrinch · 07/08/2024 12:57

I think for a lot of men, (myself included), sex is how they reassure themselves that their partner still loves them, still finds them attractive, that they still have that intimacy.

DP and I have had conversations about this a lot over the years, as we've got quite mismatched sex drives. She gets validation from me that I love her in lots of different ways. I give her and her friends a lift home from town at 3am. I get the spider from the bathroom. I make her a cup of coffee. I put a hand on her back as I squeeze past just to touch her. I buy her a little gift for no particular reason. All of these things are a little reminder and demonstration that I love her.

It doesn't work the other way. Part of that is that there just aren't as many of them. Men are taught to be self reliant, that it's weak to need others. So I don't want to be picked up at 3am, I'll walk home. I'll deal with the moth flying round the light, even though they freak me the fuck out. I don't really have "stuff", so don't get as many gifts etc.

But also, when these little demonstrations of love do happen, they don't have the same effect on me. I understand that that's what they are, but for some reason they don't provide the same reassurance. Sex, on the other hand does.

So when we don't have sex for a while, I start to spiral. Does she still fancy me, have I upset her in some way and I haven't realised, are we falling apart?

I'm so laid back I'm horizontal, so I don't show it visibly, but I start struggling to sleep. Small annoyances that usually I just couldn't care about start niggling at me, I stop trying to initiate because I don't want to be rejected again, and unconsciously I stop being so affectionate.

When the affection stops she usually notices, and asks what's wrong. I'll make up stuff about work stress, tiredness, and throw in the lack of sex thing almost as an afterthought.

That's how it used to work anyway. We've gotten a lot better about talking about it directly these days. She'll make more of an effort to set other stuff aside for a while and focus on sex, and we'll be good again.

I think a lot of men are like that, but it can cause major problems if the woman loses her libido for a period of time such as after having a baby.

Then the woman gets painted as the one with the problem who needs to be fixed when really it's the man. A postpartum woman with no libido is not broken but is often seen as such and told she needs help.

It's a lot harder (or impossible) for someone to magic up a libido when their body has shut it down due to childbirth or hormonal issues etc, than it would be for a man to work on his self esteem and learn to be able to cope if the sex was gone for a period of time. The fact that the person ends up feeling unloved tends to make them put pressure on their partners which often leads to a permanent dead bedroom if the one with no libido ends up feeling like they have to have unwanted 'consensual' sex.

Women can be the same of course.

If you already know that you associate sex with love and spiral if you don't have it for a while then you should be working on your self esteem in case there is a longer dry spell.

There's very much an attitude of 'this is who I am' about this when people can and should be trying to work on their self esteem.

Bobbotgegrinch · 07/08/2024 17:19

kkloo · 07/08/2024 17:01

I think a lot of men are like that, but it can cause major problems if the woman loses her libido for a period of time such as after having a baby.

Then the woman gets painted as the one with the problem who needs to be fixed when really it's the man. A postpartum woman with no libido is not broken but is often seen as such and told she needs help.

It's a lot harder (or impossible) for someone to magic up a libido when their body has shut it down due to childbirth or hormonal issues etc, than it would be for a man to work on his self esteem and learn to be able to cope if the sex was gone for a period of time. The fact that the person ends up feeling unloved tends to make them put pressure on their partners which often leads to a permanent dead bedroom if the one with no libido ends up feeling like they have to have unwanted 'consensual' sex.

Women can be the same of course.

If you already know that you associate sex with love and spiral if you don't have it for a while then you should be working on your self esteem in case there is a longer dry spell.

There's very much an attitude of 'this is who I am' about this when people can and should be trying to work on their self esteem.

Show quote history

There's been two long periods where me and DP didn't have sex. After DD was born, and during a health issue for DP, both lasted around a year. Neither of those times were a problem for me**, because I knew there was an underlying reason for it.

The second time was actually longer than it needed to be, due to me. I'd spent so long looking after DP that I struggled to stop seeing her as someone "breakable".

** I completely understand that this isn't the experience of a lot of women with their partners after a baby is born

LightSpeeds · 07/08/2024 17:56

endlessnonsense · 06/08/2024 20:27

He is certainly intelligent in the strict "IQ" way. And he doesn't pressure me to have any particular "kind" of sex, as in I am up for all the kinds of sex he likes (a wide variety), and he is very good at it. But life sometimes gets in the way and I might have a period of feeling tired, or distracted, uninterested, anxious, whatever. And he will become increasingly cold and rude, in absolutely direct proportion to how long it has been since we last "did it".

It just annoys me that it is so bloody basic and predictable: ie
first few days after sex=calling me "love" and apparently enjoying my company above anything else, laughing and animated;
one week=rarely smiling, talking less;
ten days=ignoring me when I chat about general things and rather messaging people on his phone when I talk;
two weeks=ignoring everything I say except essential life arrangement stuff and sounding exasperated all the time;
three weeks=interrupting me in front of other people and failing to do things I ask for like picking up something from the shop.

It's almost comedic how predictable it is. It is getting my goat, after more than 20 years!

I'm surprised you think this worsening behaviour is 'entirely unconscious'!

It sounds like a punishment to me.

trakehner · 07/08/2024 18:12

My ex-partner was like this and ultimately it contributed to me getting the ick completely. He would be lovely for a few days after sex, buying flowers, cooking my favourite meals, lots of compliments etc so in the early years/honeymoon period when we were having lots of sex he seemed really rather wonderful!

Sadly as time progressed, and life events reared their ugly head (multiple bereavements and illnesses in my close family, peri-menopause and some gynae issues for me) sometimes I just didn't feel in the mood anymore. It became apparent quite quickly that he would sulk after about a week of no sex, then become miserable and dejected (sex is the only way to make him feel loved apparently! No matter how many kind, thoughtful and generous things I did for him it was never enough, if it wasn't sex). The more he sulked and was "cool" with me, the more revolting I found him until I couldn't even stomach kissing him anymore, let alone anything else.

We finally split 6 months ago after 14 years. It's sad because he's not a bad person, just the sex sulking thing was impossible and there was no way back. I feel so relieved, like a weight lifted from my shoulders. I'm sure he's having a whale of a time on Tinder, feeling "appreciated" in the way that he needs at last Confused

ElleintheWoods · 07/08/2024 20:39

Isn't everyone happy after sex, male or female? Not if they actively dislike it/ aren't that interested obviously.

I'm definitely sweetness and light after sex for a couple of days. Can be grumpy without it. It's not to do with the sex per se, but everyday worries can get you down, and sex is well known for of stress release that releases 'happy hormones'. It's also nice to feel loved and wanted. For me nothing is better than some physical affection, and of course people will notice when I'm happy and feel relaxed and loved by my partner.

Could be a 'love languages' thing, who knows.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 07/08/2024 22:50

I know a friend who describes exactly what you say so you are definitely not alone.

Is the reason of relevance? Is he just as grumpy if you are ill as he would be if you were just tired and not in the mood. If so this would worry me, if you were to become seriously ill and unable to have sex for a long time would he step up and look after you tenderly?

kkloo · 08/08/2024 10:16

Bobbotgegrinch · 07/08/2024 17:19

There's been two long periods where me and DP didn't have sex. After DD was born, and during a health issue for DP, both lasted around a year. Neither of those times were a problem for me**, because I knew there was an underlying reason for it.

The second time was actually longer than it needed to be, due to me. I'd spent so long looking after DP that I struggled to stop seeing her as someone "breakable".

** I completely understand that this isn't the experience of a lot of women with their partners after a baby is born

Show quote history

That's great and it's a shame that so many others don't deal with long dry spells the same way, however my point still stands because if you're spiraling after a while and struggling to sleep over it then that is very unhealthy, physically and mentally and you should work on your self esteem and insecurities.

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